Now or Wait?

[hmcazeau]

I've decided on a system with the following specs (questions at the bottom):

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel Case

GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard

XFX PVT73GUGD3 GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video XCLIO

GREATPOWER X14S4P3 550W ATX12V 550W Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JB 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive (for use in an already owned external case for backup purposes)

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model LH-20A1S (2X)

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card

QUESTIONS:

#1 Seeing as Vista has just come out, I have been debating whether to purchase Vista Ultimate or XP Pro. Seeing as XP's doom has been sealed (although its execution is not for a while, Microsoft does have it in custody and has asked it what it would like for its last meal), the wise decision would be to purchase Vista Ultimate. Current C2Duo prices are very attractive right now, but I'm also concerned about driver support. SHOULD I:
A. WAIT ON PURCHASING MY BUILD FOR A FEW MONTHS UNTIL DRIVER SUPPORT IMPROVES?

B. PURCHASE BUILD NOW WITH XP PRO WITH THE PLAN TO GIVE OLE' BILL ANOTHER $350 BUCKS WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS?

C. PURCHASE BUILD NOW AND INSTALL WINDOWS 2000 (already owned) AND WAIT FOR BETTER DRIVER SUPPORT.

#2 Also, I have a lot of progs that I can't afford to update right now that I would like to continue using:
MS Office 2000
Paint Shop Pro 8
Diablo II
Sims
Basically a lot of 2000 to 2003 software. I can't afford to update and get a new build too, and I need a better computer first (on a 650mhz AMD K7 right now).

#3 Do you expect C2Duo prices to continue the way they are throughout the summer?

#4 When in Vista SP1 expected?

 

[As I Lay Dying]

well you can dual boot win2000 and vista..... so yeah....you get vista now, and if it does not work as you like just use win2000 until the drivers and software are updated.


As per the hardware, I think the prices are gonna be dropping soon, AMD just slashed prices, and Intel will prolly follow through, and K10 should be out soon, as well as penryn (next intel offering) in a couple of months.

 

[Monkey34]

If it were me, I'd probably buy the build now, and use 2000 for now. XP and 2000 will have a usefull lifespan that exceeds the old 98/ME clan. Then you can update the other software (or find alternatives) over a period of time seeing as you cant afford everything all at once. This would also give Vista a little time to mature.

 

[zacdl]

A. WAIT ON PURCHASING MY BUILD FOR A FEW MONTHS UNTIL DRIVER SUPPORT IMPROVES?

This goes for the same as software- check your compatibility. If everything is going to play fine with Vista, then go for it. If all your hardware is compatible (you can check that out yourself), it'll run Vista. If all your applications you use are known to work with Vista, then you won't have any problems there, either.

B. PURCHASE BUILD NOW WITH XP PRO WITH THE PLAN TO GIVE OLE' BILL ANOTHER $350 BUCKS WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS?

In the next couple of years Windows Vienna (at least that's what it is called now) is going to be hitting the shelves.
Like I said above- if everything works, just buy Vista and be done with it.

[/quote]#2 Also, I have a lot of progs that I can't afford to update right now that I would like to continue using:
MS Office 2000
Paint Shop Pro 8
Diablo II
Sims
[/quote]
Like I said- do a search for that stuff. See what other people are saying about running it in Vista. Vista has an XP Compatibility mode which will run most stuff quite well.
From what I can tell, both Office 97 and Office 2000 work in Vista.

#3 Do you expect C2Duo prices to continue the way they are throughout the summer?

Being an AMD kinda guy, I really don't know about Intel's plans... but the fact of the matter is, it's not something you can predict. There is always new stuff rolling off the shelves, and you just won't be able to tell.

#4 When in Vista SP1 expected?

Octoberish (or more "accurate"... the fall).
Vista is the most heavily tested OS ever. SP1 isn't going to do too much. The whole "wait til SP1 comes out" is pretty much rubbish with Vista.

 

[six_storm]

I believe that right now is the WORST time to build a PC and/or buy Windows Vista.

PC Building: Intel is king now, however, to build a Core2Duo rig is pretty darn expensive. NVIDIA: 8-series rocks, but it's the FIRST DX10 card out there. From what I hear, it still needs some work and those promised DX10 games are here yet.

However, HDDs, PC cases and some RAM are dirt cheap now and you should prolly grab them while you can.

Windows Vista: Still a joke. It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources and gives you a 50/50 chance of finding working drivers? Wait until SP1 comes out, which will prolly be the start of next year.

 

[zacdl]

I believe that right now is the WORST time to build a PC and/or buy Windows Vista.

PC Building: Intel is king now, however, to build a Core2Duo rig is pretty darn expensive. NVIDIA: 8-series rocks, but it's the FIRST DX10 card out there. From what I hear, it still needs some work and those promised DX10 games are here yet.

