• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Borderlands 4

Domingo said:
The DLSS/FSR thing is wild. People refuse to even try it. You'd think the man was telling them they need to format their hard drive and install some kind of obscure Linus distro. Instead it's just a toggle. Just try it. It's not like the posters are claiming that DLSS/FSR is poorly implemented or that their performance is somehow still lacking. They won't even try it and would rather complain or try 200 other potential configurations than to hit that little "on" switch. You bought a card where that was one of if not the single biggest selling point.
Click to expand...
The problem is purely one of principle; I don't agree with paying a premium price for a top-of-the-line card and using gimmicks. And if I can somehow accept frame generation, because it's something like "improved (v)sync" on the monitor, which they've been doing for years.
Upscalers are something else entirely, something that companies are trying to impose on consumers, and that's not acceptable to me.

*UE5 is a tool that companies use to force consumers to "upgrade" their old hardware.
 
AVATARAT said:
The problem is purely one of principle; I don't agree with paying a premium price for a top-of-the-line card and using gimmicks. And if I can somehow accept frame generation, because it's something like "improved (v)sync" on the monitor, which they've been doing for years.
Upscalers are something else entirely, something that companies are trying to impose on consumers, and that's not acceptable to me.

*UE5 is a tool that companies use to force consumers to "upgrade" their old hardware.
Click to expand...

welcome to PC gaming??
 
I have zero problem needing to use DLSS and FrameGen to run a new game. Ok, if that makes the game better to run and give smoother performance that's fine.

But I do have a problem when the CEO Randy Pitchford has diarrhea of the mouth. Just ripping on gamers saying it's optimized. You just need a better computer or blah blah blah and him almost making fun of people and just being a super jackass about it..

Why would I want to give a guy like that my money?

This could be totally different if he was somewhat apologetic and said yeah. I understand some people are having performance issues. We're going to look into doing some better optimizations with some patches over the weeks and months to try to make it better for people..

If he came across like that, being helpful and more understanding and explain that. It would go off a million times better, than the bull crap attitude he's had since launch
 
Zorachus said:
I have zero problem needing to use DLSS and FrameGen to run a new game. Ok, if that makes the game better to run and give smoother performance that's fine.

But I do have a problem when the CEO Randy Pitchford has diarrhea of the mouth. Just ripping on gamers saying it's optimized. You just need a better computer or blah blah blah and him almost making fun of people and just being a super jackass about it..

Why would I want to give a guy like that my money?

This could be totally different if he was somewhat apologetic and said yeah. I understand some people are having performance issues. We're going to look into doing some better optimizations with some patches over the weeks and months to try to make it better for people..

If he came across like that, being helpful and more understanding and explain that. It would go off a million times better, than the bull crap attitude he's had since launch
Click to expand...

Definitely. I don't think anyone is defending Pitchford's approach. Dude is a tool and has been for quite a while now. I just think he's right about one single thing while still being an asshole about how he delivers that point. If you aren't willing to at least try DLSS/FSR or framegen (if you have hardware that can), you don't really want to play the game that badly.
 
I think most people who own a Nvidia RTX card are willing to use DLSS and FG to achieve extra frames including myself. I don't think it was it was designed to provide cover for games released that are poorly optimized. Out of the box BL4 is mostly unplayable with many Nvidia cards without DLSS and FG. With my current system I can't even maintain 45 fps at 1440P, which is also the case for the 5080 at the bad ass setting, making it pretty much unplayable. The only card that can get above 60 fps is the 4090 and 5090 at 1440P, although at 4k the 5090 only manages about 45. So the point is BL4 without upscaling is playable with only two cards at 1440P, and maybe barely at 4K, the rest can't even break 60 fps. The only game that I can recall being that demanding in the last 20 years is Crysis, most single cards couldn't even play it, you had to use SLI. Also in the same time period Crysis and now BL4 are the only games I haven't been able to at least get 60 for a base frame rate.
So anyway it's a fun game and I'm enjoying, but lets be honest, it runs like shit, it's only saving grace is it has upscaling, the recommended PC specs put out by Gearbox are laughable, a 3080, at what 1080P. If you're going to make a game that is so demanding, at least be honest and say what is actually necessary to play it at top settings, and that upscaling is a necessity.
 
KickAssCop said:
3090 from 2020.
But yes I do consider 5080 as a mid tier card.
5090 is barely a 4K card (using DLSS/FG etc.).
Click to expand...
The 80’s series cards were always considered the flagship for Nvidia, the Titan series was basically what now has become known as the 90 series. It’s a class by itself in my opinion.
 
killroy67 said:
The 80’s series cards were always considered the flagship for Nvidia, the Titan series was basically what now has become known as the 90 series. It’s a class by itself in my opinion.
Click to expand...
That was maybe relevant until 2080... that was 6/7 years ago man. Times change.

