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Why a MAC?

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pistola said:
This question comes up more than it should.

I am a cross platfrom user, I own and use bot Mac and PC, OSX, and Windows. Frist off just remember that Windows is a Pirated version of the Mac OS. Also everything that Windows has and will have, the Mac OS had it frist, always happens. Macs are industry standard in most of the media fields. If you go to a TV station 9 times out of 10 they are using Macs. Graphic Design firms, Macs. The Film industry. Macs. Music industry, Macs. This is because software that is only available for the mac systems. Like Quark Express, Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack, ProTools, Motion, Reason... and like a million more that put any PC program that does the same thing to shame.

But,
Macs aren't good that great for 3d, like they have Cinema 4d, but the hardware isn't really meant to handle 3d well. A PC can handle 3d much better than a mac can, due to the range of high end video cards avaiable for windows based systems. (Quadro, and FireGL). Also theres not many games that get ported to the Mac system.

The way I look at it is, Macs are professonal machines, where as PCs are more for play.
I perfer macs over PCs, but my love for games makes me use the PC more often that the Mac.
Click to expand...

I am also a PC/Mac user and my standard answer is I work on my Mac and play on my PC which is basicaly what I do....with the new systems that have come out (G5s) games are more of an option...as for not many games getting ported...I would have to disagree with that...they are there but in the past they didn't come out as fast as the PC version...they are getting better about quicker releases since it is becoming more of a game friendly platform
 
I just got my first mac since a performa powerpc 6115CD ... my new 15" Powerbook. I must say I am AMAZED by this machine. It's silent, fast, stable -- and runs open source programs almost natively. It has a port system like bsd, can run xfree86 in windowed or as it's own desktop. I love this thing! The battery life is great, the size is great, the performance is amazing. I priced around on laptops and really think this thing was a good deal for what you get. Try it, you'll never look back. My desktop is used almost exclusively for games now.
 
To say that it's harder to code malware for Mac OS is just not true. Because a lot of the underlying code is open source, it is in fact easier to code exploits to take advantage of vulnerabilities. Just because there are not a lot of viruses floating around doesn't mean your system isn't vulnerable.

And most priviledge escalation attacks don't exploit the root account. They exploit processes that use suid improperly...
 
I have dual G5 at work and it's great to edit video on but I would never consider buying one for my home. I can't stand the OS, it's horrible. And I wouldn't really call it super reliable as my G5 usually locks up/crashes a couple times a week. My G4 would do the same thing.
 
and there has been a bit of malware that HAS been found in the wild...anybody try downloading that pirate copy of Office 2004? don't as it will wipe your home directory...so there is stuff out there but I think anybody who get caught in something like that gets what they deserve
 
gigglebyte said:
and there has been a bit of malware that HAS been found in the wild...anybody try downloading that pirate copy of Office 2004? don't as it will wipe your home directory...so there is stuff out there but I think anybody who get caught in something like that gets what they deserve
Click to expand...

This is true, but again it's not "as bad" as on a windows platform.

Basically, its like the lame trojan attempts that appear for other unix based OS's.
It can only affect the portions of the OS that particular user has access to. (Which is why they say 'never run as root')
All it really does is deliver a payload of rm -rf ~, and since thats really all the current user has access to, that's all it affects. Of course, it is quite traumatic to someone that doesn't know the ins & outs of unix.

My standard response to the overall question is this (and many here follow my mindset):
A computer is a tool. You use it for whatever job needs to get done.

Some people feel the need to use a giant crescent wrench to remove their sink drain, when channel locks or a monkey wrench will do... Either one works fine though.
(Sorry, i've been doing plumbing all weekend)


Also, it's nice to see that we are having a civil discussion.
 
Genocidal said:
I have dual G5 at work and it's great to edit video on but I would never consider buying one for my home. I can't stand the OS, it's horrible. And I wouldn't really call it super reliable as my G5 usually locks up/crashes a couple times a week. My G4 would do the same thing.
Click to expand...

As a matter of me being curious, what is it you don't like about the OS?