However, HDDs, PC cases and some RAM are dirt cheap now and you should prolly grab them while you can.

Windows Vista: Still a joke. It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources and gives you a 50/50 chance of finding working drivers? Wait until SP1 comes out, which will prolly be the start of next year.

Please tell me nobody took this seriously?

"Buy RAM now, as it's cheap". What, like in 6 months it won't be even cheaper? There is always newer stuff working its way into the market- if he buys the RAM now to use in let's say 6 months, not only will that RAM be even cheaper in 6 months, it'll be even more outdated by the time he starts using it...

 

[markt435]

I believe that right now is the WORST time to build a PC and/or buy Windows Vista.

PC Building: Intel is king now, however, to build a Core2Duo rig is pretty darn expensive. NVIDIA: 8-series rocks, but it's the FIRST DX10 card out there. From what I hear, it still needs some work and those promised DX10 games are here yet.

However, HDDs, PC cases and some RAM are dirt cheap now and you should prolly grab them while you can.

Windows Vista: Still a joke. It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources and gives you a 50/50 chance of finding working drivers? Wait until SP1 comes out, which will prolly be the start of next year.

lol.

 

[six_storm]

True, yet I don't think that RAM prices will drop THAT much between now and 6 months. There may be a few rebates or something for $10 or $20. I was going to do a massive update to my PC but prices haven't changed that much, therefore I didn't do it. Technology is changing (from DDR1 to DDR2) and therefore there wasn't any point for me to upgrade my AMD Athlon 64 rig.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that it's smart to wait for a stable standard that will be around for a while. You may say that DDR2 will be around for years and years, but who knows, maybe DDR3 or DDR3455345 could be released this time next year. I'm sure most people would be pissed.

You could also say "Don't play the wait and see game" but then in that sense, you would never buy anything. Oh well, guess I'm just babbling. Vista is still a joke.

 

[djnes]

Windows Vista: Still a joke. It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources and gives you a 50/50 chance of finding working drivers? Wait until SP1 comes out, which will prolly be the start of next year.

I'm starting to think people post comments like this just to be funny, because they can't possibly be serious.

Anyhoo, to the OP. I'd go for Vista right now. First off, it saves you from buying it later on, as it sounds like you've budgeted for it now. Secondly, I'm not sure where people are getting their info, but Vista runs pretty damn good. Yes, it uses more hardware resources, but it uses them effectively. If you have an application that doesn't play nice, set up a virtual machine using Virtual PC 2007 and run Windows 2000 in it.

 

[digital_exhaust]

Now.

And I really cannot believe that there are still people posting about Vista's hardware usage. As said before, it uses it efficiently, and that is a good thing. And saying that Vista is just like XP "but more hardware demanding" is just stupid. It's nothing like XP... at all...in any way... and I imagine the only way someone could even say that is if they have never, ever used Vista.. even for a few minutes...

Move to Vista now... I think you'll be glad you did..

 

[six_storm]

I say that anyone who doesn't see how Vista is more hardware demanding is blind. I got a free copy of Vista Business from my university and experimented with it for a month straight. It does work well, I won't lie to ya, but even on my setup, there aren't ANY SOUND DRIVERS! Not for my on-board sound, nor for my Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit PCI card. There goes the idea of gaming, there goes the idea for web surfing and pretty much, the computer is useless. Also, just doing a little gaming benchmarking and just all around benchmarking, Vista does constantly use more hardware resources than XP does, even when idle. I went back to XP a little after a month and finally went back to Linux.

Like I said in the previous post, Vista is still a joke, it's still in beta. I'm glad that it's working for some, but there are still a ton of problems, one being that there are NO DRIVERS. If you are a hardcore gamer, stick with XP for a little while until MS can get their sh*t straight. Heck, screw that. Go get Vista and try it out. It's still a 50/50 shot that your stuff will even work due to drivers.

 

[markt435]

Like I said in the previous post, Vista is still a joke, it's still in beta. I'm glad that it's working for some, but there are still a ton of problems, one being that there are NO DRIVERS. If you are a hardcore gamer, stick with XP for a little while until MS can get their sh*t straight. Heck, screw that. Go get Vista and try it out. It's still a 50/50 shot that your stuff will even work due to drivers.

riiigggght...i guess that music coming out of my speakers is just my imagination. all these games installed on my system must not be able to play....with the exception of COD2 multiplayer. get your facts straight man...geez.

 

[LhasaCM]

I say that anyone who doesn't see how Vista is more hardware demanding is blind. I got a free copy of Vista Business from my university and experimented with it for a month straight. It does work well, I won't lie to ya, but even on my setup, there aren't ANY SOUND DRIVERS! Not for my on-board sound, nor for my Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit PCI card.

