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Google Has Four Separate Classes for Workers?

skinnydaddy said:
Attention all precious little snow flakes. Your not entitled to jack shit. Welcome to the world your idiot parents tried to hide from you. You do not have the social skills to make it here. Suck it up and deal with it.
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This. Times the internets to the power of lolcats.
 
well, simple solution if someone does not like their badge/class, get a better job at google. chances are they will promote from within. this crap he is spewing is just bullshit. Entitlement attitudes like this are why most similar type jobs get outsourced. As a clue for these idiots:

having a crappy job that pays the bills > no jobs to be found anywhere
 
pothb said:
Sorry, but how is this a "dirty" little secret? It's a ranking system that EVERY companies have. People get payed different for what they do and how long they've been working. This isn't dirty, this is how things should work.

Not to mention... it's not available to contractors? no shit! Contractors don't actually work for Google, they work for their company to do work for Google.
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The only people upset here are Google (and you apparently). The office I work at doesn't have a building full of people we can't talk to or can't talk about. Google does. Like I said, more power to them, but the way they are handling it makes them look bad.

Thanks for (not) reading my comments though!
 
The people who think they were justified in terminating him are full of shit.

If you ever worked at a place that conducts classified research you would know this.

Google scanning books is not fucking classified work, sure it's probably proprietary level 1 information that they aren't allowed to talk about.

The issue is he got fired for asking them about their jobs, if he asked the same person over and over that's understandable that an investigation of threat was made for an assessment. That's reasonable and understandable.

The issue is these "yellow" employees are also being treated differently, and are instructed to inform security if anyone asks about them. I find it ironic that these employees or contractors that are a security risk, don't get perks.


Jobs where you have to go above and beyond, especially clearance related jobs usually do not get you treated like a low class citizen. It's simple, because people would breach security and not care due to not getting any perks. (more probable anyway).
 
Weenis said:

If you ever worked at a place that conducts classified research you would know this.

Google scanning books is ... information that they aren't allowed to talk about.

The issue is he got fired for asking them about their jobs.

Jobs where you have to go above and beyond, especially clearance related jobs usually do not get you treated like a low class citizen. It's simple, because people would breach security and not care due to not getting any perks. (more probable anyway).
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Ok, first the italics. I removed extraneous words and did not change any meaning.
Your argument makes no sense. The way you said it makes it sound like the reason he got fired is clear as day (as it is).

Second, after the italics, these people are not those that go above and beyond. They are temps that scan books. The reason for the secrecy is the ongoing litigation combined with Google's trade secrets.
 
Modred189 said:
Ok, first the italics. I removed extraneous words and did not change any meaning.
Your argument makes no sense. The way you said it makes it sound like the reason he got fired is clear as day (as it is).

Second, after the italics, these people are not those that go above and beyond. They are temps that scan books. The reason for the secrecy is the ongoing litigation combined with Google's trade secrets.
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And not a great reason for them to FIRE someone over him being curious. Especially so when google touts themselves as "not being evil"
 
I have been a contractor for most of my career and this really does not shock me. Although i can say that the way contractors are treated varies a lot from company to company. At IBM contractors were treated as though they were all security threats and were watched very closely. We were not allowed any perks and they even went to the trouble of setting up separate mainframes for us that were not connected to the larger IBM network (this was before the Internet). We were physically separated too. We shared small offices in temporary buildings (called the "trailers") on the other side of the plant from where the people were that we had to work with. We could only enter and exit the plant from a single door and could not take our badges home with us.

