R520 Delayed?

[Dr. X]

I'm not saying I wouldn't rather pay $300 for a GTX, but from a marketing perspective, it's not like they've lost their minds here...the pricing makes perfect sense....though $500 seems like it would have been more reasonable.

Not to mention there had to be other reasoning behind the pricing considering that if they sold it for that much it would have completely undercut ati's top cards, with more features and speed.

 

[Borgschulze]

This is just sad.

The OEM version of the x850xtpe pci-e is going for almost $500 right now.

I would much rather pay that, I think the Catalyst drivers are amazing compared to this nVidia stuff...

 

[^eMpTy^]

Not to mention there had to be other reasoning behind the pricing considering that if they sold it for that much it would have completely undercut ati's top cards, with more features and speed.

Well it certainly makes me think that the "Ultra" rumors are nonsense...

I dunno...seems kinda strange to me that the card is $600...they're having good yields...it's a single slot cooler...maybe it's all the new circuitry they're using instead of capacitors this time around...or maybe the 1200Mhz memory is really expensive...

*shrug*

 

[^eMpTy^]

I would much rather pay that, I think the Catalyst drivers are amazing compared to this nVidia stuff...

Right cuz nVidia drivers are just horrible...

 

[Dr. X]

I would much rather pay that, I think the Catalyst drivers are amazing compared to this nVidia stuff...

Please, back up your statements or your posts are just going to look like flamebait.

And are you honestly saying you'd pay the same price for an x850xt pe over a 7800gtx? If so, you must be crazy. The hardware is OLD! Plain and simple.

 

[Skrying]

Holy shit, would you two back off of him. Come on, its HIS OPINION! I'm sorry that you see someone who doesnt like the drivers, but that's HIM, he has the right to that opinion and if you cant get over that then you really need to question yourself and realize that maybe you have a little bit of self doubt in them.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Holy shit, would you two back off of him. Come on, its HIS OPINION! I'm sorry that you see someone who doesnt like the drivers, but that's HIM, he has the right to that opinion and if you cant get over that then you really need to question yourself and realize that maybe you have a little bit of self doubt in them.

Back off? I agreed with him!!!

 

[Skrying]

Back off? I agreed with him!!!

Haha, you're really funny!

 

[Dr. X]

Holy shit, would you two back off of him. Come on, its HIS OPINION! I'm sorry that you see someone who doesnt like the drivers, but that's HIM, he has the right to that opinion and if you cant get over that then you really need to question yourself and realize that maybe you have a little bit of self doubt in them.

wtf are you talking about? If you can't post why you have that opinion, you shouldn't be posting in the first place. That's pretty much the definition of flamebait. You can have any opinion you want, but back it up.

 

[tranCendenZ]

Someone on B3D made a good point. Do you think Nvidia purposely launched the 7800GTX a day before ATI's earnings report to put "the icing on the cake" as someone put it?

 

[^eMpTy^]

Someone on B3D made a good point. Do you think Nvidia purposely launched the 7800GTX a day before ATI's earnings report to put "the icing on the cake" as someone put it?

...I hadn't thought of that...damn that's mean...

 

[{NG}Fidel]

Holy shit, would you two back off of him. Come on, its HIS OPINION! I'm sorry that you see someone who doesnt like the drivers, but that's HIM, he has the right to that opinion and if you cant get over that then you really need to question yourself and realize that maybe you have a little bit of self doubt in them.

choosing one card that is noriceably slower than another due to slightly better Drivers is simply a foolish opinion. I will defend his right to have it but I also have my right to state my own opinion.

Someone on B3D made a good point. Do you think Nvidia purposely launched the 7800GTX a day before ATI's earnings report to put "the icing on the cake" as someone put it?

Woah you just posted some big flamebait.

I am waiting for the R520 for a couple of reasons.
1. I simply dont have the money right now nor do I need a new card right now, hopefully by the R520s launch the performance will have risen by at least 2x that of current gen cards.
2. Cross Fire looks much more apealing to me than SLi.
3. I have always gone Ati (for the most part at least) due to the fact that I dont have to mess with new drivers and when I couple that with the above reaons I dont see a reason to get the 7800GTX right now.