That's the hardware manufacturer's fault for not supporting the OS, and will take time. However, Soundblaster does have drivers (now) for its Live! 24-bit PCI card (http://193.95.171.84/SRVS/CGI-BIN/W...VARSET=ws:http://asia.creative.com,case=14186 has the full list of Soundblaster Vista drivers)

 

[digital_exhaust]

I've got a Creative Soundblaster Live! 5.1 series card in one of my machines, and Creative isn't going to release Vista drivers for this card.... ever... but your not going to catch me bitching at Microsoft about it. It's not their fault that Creative has decided it would be good for business to kill off some of their older cards in the hopes that the move to Vista will force us to buy new soundcards.....

Now.... see how that argument can get turned around??

Vista is a new OS, and in some situations (older hardware) upgrades are going to be necessary. I just find it odd that so many are willing to rush out and spend hundreds of dollars on the newest latest and greatest video cards so they can play the newest latest and greatest games at ten billion frames per second and never say a negative word about the developers of those games... I remember reading a review of Doom 3 right before it was released, and the author had commented that the hardware required to run the game maxxed out did not even exist at the time....But when it comes to a new OS these same people seem to expect their older hardware to be 100% compatible and perform as well, if not better than it did with the older OS... it just doesn't make sense.

 

[zacdl]

It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources

I say that anyone who doesn't see how Vista is more hardware demanding is blind. I got a free copy of Vista Business from my university and experimented with it for a month straight. It does work well, I won't lie to ya, but even on my setup, there aren't ANY SOUND DRIVERS!

By all means, no sound drivers= hardware demanding
It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Creative being too lazy to write a Vista driver, or Creative dropping older products?

There goes the idea for web surfing and pretty much, the computer is useless.

Wow, you're 100% right! No sound disables my browser, and renders Vista useless.

Personally, my sound is constantly muted... yet I am sitting here typing this post out, without any sound?!?!? How bizarre is that?

Also, just doing a little gaming benchmarking and just all around benchmarking, Vista does constantly use more hardware resources than XP does, even when idle

You have a firm grip on the obvious... It's funny to see how many people bring this up as a downside to Vista. Yet when I ask them this following question, they have no logical comeback to it:
What is unused hardware resources, such as RAM? Wait- isn't that wasted hardware? That RAM is sitting there, sucking up electricity, not being used? Someone otta do something about that... What a minute- they did. Vista puts every bit of that RAM to use, and doesn't have WASTED RAM sitting idle. This is why Vista runs faster on the same hardware.

but there are still a ton of problems, one being that there are NO DRIVERS.

That's why I actually had to get out my drivers CD when installing XP, and use about five of the drivers just to get XP working with my hardware?
And yet... when I installed Vista on the same machine, I didn't have to install a single driver from a disk. Not a one.

 

[six_storm]

riiigggght...i guess that music coming out of my speakers is just my imagination. all these games installed on my system must not be able to play....with the exception of COD2 multiplayer. get your facts straight man...geez.

Haha, guess you don't have the same hardware as me huh?

That's the hardware manufacturer's fault for not supporting the OS, and will take time. However, Soundblaster does have drivers (now) for its Live! 24-bit PCI card (http://193.95.171.84/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WE...com,case=14186 has the full list of Soundblaster Vista drivers)

I've tried both XP and Vista based drivers for my card and they are a no-go. I can understand if Creative doesn't wanna put out drivers for it (lazy arses) and if ASUS doesn't wanna support their on-board sound. But not everyone can afford a brand new PC. Wonder why tons of people are still sporting P4s? Hmmm....

Vista is a new OS, and in some situations (older hardware) upgrades are going to be necessary. I just find it odd that so many are willing to rush out and spend hundreds of dollars on the newest latest and greatest video cards so they can play the newest latest and greatest games at ten billion frames per second and never say a negative word about the developers of those games... I remember reading a review of Doom 3 right before it was released, and the author had commented that the hardware required to run the game maxxed out did not even exist at the time....But when it comes to a new OS these same people seem to expect their older hardware to be 100% compatible and perform as well, if not better than it did with the older OS... it just doesn't make sense.

But why should I have to upgrade? Why can't I just use my current hardware? I know some companies are money hungry, that's the world of business for ya. I wanna use something that doesn't force me to upgrade every 6 months; I have more impotant uses for my money than PC parts. Sorry that I'm not able to use all of my money to put towards a rig and get to buy the newest, latest and greatest parts. And ya know, many computer users around the world are the same way. They don't wanna have to buy a new PC/laptop every year. And with the new Vista OS, they are being forced to upgrade to a new machine just to run it properly? What a crock of sh*t.