And if it crashes or locks up a couple of times per week, something is horribly wrong. I have an iMac with a semi-broken hard drive that dies when it overheats, and I can still get weeks of uptime before the broken HD forces me to reboot... yes, I know, I should replace it, but I'm lazy. With my old computer, the only need for reboot I had was that it was noisy. It never crashed or locked up.

anybody try downloading that pirate copy of Office 2004? don't as it will wipe your home directory
Click to expand...
Anyone who thinks a few kilobytes large AppleScript application to be Office 2004 before it's even released doesn't deserve to have a functioning computer. Such cases is where I want a licence requirement for computers.

But yeah, I forgot about that one. That was the first caught-in-the-wild Trojan for Mac OS X... not a very dangerous one, by any means, and it doesn't spread automatically.
 
Frist off just remember that Windows is a Pirated version of the Mac OS. Also everything that Windows has and will have, the Mac OS had it frist, always happens.
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Umm, it smells in here. Stop talking out yer arse. Windows has fast user switching first, that's just a quick example. There are plenty of things they didn't take from Apple, even some things went the other way. You can say Apple has put more effort (with the OS X line) in putting more nice UI features in, but to call Windows a copycat is more or less lunacy (at least 80% lunacy I should say :)).

Macs are industry standard in most of the media fields. If you go to a TV station 9 times out of 10 they are using Macs. Graphic Design firms, Macs. The Film industry. Macs. Music industry, Macs. This is because software that is only available for the mac systems.
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The major reason for that is tradition. Not necessarily because Macs are better, because they're not. But it's traditional that Apples have been used in those areas, the early software was almost exclusively written on the Apple platform and they've got an established user base. But it's important to realize it's not because of a performance difference or any major advantages any more, it's just not cost effective to retrain the workforce in many places.

As you may have seen, there's the silly stickers that say "Crash Different," well that's pretty accurate. Both systems can be unstable, however if you're having to reboot any system, Mac or PC two or three times a week then there's something wrong that can be fixed. I have an almost 3 yr old laptop that gets put in sleep or hibernate and the total uptime between reboots (aside from sleep and hibernate) has frequently been measured in months.
 
I talked to someone who had a computer with an uptime of over two years... a customized version of Debian. Mac OS and Windows have both come a LONG way when it comes to stability, but they're still horribly unstable compared to some things...
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
I talked to someone who had a computer with an uptime of over two years... a customized version of Debian. Mac OS and Windows have both come a LONG way when it comes to stability, but they're still horribly unstable compared to some things...
Click to expand...

This is true. But for most users I really think the "mass produced" OS has come to age with win2k/OS X.
 
emorphien said:
This is true. But for most users I really think the "mass produced" OS has come to age with win2k/OS X.
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Agreed. Which is "best" is mostly a matter of your personal preferences, your workflow and, of course, what you do.
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
Agreed. Which is "best" is mostly a matter of your personal preferences, your workflow and, of course, what you do.
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which is why I use both XP pro and OS X
 
Am I the only one who likes Mac OS 9 better than X? Actually, OS X Server was really nice, too bad they didn't stick with it...
 
Maximus825 said:
Am I the only one who likes Mac OS 9 better than X?
Click to expand...
Oh yes! I really do not like Mac OS pre-X.

gigglebyte said:
which is why I use both XP pro and OS X
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If I had the need (or desire) and budget, I'd use both without a second thought. But I currently have no need what-so-ever for anything Windows/x86 exclusive, so I won't bother... I suppose, if money wasn't an issue, that I'd get a Wintendo, but I don't game enough to justify something like that. Hell, I still use my SNES more for games than my computer. :p

Torquemada XP said:
I don't use Apple computers, but even I know it's not MAC. ;)
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:D
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
Not this again... :rolleyes:

I was hoping we wouldn't have to put up with lame attempts at trolling more, but....
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It wasn't a lame attempt at trolling, it was a simple question. Thank you.
 
The only good Switch parody I've seen is the Dark Side Switch.

"My name is Anakin Skywalker, and I'm a Sith Lord." :D


I find the one posted particularly dull since most of it's true... about Mac OS 9. ;)
If they're gonna make fun of the OS, they should try to stay up to date a little.
 