At Medtronic I was initially in an over-sized cube with two other contractors. At first it was kind of handy because I could just turn around and ask for help without having to get up. Eventually they reorganized the floor and we ended up getting our own cube, although it was half the size of the employee cube. The employees called them "closets" because they were so small, but this was more humor than sympathy. We also had older computers than the employees even though we were expected to do the same work under the same deadlines. I always joked with my fellow contractors that was because we were more productive than the employees. I remember when it was announced that the entire team was getting new computers and flat screen monitors because that was the new requirement to do our job properly. I was looking forward to having the same equipment as everybody else. But when the upgrade day came I got someone's hand me downs. Better than what I had, but still one generation behind. At least we got invited to the occasional pizza lunch or milestone achievement celebration. But we weren't allowed to go to the annual employee picnic.

At a few places, like Guidant (now Boston Scientific), we were treated like normal employees for the most part. We got normal sized cubes, the same equipment as everybody else, and we even got invited to the annual picnic. Even the pay was pretty good. Their one year tenure policy for contractors sucks though, and was what led to me leaving there. "Sorry, you have been here one year, so we have to let you go."

Where I am now we are treated like second class citizens. The managers can't even tell us if we are doing a good job or not. The only way you know is if they give you your walking papers. We can't even work on a weekend or holiday unless there are other employees there to "supervise" us. We all share slightly over-sized cubes, but at least we get the same equipment as everybody else. We just can't get laptops to take home or use the company VNP to work remotely. We can't even take part in birthday celebrations and things like that.

So it's a mixed bag out there. Don't believe anybody that tells you "every company treats it's contractors like this." There's a lot of variability.
 
What I find amazing is that everyone who mentions what he signed off on in his paper work actually KNOW what he signed.... How do you know what was or was not in the paper work he signed??? I have seen many people say about paper work they signed for there work at there job which was not google, but we have NO copy of the paper work this person signed, some of which may have been drawn up for this company specifically... plus we all know how to write something so generically that it either can or is not applied to a situation given how a company views something...

The point being we don't have the paper work to scour over and make the judgements that some of you are making... some of you maybe correct and some of you maybe making asses of yourself... it all comes from making assumptions on what the paperwork specifically said.
 
Weenis said:
And not a great reason for them to FIRE someone over him being curious. Especially so when google touts themselves as "not being evil"
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WHAT are you talking about?! That's exactly what it means. In trade secret law if you do not take reasonable measures to protect your secrets they are fair game. And firing some snoopy guy with a video camera, asking people what they do seems suspect AT BEST, and AT LEAST reasonable grounds for termination, particularly when he is an employee of a subK.
 
Man I would totally be a yellow badge employee. They get to leave at 2ish and brag to their friends that they work at google. Sounds just like any other entry level job benefits wise. I bet they get paid pretty well too.
 
Morphes said:
Man I would totally be a yellow badge employee. They get to leave at 2ish and brag to their friends that they work at google. Sounds just like any other entry level job benefits wise. I bet they get paid pretty well too.
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This. I find it pretty strange how secretive they are being about it, but he really had no reason to be taping...

I'm a vendor and primarily work for msft, they treat us pretty damn good, I can't complain.
 
The guy in the video could be jealous, and the yellow badge could actually be the upperclass highly secretive. They might get perks that make skiing and Disneyland obsolete. What if they got 0cal experimental Ice Cream, trips to the Playboy Mansion, and robotic space condoms the public could only dream about...

Then nobody would be looking down on the yellow badges, the instructions on the back of the badges would make top secret sense and half of you would still be wondering what's wrong with me... but maybee I have a yellow badge :)
 
Every Tech Company that I have worked for does the same thing. How is what Google doing any different then any other Company?
 
Weenis said:
And not a great reason for them to FIRE someone over him being curious. Especially so when google touts themselves as "not being evil"
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You can clearly tell the tone of his talks with google changed once he started spewing equality BS in the email.
 
pothb said:
Fine, work at a company that treats everyone like shit regardless of what you do... if you aren't already, you should find a communist country to live in.
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I live in Canada. Close enough? I don't work for anyone so fuck all the corporate scumbags.
 