By all means, no sound drivers= hardware demanding
It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Creative being too lazy to write a Vista driver, or Creative dropping older products?

Yeah, try to read my post a little better next time, especially when I talk about benchmarking different things.

Wow, you're 100% right! No sound disables my browser, and renders Vista useless.

Personally, my sound is constantly muted... yet I am sitting here typing this post out, without any sound?!?!? How bizarre is that?

You could live without sound, I cannot. I watch a lot of streaming vids from CNN, thatvideosite, Ebaums and other sites every day. Video without sound = pointless. What about those who are deaf or hard of hearing? Think they'll want Vista on their computer and the sound won't work due to no drivers? Heck no.

You have a firm grip on the obvious... It's funny to see how many people bring this up as a downside to Vista. Yet when I ask them this following question, they have no logical comeback to it:
What is unused hardware resources, such as RAM? Wait- isn't that wasted hardware? That RAM is sitting there, sucking up electricity, not being used? Someone otta do something about that... What a minute- they did. Vista puts every bit of that RAM to use, and doesn't have WASTED RAM sitting idle. This is why Vista runs faster on the same hardware.

I don't want my hardware being maxed out unless I'm using a program such as Photoshop, a game or benchmarking software. Why use that extra power when it's just sitting there? Or heck, even surfing the web? What a waste of resources.

I'm glad that you got your PC to work without installing any drivers or whatever you said, that's fantastic. But your experience cannot account for others unfortuantly.

I didn't mean to turn this thread into something it wasn't intended for, I just posted my opinion and my experience. Obviously, there are alot of Vista humping PC *!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!s and a few fortunate Vista users. If you can't be considerate of other's opinions, why not save webspace and do us all a favor?

 

[digital_exhaust]

But why should I have to upgrade? Why can't I just use my current hardware? I know some companies are money hungry, that's the world of business for ya. I wanna use something that doesn't force me to upgrade every 6 months; I have more impotant uses for my money than PC parts. Sorry that I'm not able to use all of my money to put towards a rig and get to buy the newest, latest and greatest parts. And ya know, many computer users around the world are the same way. They don't wanna have to buy a new PC/laptop every year. And with the new Vista OS, they are being forced to upgrade to a new machine just to run it properly? What a crock of sh*t.

You don't have to upgrade.. but your overall experience with a brand new OS may be better if you do.

But just for fun, let me tell you about the machine I'm posting from right now.

It's a P4 3.0E at stock, 1g generic ram, Creative SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 card that I raped out of an old Dell work machine (that does not work under Vista because, as I said, Creative has chosen not to support this card any longer) ATI X1950pro 256m AGP with an Ultra (hold your breath) X-Connect 500w PSU that hasn't exploded... yet...and a Seagate 80g Barracuda IDE hd and a Western Digital WD120 Cavair IDE hd, and a couple Plextor DVD drives.

Pretty fuckin impressive rig.. huh?

And, it runs Vista Home Premium just fine. Does everything work perfectly? Nope.. but what my point here is that I don't expect it to.. This hardware was designed and built to run XP, back when Vista was just a pipe dream. I didn't intend for you to think I was saying that you needed the latest and greatest hardware to run Vista.. just that it may not run exactly the way you want it to if you are un-willing or unable to upgrade to newer hardware. The fact is that it is not Microsoft's responsibility to design an OS around old hardware.. it is the hardware manufacturers responsibility to either continue to support older hardware by ensuring that there are driver and firmware updates available to those that still use old hardware... or just admit that they are using the release of Vista as justification for forcing obsolescence upon consumers...

It's an OS, it's the one thing you have to have in order to use your machine. If you don't like the way it works or the way it chooses to manage you hardware, fine... there are other options available.. But in reference to the OP's question... with the hardware listed, using XP is a waste... that's all.. It's new hardware that will run Vista very well... it may not run all the applications listed, but it will run the OS very well, and I think that is all that anyone can ask of a company that is responsible for designing an operating system....

And on top of everything else... who, exactly is being forced to use Vista? Someone holding a gun to your head? The only people being forced to use Vista are people buying brand new pre-built machines that come pre-loaded with Vista, and those machines meet the hardware requirements necessary to run Vista well.. so I'm not really sure what "crock of shit" your talking about.

 

[markt435]

obviously not...but making a generalized statement like vista has NO DRIVERS? as i've been saying forever...its not like the hardware companies were surprised by the vista launch. you got problems, call up the hardware company. but calling vista a joke because of something that is beyond MS's control? lol

you wanna install it...check and make sure your hardware is compatible. if its not, wait for it. if it is, i recommend giving it a try at least. meh

 

[zacdl]

But why should I have to upgrade? Why can't I just use my current hardware?