While the 3rd point looks like a !!!!!!sh thing to say I wouldnt have said it if points 1 and 2 did not exist. Also all those bashing the 7800GTX take a step back for a second and look how good it is for its price to performance ratio. In most games it give 6800USLi speed or better. It has great new AA modes such as TRAA. I do agree that this gen seems like a steping stone in the graphics card world though. Just my opinion.

 

[Borgschulze]

An X850XT PE is $100 less than a 7800GTX.
Yes I would rather the ATi card because I find the drivers are better.
I don't like how the nVidia drivers are setup, with the silly popout box thing on the side, I want simple GUI, not fancy stuff.

I find the way they setup the 3D Performance settings are a little messy too.
The ONLY positive things I can say for the nVidia drivers are the Colour tuning wizard and the Game Profiles.
Also when changing the resolution it sometimes resets to 60hz, I never had this problem with ATi drivers.
Also the nView monitor selection modes are kind of wierd too.. The ATi drivers I could just press a button and then go back to Advanced Display Properties and move where I wanted the monitor to be there.
Also with Coolbits it doesn't really tell you what Auto Overclocking does... so you have to go find information on it yourself... and I used Detect Optimal Frequencies in manual overclocking and I was getting artifacts in my games... so that didn't work out too good.

Anything else I should backup? Or is this flamebait because I said what I personally don't like about the drivers.

Also, I don't like the Catalyst Control Center, and they don't need the fancy Dials in the overclocking tab on ATi cards.

EDIT: Blah blah blah 7800GTX is fast, I know.

 

[PRIME1]

I smell a paper launch coming.

As for price the x850xt-pe's were selling for $600 when they first came out.

 

[Diseaseboy]

If 90nm is mature enough by the fall I would bet my left nut Nvidia will have a higher clocked 7800 and/or a 32 pipe card. Personally, I think ATI is playing "catchup" since they reportedly had the 520 taped out a long time ago- I'm willing to bet they're reworking it. The 7800 caught them off guard just like SLI did. Crossfire came 6 months later than SLI and the 520 may come 6 months (in quanity) later than the G70.

 

[TheGameguru]

Better ATI delay now and produce a card that not only will yeild a competitor at the $600 mark but eventually yeild competitors all down the various price points.

At this point ATI needs another 9700 not another 9800/X800 refresh.

At this stage even the mid range cards are holding their own on most current software.. so in the grand scheme of things its really about positioning yourself for further down the road.

 

[Sniper_Merc]

they are sitting on a cash horde of 600 million dollars

I remember somebody claiming just about the same thing and that they could buy out Nv 10 times over. The coment was made for 3D FX and we all know where that went to dont we.

 

[kick@ss]

Why are people saying that Crossfire is "more attractive" than SLI? It's basically the same thing. It's not like it's going to triple single card performance or anything, it'll be similar to SLI. Also, I don't even think you can buy a Crossfire card right now.

 

[Sniper_Merc]

Crossfire came 6 months later than SLI and the 520 may come 6 months (in quanity) later than the G70.

Small problem with this statement, Crossfire isn't available till R 520 is available, meaning it wont be 6 months but more like a year behind SLI and figure another 6 months beyond that before the drivers begin to mature as Nvidia's are now.

 

[Inglix_the_Mad]

Isn't that what ATI fans said nVidia should do when the 5 series was out against the R300 core? ATI is just going to have to suck up and take their licks... They're going to tick off alot of people, but, oh well...

ATI should just go ahead and throw in the towel. If they cant produce what they design then why even try? By the time they get anything out the door lately Nvidia is at least 3 or 4 steps ahead of them. At this rate ATI will have the R520 out the door and on shelves when Nvidia has the G100 out there.

 

[pfc_m_drake]

I've had this pet theory in the back of my mind...it's pretty silly, so take it for what it's worth.

Remember back when nVidia was developing their nForce/nForce 2 motherboard chipset, and they were developing/supplying Xbox GPUs...during that timeframe it seemed as though nVidia only had a passing interest in desktop graphic cards. Maybe not coincidentally, ATI proceeded to take the 'lead' in the desktop graphic card race.