For me even a 5090 is not a 4K card if you start playing games natively.
Recent examples:
Mafia Old Country
Borderlands 4
Stalker 2
...
Barely does 60 fps maxed out. Unless you use DLSS Q and FG. In Mafia Old Country I couldn't use FG even because it would have trails/ghosting so I ran DLSS Q at around 60-70 fps which was painful.
 
I think having the game open world was a mistake, makes the planet feel small and weird to me.
 
KickAssCop said:
That was maybe relevant until 2080... that was 6/7 years ago man. Times change.

For me even a 5090 is not a 4K card if you start playing games natively.
Recent examples:
Mafia Old Country
Borderlands 4
Stalker 2
...
Barely does 60 fps maxed out. Unless you use DLSS Q and FG. In Mafia Old Country I couldn't use FG even because it would have trails/ghosting so I ran DLSS Q at around 60-70 fps which was painful.
Click to expand...
The last Titan card was the Titan RTX in 2018, making the 3090 the first break from the Titan series.
The three games you mentioned were all poorly optimized, making upscaling a must. A 4080 or 5080 should be more than sufficient to play a game at its highest settings and achieve at least 60 fps at 1440p, using upscaling to pad that frame rate giving a smoother experience. It’s my opinion that a 5090 should be the exception to gaming, not the standard. Gamers shouldn’t have to own the most expensive card on the market to have a game look great, regardless of the use of upscaling.
That said the real issue at hand is the game runs like crap and is poorly optimized, and it’s just not gamers saying this it’s reviews as well. If you want to see how a optimized UE5 game runs check out Delta Force Black Hawk Down, it uses the same engine as BL4 or Stalker, its look phenomenal and plays like a dream, even without upscaling.
 
I am playing it at 4K 130 fps Badass with 40 ms. It is definitely not an amazing experience but at least it is not reducing my enjoyment of the game. Not using FG is far worse than using it right now.
5090 is barely a 4K card. People need to start thinking about 1440P and DLSS Q as a starting point if they want decent frame rates.
 
killroy67 said:
That said the real issue at hand is the game runs like crap and is poorly optimized, and it’s just not gamers saying this it’s reviews as well. If you want to see how a optimized UE5 game runs check out Delta Force Black Hawk Down, it uses the same engine as BL4 or Stalker, its look phenomenal and plays like a dream, even without upscaling.
Click to expand...
Randy talks about a "premium game for premium gamers," yet neglects to mention that such a premium product should also come with a premium experience. Only getting ~45fps on the most premium consumer gaming setup (9800x3d, 5090, 4K monitor) with premium settings is unacceptable. Especially since the overall visual quality of the game is well below that of many other recent releases that have better FPS performance and stability.

The shader compilation stutters, 30fps max cut scenes, Nanite implementation that does nothing for the art style but bogs down performance, myriad other issues are and should always be unacceptable for a "Premium Game," and especially one that's supposed to be a high-paced shoot and loot. One or even two of the faults would have been bad, but all together equals the disaster that's currently here.
 
KickAssCop said:
I am playing it at 4K 130 fps Badass with 40 ms. It is definitely not an amazing experience but at least it is not reducing my enjoyment of the game. Not using FG is far worse than using it right now.
5090 is barely a 4K card. People need to start thinking about 1440P and DLSS Q as a starting point if they want decent frame rates.
Click to expand...
The 5090 is most certainly a 4k card, I'd be pissed if I paid $2500+ and it could only handle 1440P, especially using upscaling.
 
Domingo said:
The DLSS/FSR thing is wild. People refuse to even try it.
Click to expand...
some of us have tried it or various version and we can feel it and it feels like shit.
id like to know if anybody upset bothered to take it off "ultimate" settings though....
 
The thing is with the the funky graphics bl4 uses and looks like a simplistic minimalistic graphical game, but it requires major Star Trek Enterprise supercomputer to run it

Whereas other games that stylistically and graphically like way cooler and better aren't such a hog on the hardware.

Again, I'll bring up Doom the dark ages before they came released people about how demanding and tough that game's going to be to run with everything enabled. HDR on OLED screens with all the eye candy enabled people expected it to run like beef and get low frames

But the game came out and it didn't take a 5090 to run it at Max Ultra. Doom the dark ages couldn't be run on a 3080 maybe not Ultra graphics but very high settings and look amazing and high FPS.

There's clearly some major optimization issues on bl4 compared to other games. That's just a fact. I don't know why people are standing up for Randy Pitchford or defending bl4 so much when it comes to the performance issues.
 