You have to have some pretty darn old hardware to not be able to run Vista. That's pure and simple fact. Just about any modern PC can run Vista. The only difference there may be RAM- as Apps have gotten so huge lately- but that's a cheap upgrade.

Yeah, try to read my post a little better next time, especially when I talk about benchmarking different things.

Oh? And what do you say about benchmarking things? All of us here that have an open mind about Vista have seen the benchmarks... Vista performs better than XP in almost every circumstance.

You could live without sound, I cannot. I watch a lot of streaming vids from CNN, thatvideosite, Ebaums and other sites every day. Video without sound = pointless.

It doesnt cause your browser and whole entire system to just crash though.

What about those who are deaf or hard of hearing? Think they'll want Vista on their computer and the sound won't work due to no drivers?

This proves your logic is flawed. I don't think deaf people care about sound.

I don't want my hardware being maxed out unless I'm using a program such as Photoshop, a game or benchmarking software.

I'll get to the rest of the issues I see in that statement in a second, but I literally laughed when I read "benchmarking software".
So, you don't want your hardware maxed out normally. But for benchmarks, you want it to be.
Now, doesn't that give you a false benchmark?
A benchmark is what your computer is doing under normal operating conditions... Again, your logic is flawed.

Why use that extra power when it's just sitting there?

It's going to use power no matter if it sits there or is used... that's the point- it might as well be doing something rather than sitting there.

Or heck, even surfing the web? What a waste of resources.

Vista gives up RAM when a user needs it. Everything else gets put on hold.

What Vista does when it is putting this RAM to use is essentially speeding your PC up.
It is caching programs you use frequently, to start and operate quicker.
It is indexing your drive- to make searching faster.
It is performing a ton of other stuff that Microsoft won't even tell you about.
It is performing everything XP ever did as well.

I'm glad that you got your PC to work without installing any drivers or whatever you said, that's fantastic. But your experience cannot account for others unfortuantly.

His can account for mine, and several others off the top of my head...
I know of about 40 computers running XP right now that are 100% compatible with Vista (it's a money thing for those computers, but that's not my point).

 

[six_storm]

You don't have to upgrade.. but your overall experience with a brand new OS may be better if you do.

Won't argue with you there, that's a given. But what about people like me who can't afford a new rig but wanna use something like Vista? Guess I'm screwed.

Pretty fuckin impressive rig.. huh?

And, it runs Vista Home Premium just fine. Does everything work perfectly? Nope.. but what my point here is that I don't expect it to.. This hardware was designed and built to run XP, back when Vista was just a pipe dream. I didn't intend for you to think I was saying that you needed the latest and greatest hardware to run Vista.. just that it may not run exactly the way you want it to if you are un-willing or unable to upgrade to newer hardware. The fact is that it is not Microsoft's responsibility to design an OS around old hardware.. it is the hardware manufacturers responsibility to either continue to support older hardware by ensuring that there are driver and firmware updates available to those that still use old hardware... or just admit that they are using the release of Vista as justification for forcing obsolescence upon consumers...

But just think, wouldn't it be a dream come true if Vista worked great on older hardware? That's one reason I love Linux and OSX, it works like magic with older hardware. Again, I'm not fortunate to buy new hardware every six months, heck, even every 3 years! I'm pretty darn sure that a ton of PC users are in the same predicament as I am. Wouldn't that say that most PC users are screwed? Not cool in my book.

It's an OS, it's the one thing you have to have in order to use your machine. If you don't like the way it works or the way it chooses to manage you hardware, fine... there are other options available.. But in reference to the OP's question... with the hardware listed, using XP is a waste... that's all.. It's new hardware that will run Vista very well... it may not run all the applications listed, but it will run the OS very well, and I think that is all that anyone can ask of a company that is responsible for designing an operating system....

This is why I recommended XP. Why not go with something you KNOW is going to work 100%? At least wait for better drivers and better capatibility? That's what I'm waiting on.

And on top of everything else... who, exactly is being forced to use Vista? Someone holding a gun to your head? The only people being forced to use Vista are people buying brand new pre-built machines that come pre-loaded with Vista, and those machines meet the hardware requirements necessary to run Vista well.. so I'm not really sure what "crock of shit" your talking about.

You're right, but I like variety. I like to try out new things. And with saying that, if I really wanna try out Vista in it's entirety, I have to upgrade. That's what I'm saying. I used XP, OSX and Linux everyday, can't you tell I like variety? The only thing that I hate is when it comes to using XP, knowing I have MS's newest OS in my closet sitting around. I can't use it to it's fullest because the drivers either don't work or they aren't there. I'd like to use Vista, I really would. But OSX and Linux are suiting my needs and they do a damn good job. Just letting you know where I'm coming from.