Modred189 said:
WHAT are you talking about?! That's exactly what it means. In trade secret law if you do not take reasonable measures to protect your secrets they are fair game. And firing some snoopy guy with a video camera, asking people what they do seems suspect AT BEST, and AT LEAST reasonable grounds for termination, particularly when he is an employee of a subK.
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That's not why I think they fired him, it was perhaps because he was filming the workers that google are in legal trouble for over copyright infringement.
 
Gnasher said:
There is nothing intelligent about selling your soul in exchange for a job at google.
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Really? And let's see how far you dig yourself in with this one: What does working with google have to do with Nazis? In ANY way?

And intelligent? Let's see:
- Looks good on a resume
- Notorious for paying well with good perks
- Doing work that MATTERS to millions
- On the forefront of technology, law, policy and (recently) politics

Sign me up.

Gnasher said:
That's not why I think they fired him, it was perhaps because he was filming the workers that google are in legal trouble for over copyright infringement.
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Ok, I'm glad you finally realize your initial argument made no sense, and that you actually do think they fired him for a legitimate cause.
 
J So said:
The dotcom I used to work at had a color system as well. I can't remember all of them but these are the three I do are

Red=Security
Yellow=Temp
Green=Regular employees such as stockbrokers, supervisors or management

I remember being shown a security operations center where every time someone used their badge.. and you HAD to use the badge to get into all entrances and elevators, it showed a picture of your face on one monitor and the picture they had on file for you would immediately pop up next to it.

I remember people getting into trouble for lending their badges to other people to go smoke and having them pulled into a managers office over it. This was back in 2000.
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I would be shocked at any modern corp over a few hundred employees not having a similer system. I work for a hospital with about 4000 employees, we have had a system like this for years, plus wear tracking devices where in our work area that records where we go.
 
BigBallinGPR said:
This.

I mean wow, the guy was asking for it with what he said in those emails. The "after an hour I thought that Google Security had taken this as enough" is such a snide bullshit remark. With all the class, race, task and benefits philosophical bullshit he added in in his response email as to his "out-of-the-blue" curiosity, it cracks me up. He was asking for this to happen to him guys, come on lets get real!

O, and lets take a look at the 5 possible ulterior motives behind his so-called "normal" curiosity for what his neighbors do.

Reasons 1-5. He said he was going to quit in 2-months anyway to pursue a graduate degree in philosophy.

Hmmm, read through that sentence one more time please. Does no one see his motive to make this a huge fucking deal from the get-go? I guarantee that if he had not been reprimanded for his actions so quickly, we would be reading a huge BS filled grad level philosophy project a year from now.

This guy had every intention to make this his "claim-to-fame" philosophy project once he enrolled. I have no sympathy for what happened to him. He asked for it.
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the Guy is a real life troll, simple as that. anyone stupid enough to use a video camera around a major business post 9/11 and expects to not draw negative attention, is a moron, or a RL troll.
 
siliconnerd said:
QFT. The issue isn't that the yellow badges exist, the issue is the guy got fired for talking/filming them.
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He probably got fired for obsessing that Contractors do not get the full Google benefits while at the same time, not doing his job because he was running around filming shit that had nothing to do with his project.

Big fucking deal. (Guy sounds like a whiney baby)

Colored badges to identify contractors vs employees. This seems like a good idea to me. Similiar thing in my company (They say "Visitor"). Probably standard procedure.

Companies hire contractors when a job is short term. Cheaper and easier. Companies also hire contractors as a way to get to know someone before hiring someone. Common practice that is also a good idea.
 
Whats the big deal, its the same shit as everywhere else as far as different classes of workers. The dude should seriously have thought more about what he was reporting to them about his intentions and realized the seriousness of what he was doing. His explanation sounds like he is trying to get google in trouble, he mentions key topics including race etc. It is no wonder he gets fired, what company wants to employ someone doing this sort of shit behind their back?

"can you elaborate what this personal project is?"