Now, ATI is busy developing their motherboard chipset, and they've got the Xbox 360 GPU contract. It almost seems like ATI currently only has a passing interest in desktop graphic cards. Maybe also not coincidentally, nVidia has regained the 'lead' in the desktop graphic card race.

Just my opinion...maybe food for thought.

 

[kpedge]

Now, ATI is busy developing their motherboard chipset, and they've got the Xbox 360 GPU contract. It almost seems like ATI currently only has a passing interest in desktop graphic cards...

Just my opinion...maybe food for thought.

I hope not- I'm not loyal to either company, I'm glad when there's competition because typically quality is up and prices are lower than they would be otherwise. I'd really like to see a 3-way battle at the top of the 3D pile.

 

[Engine101]

Why are people saying that Crossfire is "more attractive" than SLI? It's basically the same thing. It's not like it's going to triple single card performance or anything, it'll be similar to SLI. Also, I don't even think you can buy a Crossfire card right now.

You better do some more research. There are a several differences that clearly put Crossfire at an advantage. No one can argue with that. Foremost, there are no customized drivers needed for Crosffire to enhance performance. If that alone was the only enhancement, it would still put Crosffire at a great advantage, but it's not. The rest is up to you to read about.

 

[Hito Bahadur]

What I will say is that I wouldn't be surprised if NVidia made sure this wasn't a paper launch in order to ensure that ATI would not do the same.

It was highly emphasized that GTX's were available at launch. If ATI were to do a paper launch, at this point, they would seem foolish because of the precedent that NVidia made. If NVidia had paper launched 3 weeks ago, ATI could have done the same and taken a lot of the steam out of NVidia's sails.

On the Price of the GTX: I think the GTX is set at $599 to make room for the GT and vanilla versions. I think you will find that the performance of the 7800GT (if it comes out soon) will be slightly higher than the 850PE and priced a bit below it. This would make sense with the current pricing of the GTX.

Just food for thought.





edit: for grammar

 

[Diseaseboy]

You better do some more research. There are a several differences that clearly put Crossfire at an advantage. No one can argue with that. Foremost, there are no customized drivers needed for Crosffire to enhance performance. If that alone was the only enhancement, it would still put Crosffire at a great advantage, but it's not. The rest is up to you to read about.

You better start reading too.............Crossfire uses profiles just like SLI does- no different. By the time Crossfire is out, Nvidia will have the 8X.XX drivers out that will match anything Crossfire does. SLI is capable of 16x AA, supertitling, mismatching cards, etc.

 

[lithium726]

Foremost, there are no customized drivers needed for Crosffire to enhance performance.

now, i dont hang out in video cards a lot, but im 90% sure that in more recent driver revisions, NV has made it possible for any game to take advantage of SLI, and hte ones htat have profiles are just more optimized for it.

 

[James54321]

I’m a bit disappointed to hear about the delay but then again, I also know I won’t have the money to afford their flagship/initial release product anyway. I’m not so sure ATI is really in trouble; I mean ATI does have a sizable OEM market share. I’m just wondering if and how that’s changed after the years with their initiative to compete in the performance market against NVIDIA.

All I know is that after the 9700 was released, I think NVIDA learned the valuable lesson of never sitting back and thinking you will simply stay at #1. So if anything NVIDIA will probably continue with an aggressive production cycle (as proven by NVIDIA’s move to forgo their typical strategy in slightly improving the 6800 series and instead focus on releasing the 7800 series).

Now that I look back, NVIDIA’s strategy to gamble in new not-yet-released technology may have paid off. This is technically the second generation of hardware that supports SM 3.0 and, as indicated in the 7800’s technical specifications, they’ve been able to polish this technology. It almost reminds me of the 3Dfx and NVIDIA argument when the TNT2 supported 32-bit textures and 3Dfx said that this feature was not necessary for their V3 lineup.

Not that this was what drove the company under; however, it most-definitely worked against them. I doubt this too will till bring ATI down, but it might hurt their mainstream market share. NIVIDA has always had a reputation for gambling and, up to now, it’s paid off (most of the time). This is going to be interesting indeed.

- James

 

[Commander Suzdal]

.