Zorachus said:
The thing is with the the funky graphics bl4 uses and looks like a simplistic minimalistic graphical game, but it requires major Star Trek Enterprise supercomputer to run it

Whereas other games that stylistically and graphically like way cooler and better aren't such a hog on the hardware.

Again, I'll bring up Doom the dark ages before they came released people about how demanding and tough that game's going to be to run with everything enabled. HDR on OLED screens with all the eye candy enabled people expected it to run like beef and get low frames

But the game came out and it didn't take a 5090 to run it at Max Ultra. Doom the dark ages couldn't be run on a 3080 maybe not Ultra graphics but very high settings and look amazing and high FPS.

There's clearly some major optimization issues on bl4 compared to other games. That's just a fact. I don't know why people are standing up for Randy Pitchford or defending bl4 so much when it comes to the performance issues.
Click to expand...
You can also add BF6 too the list, great looking graphics and ran very well on a number of different cards at ultimate settings.
 
killroy67 said:
You can also add BF6 too the list, great looking graphics and ran very well on a number of different cards at ultimate settings.
Click to expand...

Yep, I played the BF6 beta, maxed out ultra settings and the game played pretty darn smooth without issue and looks good too.

And I was not using DLSS.
 
those bubble bosses that show up around the game world, are those infinite or is the a set amount of them?
 
pendragon1 said:
some of us have tried it or various version and we can feel it and it feels like shit.
id like to know if anybody upset bothered to take it off "ultimate" settings though....
Click to expand...
I was curious what the results would be so i tried it, going from bad ass to very high to high had hardly any impact, the only setting that made a difference was going to medium, and that also was maybe 20 fps give or take over what i got on bad ass. This is all with DLSS Quality and FG on.
 
killroy67 said:
I was curious what the results would be so i tried it, going from bad ass to very high to high had hardly any impact, the only setting that made a difference was going to medium, and that also was maybe 20 fps give or take over what i got on bad ass. This is all with DLSS Quality and FG on.
Click to expand...
thats a decent jump. could probably narrow down whats hitting so hard by flipping things back up till it drops again, leave that one and crank the rest.
 
Last edited:
So does this game look good enough to justify its performance?

Like, if a game runs like shit but has graphics that are generation-defining and beyond anything seen before, that's fine (crysis, anyone?)

But if the game looks worse than other games, and runs worse as well, why defend it?
 
Zorachus said:
Have you not read and listened to all the insane stuff Pitchford has said in the last week? Why would I want to support a company with that toxic fuck at the helm?

F that douche.
Click to expand...
If I cared about every douche behind every product I use, I would become Amish and do everything myself. At the end of the day, I buy products based on my enjoyment and my enjoyment only.
 
Zorachus said:
There's clearly some major optimization issues on bl4 compared to other games. That's just a fact. I don't know why people are standing up for Randy Pitchford or defending bl4 so much when it comes to the performance issues.
Click to expand...

You can keep saying it's badly optimsed, that does not make it so, now if you can get someone like Tim Sweeny to check out the complete game and everything that it entails and he says it's badly optimsed I may believe it.

It's clear to me that the graphical style of BL4 is not doing it any favors in some people's pêrception of how they think it should run but witha realistic style it would run similarly, there is probably a lot going on in the background of the game due to the size of the world, and the dynamic ancounters etc.. there is more to a game then just the visuals, all the underlying systems also need to be run.

I am not a fan of the Unreal engine anyways, the game just like BL3 (and other Unreal engine games) has some quirks with the keybinds I use ZQSD for movement beeing an azerty user but to pan the map I still need to use WASD wich is a PITA.

Companring BL4 with games that are a different game type on a diffrent engine is comparing apples to oranges (like one of the testers already admitted to) and while Doom the dark ages might run faster it has game breaking bugs still and I would consider that more unoptimised then a intentional lower frame rate
 
Denpepe said:
You can keep saying it's badly optimsed, that does not make it so, now if you can get someone like Tim Sweeny to check out the complete game and everything that it entails and he says it's badly optimsed I may believe it.

It's clear to me that the graphical style of BL4 is not doing it any favors in some people's pêrception of how they think it should run but witha realistic style it would run similarly, there is probably a lot going on in the background of the game due to the size of the world, and the dynamic ancounters etc.. there is more to a game then just the visuals, all the underlying systems also need to be run.

I am not a fan of the Unreal engine anyways, the game just like BL3 (and other Unreal engine games) has some quirks with the keybinds I use ZQSD for movement beeing an azerty user but to pan the map I still need to use WASD wich is a PITA.