Here are the only arguments I see from the mac side, and my answer

* "More stable"

I'm a hardcore overclocker, i screw with my system CONSTANTLY, I'm always at 100% load, and I havent had a blue screen for YEARS. Why? Because i'm not DUMB. you have to be dumb to crash a windows system.

* "Better looking"

Because when I'm doing work, or playing a game, or surfing the internet, I really care that i use an OS that has patented transparent windows

* "Faster"

Just no. Slower hardware, PROPRITARY hardware (Apple is the biggest hypocrite in the computer industry), and an OS that, every time I've used it, from crappy Compusa displays, to dual processor video editing machines, to home user's computers, its never been faster than windows.

* "Macs are very fast for graphic applications, and just as fast for desktop applications." (from beginning of thread)

Maybe a few years ago, but not today. Again, Mac has slower hardware, this is PROVEN. So if theres not that, then name one way theyre better.



So my point is, Mac offers NO advantage over PC. Any of the "super" programs mac has for media stuff, PC has an equal or better counterpart. I dont care what my OS looks like really, and if you do, please put the computer down and go back to fixing your hair and makeup.
 
Don't get me started about how my school's college of Journalism still refuses to let go of their crusty expensive macs.
 
kronchev said:
Here are the only arguments I see from the mac side, and my answer

* "More stable"

I'm a hardcore overclocker, i screw with my system CONSTANTLY, I'm always at 100% load, and I havent had a blue screen for YEARS. Why? Because i'm not DUMB. you have to be dumb to crash a windows system.

* "Better looking"

Because when I'm doing work, or playing a game, or surfing the internet, I really care that i use an OS that has patented transparent windows

* "Faster"

Just no. Slower hardware, PROPRITARY hardware (Apple is the biggest hypocrite in the computer industry), and an OS that, every time I've used it, from crappy Compusa displays, to dual processor video editing machines, to home user's computers, its never been faster than windows.

* "Macs are very fast for graphic applications, and just as fast for desktop applications." (from beginning of thread)

Maybe a few years ago, but not today. Again, Mac has slower hardware, this is PROVEN. So if theres not that, then name one way theyre better.



So my point is, Mac offers NO advantage over PC. Any of the "super" programs mac has for media stuff, PC has an equal or better counterpart. I dont care what my OS looks like really, and if you do, please put the computer down and go back to fixing your hair and makeup.
Click to expand...

In repsonse to your comments
* More stable
Yes, YOU know how to operate/tweak and fix your PC. the majority of the computing society does not. Keep in mind that you, as an overclocker and extreme gamer, are in the minority.

* better looking
Again, this all your personal opinion. Myself, I like the way X looks in panther. I don't particularly like the old fruity X, nor do I like WinXP.

* Faster
Clock speed is a myth. Inherently it means a lot less in the grand scheme of the architecture than what you are led to believe. Is an intel p4 3.4 faster than a 2.5Ghz G5?
MHz wise, yes. Application wise? That depends on a WHOLE slew of factors. Not photoshop, not 3dmark... a lot of outside determinants are involved.

Also, The only thing proprietary in a Mac is the motherboard and CPU. Everything else is industry standard.
The only drawback is the need for drivers, and in some cases a bios. But then on the PC side, without proper support you have limited use hardware as well.


Please, I ask you NOT TO TROLL in the apple forum. This goes for everyone.
This conversation is slowly leading off-track.
 
Stability:
macs os is very stable but windows has been very stable since 2000. it would be hard to say that one is more stable than the other. i would however say that mac os is more secure than windows. not many trojans/viruses are targeted towards mac os.

Performance:
You cant compare the performance of a mac vs. a pc. they are two totally different computers. it would make more sense to compare a ibm rs6000 workstation to a mac g5 than it would for a pc to a mac. macs are the most responsive comptuers ive used. even a g4 ~1ghz is more responsive in mac os then a 3+ghz pc with raid 0 drives running windows xp.