I dunno...seems kinda strange to me that the card is $600...they're having good yields...it's a single slot cooler...maybe it's all the new circuitry they're using instead of capacitors this time around...or maybe the 1200Mhz memory is really expensive...

*shrug*

.
Well since the drumbeat this time around seems to be "availability, availability, availability," price is an important part of controlling demand. If they can only make, say 1,000 of these cards a month, they want to charge a price that their research shows will generate about 1,000 sales a month. If they charge much less than that, the warm fuzzy buzz about "I can buy one right now!" goes away. Customers get frustrated, and even worse, Wall Street buzz begins to say "nVidia is having supply problems--better downgrade their stock." Believe me, a company cares ten times more what the Street thinks than what you think. It affects the wealth of the company officers, it affects the cost of credit when the company finances its operations, and on and on.

AMD is doing the same thing with their dual-core Athlons. Controlling demand through pricing keeps them in control of their own destiny.

If demand were higher because of lower prices, that would just drive prices up anyway. And the difference would go into retailers' pockets, not nVidia's (or AMD's).

Gee--did I actually just get a chance to USE my Business Admin degree???

.

 

[kick@ss]

You better do some more research. There are a several differences that clearly put Crossfire at an advantage. No one can argue with that. Foremost, there are no customized drivers needed for Crosffire to enhance performance. If that alone was the only enhancement, it would still put Crosffire at a great advantage, but it's not. The rest is up to you to read about.

I really fail to see how that is a huge advantage. It's more like a minor footnote, but then again we all know f4nboys blow up the littlest of things into huge issues.

 

[Brent_Justice]

Crossfire uses Profiles to enable AFR, otherwise it defaults to Tile in D3D and Scissor in OGL if there is no profile stating to run the game in AFR.

SLI needs profiles to operate in AFR and SFR and right now defaults to single card if no profile is present, though you can manually enable SLI now globally and you can set the SLI mode per game with user created profiles, but by default it's set on single card.

There's some facts to clear that up.

 

[Jbirney]

I smell a paper launch coming.

As for price the x850xt-pe's were selling for $600 when they first came out.

Minor yet important different, MSPR was not $600. ATI can not be held at fault for on-line vendors marking their cards up.

Small problem with this statement, Crossfire isn't available till R 520 is available, meaning it wont be 6 months but more like a year behind SLI and figure another 6 months beyond that before the drivers begin to mature as Nvidia's are now.

Utter BS. xfire availbility has nothing to do with R520.

Why are people saying that Crossfire is "more attractive" than SLI? It's basically the same thing. It's not like it's going to triple single card performance or anything, it'll be similar to SLI. Also, I don't even think you can buy a Crossfire card right now.

Go back and read up again then. There are some techincal advatnages to xfire that SLI simply can not do (even with driver tricks). However where or not those actuall work out remains to be seen...

You better start reading too.............Crossfire uses profiles just like SLI does- no different. By the time Crossfire is out, Nvidia will have the 8X.XX drivers out that will match anything Crossfire does. SLI is capable of 16x AA, supertitling, mismatching cards, etc.

No xfire does not use profiles all the time if there is no profile then it will run in default scisor or tiling mode. Thats something new that SLI did not have. Also the AA is not the same, simular yes, but still techincally behind what SLI can do. Then you can mix cards version which is something that SLI does not allow. Not saying thats a smart thing..just yet another difference

 

[Jbirney]

Doh sorry did not see Brent's post as he cleared some of them up nicely!

 

[kick@ss]

Go back and read up again then. There are some techincal advatnages to xfire that SLI simply can not do (even with driver tricks). However where or not those actuall work out remains to be seen...

I said it's basically the same thing - which it is. And I'm quite skeptical of paper launches; to me it indicates it's not working as intended.

 

[CMAN]

You better do some more research. There are a several differences that clearly put Crossfire at an advantage. No one can argue with that. Foremost, there are no customized drivers needed for Crosffire to enhance performance. If that alone was the only enhancement, it would still put Crosffire at a great advantage, but it's not. The rest is up to you to read about.