 

[six_storm]

You have to have some pretty darn old hardware to not be able to run Vista. That's pure and simple fact. Just about any modern PC can run Vista. The only difference there may be RAM- as Apps have gotten so huge lately- but that's a cheap upgrade.

AMD Athlon 3200+
1GB RAM
NVIDIA 7600GT
ASUS A8N-SLI
80GB SATA HDD
600Watt Zalman PSU

And still, XP is quicker than Vista in gaming and normal apps like Office, Photoshop, and web browsers like IE and Firefox? Hmmmm . . .

Oh? And what do you say about benchmarking things? All of us here that have an open mind about Vista have seen the benchmarks... Vista performs better than XP in almost every circumstance.

Again, different case of "different hardware, different people".

It doesnt cause your browser and whole entire system to just crash though.

True, but it makes my web experience pointless.

This proves your logic is flawed. I don't think deaf people care about sound.

Whoopsie, didn't mean to type that one. Sorry.

I'll get to the rest of the issues I see in that statement in a second, but I literally laughed when I read "benchmarking software".
So, you don't want your hardware maxed out normally. But for benchmarks, you want it to be.
Now, doesn't that give you a false benchmark?
A benchmark is what your computer is doing under normal operating conditions... Again, your logic is flawed.

So programs like 3dMark and benchmarks built into games don't max out your hardware? That's what I'm saying. Have my PC max out DURING these benchmarks, not when it's left alone while I'm away.

His can account for mine, and several others off the top of my head...
I know of about 40 computers running XP right now that are 100% compatible with Vista (it's a money thing for those computers, but that's not my point).

I know a lot of PCs that are "Vista Capable" but it doesn't mean that they will get the full Vista experience. 2GB of RAM is required? WTF? One thing you guys on here don't look at is the average PC user, one with a rig that might be 1 or 2 years old with 512MB of RAM and on-board graphics. Not everyone has an Alienware or a PC with the same specs.

I can't spend anymore money on tech stuff, I'm getting married in a year and that costs tons for those who know lol. And for the record, Compiz/Beryl > Aero.

 

[zacdl]

You can't stay with your Pentium forever.

You can't expect everything to be held back because of older hardware.

Technology ADVANCES, maning it moves ahead, progresses. It can't just stand still.

AMD Athlon 3200+
1GB RAM
NVIDIA 7600GT
ASUS A8N-SLI
80GB SATA HDD
600Watt Zalman PSU
And still, XP is quicker than Vista in gaming and normal apps like Office, Photoshop, and web browsers like IE and Firefox?

Considering my notebook is pretty close to that (a bit slower, actually), and it runs Vista noticeably faster than XP? Anyone can tell you that here.
Plus, you've already said you haven't even given Vista a real shot since you don't have the Windows startup sounds, so who are you to judge?

Again, different case of "different hardware, different people".

So that's what everyone says when they've been beat now? Interesting...

True, but it makes my web experience pointless.

And I bet most people would disagree with that. You would probably counter saying "my opinion". And my response to that? You're exactly right. Don't come on here claiming Vista is crap when it is your own opinion about it. You are the minority, who has a card that doesn't work. You're further the minority because your sound makes you not switch to Vista.

So programs like 3dMark and benchmarks built into games don't max out your hardware? That's what I'm saying. Have my PC max out DURING these benchmarks, not when it's left alone while I'm away.

That makes no sense... care to elaborate?

2GB of RAM is required? WTF?

I guess you fit in with the rest of the general misinformed public...

One thing you guys on here don't look at is the average PC user, one with a rig that might be 1 or 2 years old with 512MB of RAM and on-board graphics.

Wow, you just described my notebook, which happens to run faster with Vista!

 

[six_storm]

You can't stay with your Pentium forever.

You can't expect everything to be held back because of older hardware.

Technology ADVANCES, maning it moves ahead, progresses. It can't just stand still.

I understand that, I really do. But unfortuantly there are a few of us who have other things that we have to spend our hard earned money on. Sometimes we have to put our money somewhere else instead of feeding our dollar bills into the floppy drive . . . (think about it lol).

It still amazes me how Beryl on older hardware looks so much better than Aero, it really blows my mind. Why can't other companies code their OS + apps to work better with PCs? If Linux can do it, why can't Windows?

 

[six_storm]

Considering my notebook is pretty close to that (a bit slower, actually), and it runs Vista noticeably faster than XP? Anyone can tell you that here.
Plus, you've already said you haven't even given Vista a real shot since you don't have the Windows startup sounds, so who are you to judge?

Go back and read my few first posts. I ran Vista primarily for 30-60 days straight for testing purposes, therefore I have a valid opinion on it.

So that's what everyone says when they've been beat now? Interesting...