Companring BL4 with games that are a different game type on a diffrent engine is comparing apples to oranges (like one of the testers already admitted to) and while Doom the dark ages might run faster it has game breaking bugs still and I would consider that more unoptimised then a intentional lower frame rate
Click to expand...
I'd say the word "optimised" is referring to how good it looks versus how it runs. Which is really the end-all be-all!

You can split hairs, but I saw some comparisons that the lowest settings in this game look worse than prior games in the series and run way slower.

So if you're playing a game that looks worse, and runs worse, it's pretty much fitting the definition of being poorly optimised.

If the game's visuals were mind-blowing then I doubt this controversy would exist.
 
I just destroyed a ship and am only level 13. I feel by doing main story I am missing a lot of the game. Not sure what strategy to take - do lots of sides or do main quest first.

Game just feels massive.
 
I’m a level 13 as well, I finally got some decent gear so I don’t get my ass kicked as bad. I have a legendary sub machine gun that does 232 damage plus corrosive, works great. I’ve been working on building up my SDU deck so I can have more ammo and storage. It’s fun but at times I feel overwhelmed with the map whether I should stay on main mission, look for side stuff or just explore and kill shit.
 
killroy67 said:
I’m a level 13 as well, I finally got some decent gear so I don’t get my ass kicked as bad. I have a legendary sub machine gun that does 232 damage plus corrosive, works great. I’ve been working on building up my SDU deck so I can have more ammo and storage. It’s fun but at times I feel overwhelmed with the map whether I should stay on main mission, look for side stuff or just explore and kill shit.
Click to expand...
lol same feeling. Too much game and not enough time. Btw I also have a purple corrosive sub machine gun and a corrosive shotgun with a freeze grenade. I can make quick work of most ads. The boss before the ship with the
locust
took a while to kill though.
 
KickAssCop said:
lol same feeling. Too much game and not enough time. Btw I also have a purple corrosive sub machine gun and a corrosive shotgun with a freeze grenade. I can make quick work of most ads. The boss before the ship with the
locust
took a while to kill though.
Click to expand...
I haven't gotten to him, I've been doing side missions and getting different collectibles.......dying and respawning 😂 that kind of stuff.
 
Bigbacon said:
welcome to PC gaming??
Click to expand...

No, it's different.

Before, the hardware wasn't fast enough, and the games were heavy = we got fewer FPS.
Now the hardware is extremely fast, but BL4 (some UE5 games) are designed to run slowly.
If there was an option to disable Lumen or Nanite RT, the game would run fast, but there isn't. So we "hope" that they will add something like that or that someone will create/find a way to enforce it.

There are actually things that can be done to optimize performance, but they simply tell us to buy faster hardware, which is not the right way to go about it.
 
AVATARAT said:
No, it's different.

Before, the hardware wasn't fast enough, and the games were heavy = we got fewer FPS.
Now the hardware is extremely fast, but BL4 (some UE5 games) are designed to run slowly.
If there was an option to disable Lumen or Nanite RT, the game would run fast, but there isn't. So we "hope" that they will add something like that or that someone will create/find a way to enforce it.

There are actually things that can be done to optimize performance, but they simply tell us to buy faster hardware, which is not the right way to go about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah from what I can see, a 4060 can't hit 60 FPS Locked at low settings 1080p.

That's not a 'too high expectations' issue, it's an optimisation issue.

If people could achieve 120fps by using medium settings and 1080p on a 5060, I'd say they were just entitled. But from what I hear, the ONLY way to get 60 is frame gen.
 
w35t said:
I’m playing the crap out of it and having a total blast. Just hit level 33 with Harlowe, went with the red tree focusing on radiation and am just melting everything.
Click to expand...
I'm level 24 with Harlowe, also on the red tree. It's gross.

Pistol alt fire shoots a corrosive vile that amps damage by 30%
Ordnance throwing knife that amps damage by 15% on target & reduces target damage by 25%
Repkit amps damage by 30% and grants increased action cooldown rate by 100%. So, Chroma cooldown gets halved upon use. Plus, the "Test Subjects" passive adds another 35% to cooldown reduction.

My boss rotation is the following,

I'll amp the target with the pistol and ordnance. Fire off Chroma Accelerator with Neutron Capture augment. Use repkit for more amped damage and reduced cooldown on Chroma. Once the Chroma explodes, it causes a portion of that damage to transfer to my equipped weapon in the form of bonus radiation damage. That combo with a high mag count shotgun absolutely melts through the badass world bosses.

I found a class mod that gives +2 Distribution Function which is deep in the Flux Generator tree (Green). That gives 12% of damage dealt as Overshield from Chroma damage and the added radiation damage to my gun so I'm pretty much unkillable for 8 seconds.

Looking forward to getting a Capstone unlocked. I agree, the games a blast.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: w35t
like this
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top