All you CAN do i read about it,you sure cant test it yourself since it isn't available. Cross fire has no clear advantage,it's not availble
ATI better have the new cards available when they launch them or they are going to look pretty silly. That is going to delay it even more because they have to get the chips to the manufacturers so they can have the cards available. Nvidia raised the bar quite a bit and it upset ATI's next release.

 

[Scroatdog]

This news is certainly not good for ATI (yes, I know, master of the obvious MOTO). This, coupled with their 3rd Quarter earnings (LOSS), may make it difficult for ATI to finish the fourth quarter in the green...........

I'll wait for R520 because my current card can handle everything out there with ease.

 

[Netrat33]

This is just sad.

The OEM version of the x850xtpe pci-e is going for almost $500 right now. If you're seriously in the market for a high end card...I think SLi, SM3, HDR, Transparency AA, and just plain more speed more than justify the price difference.

This arguement I would agree with if it weren't for the fact that people (not you) bitched about buying a GT for 400 when the ultra was 500. Or Pro over the XT

Me personally if i was looking to buy a new card and didn't have an XTPE yea i would go the GTX. But I'll wait until the R520 (or whatever) I always like to see competition and see which way it goes. I want a SLI/Crossfire rig. What I have now is more than enough for today's games and most of tomorrow's games

 

[geekcomputing]

"Its not hurting ATi that badly to not launch it as soon as possible"

ati has had 3 earning revisions in the last quarter.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ATYT&t=5d

they took a loss of 445,000 yesterday as compared to a profit of 49 million last year , same quarter.

they are in deep shit.

intel is simply destroying the low end intergrated market
nvidia just cut prices on the low to mid range in order to hurt ati even more
and nvidia rules the high end via the 6800 , SLI, and now the 7800 line.

cross fire (aka mis fire) is no where to be seen and wont be out till late july and the r520 according to some financial analysts may not be out till september.

ati has stated its delayed and at best will come out in late summer in limited supply w/ more in fall.

ati also has 456 million in inventory.
so they have the choice of marking it down and trying to sell it for lower margins
or
writing it off . last time they did a write off they had less inventory than this .

either way its nasty for the gross margins which have falled from 35% to 29.1%

can you say ati is hurting

btw , they just lowered 4th quarter earnings for the 2nd time! and they are not rosey on Q1 either

 

[Netrat33]

Isn't that what ATI fans said nVidia should do when the 5 series was out against the R300 core? ATI is just going to have to suck up and take their licks... They're going to tick off alot of people, but, oh well...

That's why fanny's are so blind

Competion = good

You always want the other company to be at least "good enough"
ATI has xbox signed on anyway so they aren't going anywhere.
This throw in the towel sh!t is stupid

 

[Netrat33]

So those not buying the 7800GTX and holding out for R520, how long will you wait?

5 months



(for the announcement at least)
Seriously. If you know the competion is going to announce a new card why not wait rather than spend $600 now and heck 2 or 3 months find out a faster card with more features is out? Not saying the R520 WILL be faster with more features, but rather play it safe. It might suck ass. But at least I know

 

[computerpro3]

Nvidia has just brought out there new card just so people, with say 850PE ,see that their card is shit and get a GTX..

Well, first, before you call me an ATI fanATIc, look at my sig. That's right, SLI'd 6800 ultras.

The x850>x800. My old x800xt-pe blows away a single ultra. The only reason I went Nvidia is for SLI, If I only could choose one card of course it would be the x850xt-pe.

So if the x850 is shit, what does that make all of Nvidia's cards besides the 7800gtx? Double shit?

I love deluded people's logic. So much fun to read and laugh at.


Now in regard to the ATI delay, this is pissing me off. See, lets say I get $900 for selling my ultras (ebay). I have to sell them now to get a good return, so I put them up. I don't want to go buy 2 7800gtx's if it indeed turns out to be the "GT" version and they come out with an ultra 2 months later, or if ATI's new solution is even better than that.

So now, Nvidia won't have to release their Ultra till later, and EVERYBODY loses because we will have MONTHS without new cards. I was hoping ATI releases in July, I buy EVGA 7800GTX, Nvidia releases Ultra a month later, I use EVGA step up to get SLI 7800 ultras. Now that's not going to happen and I have to figure out what to do.

Everyone loses.