When they've been beat? Nobody's been beat. I'm just stating my opinion and experiences.

And I bet most people would disagree with that. You would probably counter saying "my opinion". And my response to that? You're exactly right. Don't come on here claiming Vista is crap when it is your own opinion about it. You are the minority, who has a card that doesn't work. You're further the minority because your sound makes you not switch to Vista.

Minority? So there are more Vista users than any other OS out there huh? Yeah right. Guess two could play at this game though: "Don't come on here claiming that Vista is the best there ever was when it is your own opinion about it."

That makes no sense... care to elaborate?

Makes perfect sense. Who wants their machine completely stressed out and maxed out when they click a hyperlink? Definitly not me.

I guess you fit in with the rest of the general misinformed public...

Guess you and some others could fit in with the rest of the PC fan-boy clique as well, but I'm not a labeler.

Wow, you just described my notebook, which happens to run faster with Vista!

And that's great, I'm seriously happy for you. I'm glad that Vista works out for you. Can you at least be considerate enough to respect my opinion? Or do you have to be yet another mindless PC ass-hat who creams at the looks of Aero's glassy theme?

 

[djnes]

And still, XP is quicker than Vista in gaming and normal apps like Office, Photoshop, and web browsers like IE and Firefox? Hmmmm . . .

You might want to do a little more reading on Vista before throwing this nugget out for all to see. While I might be inclined to agree with you for gaming, which fault still lies with the drivers, office apps DO run more efficiently in Vista. Vista has much better memory management, and all kinds of fetching and optimizations behind it to speed up programs you use most often.

 

[william_fontaine]

Based on your last sentence, six_storm, I don't think anyone is going to respect your opinion.

 

[digital_exhaust]

Based on your last sentence, six_storm, I don't think anyone is going to respect your opinion.

Yeah, I agree with that. Name calling and all of the creative editing of quoted posts makes it almost impossible for six_storm to retain any credibility... and sadly this thread has, once again, turned into someones soap-box, just another opportunity to bash Vista and blame Microsoft for things that aren't their fault.

Six_storm... if your biggest gripe with Vista is it's inability to run on older hardware, I'm afraid that you don't really have a leg to stand on. There are a lot of us here running Vista on older hardware just fine.. I am a perfect example. You took the time to edit out my system specs when you quoted my post, and that basically made your response worthless. You ask if it would be a "dream come true" if Vista ran on older hardware.... after I explained that in my experience, it does.... I just don't understand your train of thought on this topic. You ask questions, your given answers, and then you twist those answers around to suit your needs... and then ultimately resort to name calling...

That's not going to get you anywhere....

 

[six_storm]

Honestly, I don't expect any kind of respect because I'm not a hardcore PC gamer/Windows user, I could've told you that up front. Many people on here gasp at the thought of someone using anything non-Windows and automatically resort in a "Well who gives a sh*t about that guy" attitude. I don't expect any respect at all, but you could at least let a guy throw his opinion out on the table like everyone else.

But even though I use all 4 major OSs every single day, I feel like I have a valid opinion on OS discussion. Vista doesn't really work for me, hardware/driver wise, therefore I don't use it. XP works like a charm because it's a matured OS and it works for my gaming needs. Guess what I'm saying is that I have my experiences and preferences just like everyone else, but if they are void and flawed logic like everyone says, then so is yours. Simple as that. Oh that's right, I'm not a hardcore Vista/XP user / PC Gamer so anything I've said is null. I forgot.

P.S. Sorry for getting this thread sidetracked, I'm apologizing for others that have posted in here.

 

[zacdl]

Many people on here gasp at the thought of someone using anything non-Windows and automatically resort in a "Well who gives a sh*t about that guy" attitude.

You need to realize most everyone here has tried OS X, or Linux, or any other distro.

Some might disagree, but I think the majority would agree when I say that Windows is simply the best thing out there for your day to day operation, hence why it's used so much around here (and the rest of the world). I personally dislike Linux, and avoid it if at all possible, but that doesn't mean I formed that opinion by never even touching it (it was actually the other way around... I thought it was pretty darned cool until I actually used it enough to form a valid opinion).
But I'm not going to make up lies and spread crap about Linux simply because I dislike it.
I'm not going to make stuff up about it in order to convince someone else of my opinion.

If someone uses a *Nix distro daily, and likes it, good for them. I would actually consider running Ubuntu on a spare PC if I had the room for it.

But don't assume we all use Windows and hate everything else. Every single one of us that you have branded as "Windows-huggers" could give you a list of things we don't like about it.

You are not spreading your "opinion" around. You are spreading false crap.

 

[six_storm]

Some might disagree, but I think the majority would agree when I say that Windows is simply the best thing out there for your day to day operation, hence why it's used so much around here (and the rest of the world).