"I don't know enough about the situation to pursue further understanding..." then goes on about how the workers are treated unfairly. They were "people of color, who could not eat google meals or take the google shuttle, ride a google bike, or step foot anywhere else on campus" sit in the front row of a bus? Then goes on about the transition of industrial labor to informational labor and what it means "in terms of race and class".

" I saw this as a nice way to meet people who work right next to me" - he should have left it at that and he would still be employed. Possibly could have even gathered more information. Hey it's not a lie, not always best to tell the whole truth!

This is the same as everywhere else, except maybe family owned business and small companies. You think janitors get the same benefits of school teacher? Do Fast food workers get the same privileges of the COE's? Is the world unfair? Do companies strip benefits of certain classes of employees so that others can reap better pay benefits etc? This is the HEART of capitalism .

New Flash, we are a capitalistic nation and this is how it works. Author was into sociology and well understands the meaning and effects of capitalism. This only lightly touches them. Bye Bye job, good thing he is going to finish school before moving back into the real world. Yep, life is not fair thats just how it is.
 
Justintoxicated said:
New Flash, we are a capitalistic nation and this is how it works. Author was into sociology and well understands the meaning and effects of capitalism. This only lightly touches them. Bye Bye job, good thing he is going to finish school before moving back into the real world. Yep, life is not fair thats just how it is.
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That's the ticket, roll over and die and accept the status quo.
 
Modred189 said:
Really? And let's see how far you dig yourself in with this one: What does working with google have to do with Nazis? In ANY way?
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I made the reference to Naziism because the Nazis made the Jews wear badges to denote they were Jewish..duh...get it now Mr Superior intelligence?
 
Sounds like any other organization or military base around the united states. Contractors of the military have certain "privileges" they can utilize. Some can get into the BX/PX if they are in a war zone others can't. This just sounds like someone being way too nosy. While I don't necessarily feel he needed to be fired he did need to be spoken with.

People poking around "secured" or "sensitive" areas and asking questions should always be met with questions.
 
The contractors and rules are nothing new to Silicon Valley, every company has those types of rules to some extent.

But the fact that he got fired for talking to someone and filming a video is fucking bullshit.

Why would Google be concerned about an "expose" if there's nothing to expose? He never even called it an expose himself.. Google used the word, implying that they know there's something wrong there.

I've been fired as a contractor in a similar situation in Silicon Valley, and you feel like a cheap commodity. It's a terrible feeling, and the companies will have you there working for a year or two sometimes before even considering hiring you. Until then you work just as hard as the guys next to you, with the opportunity of being walked out of the building at any minute of the day as I was. Just like in this video, the managers had to come up with a nonsense reason for letting me go, saying that my position was being done away with.

I found out two weeks later when I was re-hired in a different area of the company ( ;) ) that the guy who had been my acting manager was actually firing me to hire in his friend in my place. So the role was in fact not being done away with, but that's what they put on paper.

This is why no one should worship any of these companies. At the end of the day they will all betray you one way or another if it is in their best interest, whether you are an employee or a consumer. Never forget that.
 
Killermac said:
People poking around "secured" or "sensitive" areas and asking questions should always be met with questions.
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The only thing sensitive about that area though is that google is breaking copyright laws by scanning some books that are still under copyright protection.
 
BlueStorm said:
The contractors and rules are nothing new to Silicon Valley, every company has those types of rules to some extent.

But the fact that he got fired for talking to someone and filming a video is fucking bullshit.

Why would Google be concerned about an "expose" if there's nothing to expose? He never even called it an expose himself.. Google used the word, implying that they know there's something wrong there.

I've been fired as a contractor in a similar situation in Silicon Valley, and you feel like a cheap commodity. It's a terrible feeling, and the companies will have you there working for a year or two sometimes before even considering hiring you. Until then you work just as hard as the guys next to you, with the opportunity of being walked out of the building at any minute of the day as I was. Just like in this video, the managers had to come up with a nonsense reason for letting me go, saying that my position was being done away with.