You're right, Windows is the most popular OS in the world. Microsoft got in consumer's homes at the time PCs became a "must have" and when they had the best OS out there.

[quoteI personally dislike Linux, and avoid it if at all possible, but that doesn't mean I formed that opinion by never even touching it (it was actually the other way around... I thought it was pretty darned cool until I actually used it enough to form a valid opinion).
But I'm not going to make up lies and spread crap about Linux simply because I dislike it.[/quote]

I've been around here for quite a while and other message boards enough to see that most hardcore PC gamers/enthusiasts are this way. Heck, I used to be that way until Windows started giving me sh*t for years of loyalty. That's when the alternative became the most appealing.

I'm not going to make stuff up about it in order to convince someone else of my opinion.

Who's making stuff up? All I've done is put out what I've seen, what I've tested, what I've experienced. That's all, no fiction about it. I'm not trying to convince anybody that Vista is the world worst OS, but rather (to the thread starter) to hold off a little while and let Vista mature. Why not stick with XP, a guaranteed and matured OS, for a little while longer to make sure your apps and games are going to work properly. Vista is not mature enough right now for every single user to have his/her hardware and software to work 100% on it. Take a look around these forums and others to see the different problems people are having.

If someone uses a *Nix distro daily, and likes it, good for them. I would actually consider running Ubuntu on a spare PC if I had the room for it.

Ubuntu is a great distro, it's amazing what you can get for an OS for free.

But don't assume we all use Windows and hate everything else. Every single one of us that you have branded as "Windows-huggers" could give you a list of things we don't like about it.

I'm glad that you aren't a f-a-n-b-o-y and don't hump Vista 50x a day. I'm glad that you hopefully can give a list of things wrong with Windows (I don't really know you that much lol)

You are not spreading your "opinion" around. You are spreading false crap.

Sigh . . . how many times do I have to explain myself? Oh well, it's apparently going through one ear and out the other for some.

 

[LhasaCM]

Sigh . . . how many times do I have to explain myself? Oh well, it's apparently going through one ear and out the other for some.

I think the problem is one of tone. Some of the earlier posts in this thread from you are quite extreme in nature. For example (and yes, I'm picking the "worst" portions just to highlight this point):

Windows Vista: Still a joke. It's just like XP, just more hardware demanding. Why upgrade to an OS that takes more hardware resources and gives you a 50/50 chance of finding working drivers? Wait until SP1 comes out, which will prolly be the start of next year.

I'm glad that it's working for some, but there are still a ton of problems, one being that there are NO DRIVERS.

While in retrospect I think you were just trying to explain your own experiences, your posts read as if you believe your experiences mirror the world's when that is not the case. Hence, back and forth pointless banter where people attack a blanket statement while you try to defend your opinion. (And it's something we all can be guilty of...it just gets more noticed when you're in the minority.)

 

[Finn]

Vista is the next Windows ME. It will disappear from the shelves in 2-3 years and be laughed upon later.

 

[markt435]

i knew i was gonna see linux in here somewhere....sigh

this isn't a linux thread. you wanna talk about it, make your own thread.

 

[markt435]

Vista is the next Windows ME. It will disappear from the shelves in 2-3 years and be laughed upon later.

i doubt it

 

[djnes]

Vista is the next Windows ME. It will disappear from the shelves in 2-3 years and be laughed upon later.

So all you do is troll around and spread more FUD?

 

[digital_exhaust]

Vista is the next Windows ME. It will disappear from the shelves in 2-3 years and be laughed upon later.

I suppose that's your opinion.. which of course is fine, we all have our own opinions.

My opinion is that the quote above is the dumbest statement I have seen yet in this thread. If your going to say things like that I think you should at least back it up with a few reasonable comparisons of the two, or perhaps an opinion or two... something, anything.. but to just blurt that out.... well......

 

[markt435]

I suppose that's your opinion.. which of course is fine, we all have our own opinions.

My opinion is that the quote above is the dumbest statement I have seen yet in this thread. If your going to say things like that I think you should at least back it up with a few reasonable comparisons of the two, or perhaps an opinion or two... something, anything.. but to just blurt that out.... well......

eh...i think the "comparisons" have been made enough in other threads. it will get deeper into ignorance if he tries to back it up lol

 

[digital_exhaust]

it will get deeper into ignorance if he tries to back it up lol

My point..exactly. It's easy to blurt out... impossible to back up

 

[Finn]

I guess we'll see in 2-3 years.

 

[markt435]

guess you wont be playing crysis or any other DX10 game that comes out for long will you? oh well...thats your choice. me? i'd like to keep advancing....and i'm fairly sure the rest of the industry does as well. now if only hardware companies would stop dicking around with their drivers...