I found out two weeks later when I was re-hired in a different area of the company ( ;) ) that the guy who had been my acting manager was actually firing me to hire in his friend in my place. So the role was in fact not being done away with, but that's what they put on paper.

This is why no one should worship any of these companies. At the end of the day they will all betray you one way or another if it is in their best interest, whether you are an employee or a consumer. Never forget that.
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You are not allowed to video tape other people in the work place. It's not your building nor do you have any permission to do any of that. Also, he wasn't working. And you are a commodity, if you were a contractor. If a guy I hired wasn't working but spent time trying to defame my company, I'd fire his ass too.
 
Gnasher said:
The only thing sensitive about that area though is that google is breaking copyright laws by scanning some books that are still under copyright protection.
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No. Wrong. How do you think they do all the scanning and OCR work? It's not by some widely known means, it's by some trade secret. As I explained above, they HAVE to protect such IP this way.
 
At one point I wanted to work for Google, after talking to a buddy who works there.... not for me.

I'll take my same salary at a smaller company without all the pretentious BS.
 
Gnasher said:
I made the reference to Naziism because the Nazis made the Jews wear badges to denote they were Jewish..duh...get it now Mr Superior intelligence?
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This shows you are purposefully reducing the atrocity of the Holacaust to that of a contractor not getting the same benefits as a full time employee.

You need to leave your mommy's basement and enter the real world.
 
Listening to even his one sided account of the back and forth between him self, his recruiter and google it sounds like he had more than a fair chance to explain away behaviour which was a cause for concern and only ended up digging himself deeper and red flagging him self as an none compliant employee who didn't live and breath the google mantra.

I'd have sacked him as well simply for his poor judgement, that while only a temporary worker, rather than being an enthusiastic driven person looking to potentially make his position permanent he instead decided to stick a twig in a nest and see what came out. You never want that kind of person working for you unless they are an absolute creative genius.
 
BigYoSpeck said:
Listening to even his one sided account of the back and forth between him self, his recruiter and google it sounds like he had more than a fair chance to explain away behaviour which was a cause for concern and only ended up digging himself deeper and red flagging him self as an none compliant employee who didn't live and breath the google mantra.

I'd have sacked him as well simply for his poor judgement, that while only a temporary worker, rather than being an enthusiastic driven person looking to potentially make his position permanent he instead decided to stick a twig in a nest and see what came out. You never want that kind of person working for you unless they are an absolute creative genius.
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Well said, he wasn't drinking the cool-aid and sounded like he would be a problem, which he made even more clear to them in his response.

And for anyone saying they were fired for made up reasons on paper, welcome to the club, this happens ALL the time, probably even the majority of the time! :) If the company no longer wants you working for them anymore, it's usually not worth hanging on to anyways. It's never a GOOD feeling, but hey companies are not always right in what they do.

The guy above who was fired so they could hire in his manager friend, would you really want to be working for a company like that anyways? (unless you just need a little more time for contribution matching on your 401k or a pension plan or some something). At my last Job they blamed everything on IT, so they ended up replacing ALL developers except the architect and one other, right after we finished working 6 days a week and 12 hours a day for a month and 1/2 without any overtime compensation, and 20% paycuts. They said they were downsizing, and everyone was just thankful that the layoff said "eligable for re-hire", rather than something negative, but every time someone was canned, there was a replacement for them the next week. Hell I got to meet my replacement the day I was let go. This is all too common.
 
Its like this. Does the guy that brings his sandwich truck to google get to use their extensive facilities? What about their ad agency? What about the people that do their deliveries? Etc. These are not google employees. These are contractors. The contract agency likely gave google the best price for scanning books. Google agreed to provide facilities for the work. Everything else is the agencies responsibilities. Now idiot wants to video tape them like they are some slaves coming to and from the salt mine. What is google supposed to think? How can these videos do anything except create problems?
 
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