Look:
i have not seen any retail pc's that look as good as a mac. that includes alienware and other custom pc companies
 
* "More stable"

I'm a hardcore overclocker, i screw with my system CONSTANTLY, I'm always at 100% load, and I havent had a blue screen for YEARS. Why? Because i'm not DUMB. you have to be dumb to crash a windows system.

As KaosDG said, you know what you're doing. The majority is absolutely clueless about computers, and Mac OS X can takes much more of a beating than Windows XP without becoming unstable.

* "Better looking"

Because when I'm doing work, or playing a game, or surfing the internet, I really care that i use an OS that has patented transparent windows

I can't say I really give a crap about how the OS looks. I'd rather use a Mac OS X with the graphics of Windows than the other way around. It's something much less tangible that makes Mac OS X superior in my eyes; the User Interface. It's not how the button looks, but where it is and what it does.

* "Faster"

Just no. Slower hardware, PROPRITARY hardware (Apple is the biggest hypocrite in the computer industry), and an OS that, every time I've used it, from crappy Compusa displays, to dual processor video editing machines, to home user's computers, its never been faster than windows.

This varies greatly, but you generally get more computer for the money with a cheapo PC. But again, you're saying you're an extreme overclocker and such. You've probably spent quite a lot on that hobby, yes? The price argument hardly works for one such as yourself. The Total Cost of Ownership is generally lower with a Mac, according to all the info I've seen.

* "Macs are very fast for graphic applications, and just as fast for desktop applications." (from beginning of thread)

Maybe a few years ago, but not today. Again, Mac has slower hardware, this is PROVEN. So if theres not that, then name one way theyre better.

The dual G5:s are the fastest for some things... Video editing, for instance. I've seen lots of benchmarks for it, and a G5 with FCP beats an x86 hands down quite handily. Not a fair comparison, perhaps, since FCP is Mac-only, but if the best application is available for only one system, you might want that system...



So my point is, Mac offers NO advantage over PC. Any of the "super" programs mac has for media stuff, PC has an equal or better counterpart.

Your point is, simply put, a rash assumption. I can do more in less time and enjoy the experience more with a Mac than the fastest x86 running Windows in the world. In my experience, apps like Photoshop are vastly superior for Mac, even if they're technically faster on a PC. Again, however, you must remember that the only PCs faster than G5s in stuff like this generally are equally expensive dual processor Xeons or Opterons.


I dont care what my OS looks like really, and if you do, please put the computer down and go back to fixing your hair and makeup.

And by that last remark, you've automatically made all your points null and void. Insults have no place here.
 
The dual G5:s are the fastest for some things... Video editing, for instance. I've seen lots of benchmarks for it, and a G5 with FCP beats an x86 hands down quite handily. Not a fair comparison, perhaps, since FCP is Mac-only, but if the best application is available for only one system, you might want that system...
Click to expand...
I'd hesitate to call FCP the best, not by a long shot.

Your point is, simply put, a rash assumption. I can do more in less time and enjoy the experience more with a Mac than the fastest x86 running Windows in the world. In my experience, apps like Photoshop are vastly superior for Mac, even if they're technically faster on a PC. Again, however, you must remember that the only PCs faster than G5s in stuff like this generally are equally expensive dual processor Xeons or Opterons.
Click to expand...
Price for performance with Apple is generally quite high, although the G5s are probably second best behind the iBook. The biggest flaw with the G5 systems is the low specs on some things given the price. $3k from some vendors could get you a dual Opteron system with a gig of RAM and two HDDs. From Apple it gets you 512 RAM and 1 hard drive.

In some things even a fast single processor x86 or x86 64 will meet or beat the G5, but this a much less expensive system and it would be illogical to expect that across the board. I generally find photoshop more responsive and faster in heavy processing on a fast PC (x86 system) with ample RAM for some opertations than even a dual G5. It's not a hardware problem, it's a difference in how the software runs in each. I work with very large multi-layered files frequently, and generally an x86 system is preferable to me in those situations.

Ultimately though there's not a whole lot of difference, and since I know how to build my own and tweak it then obviously doing so is the logical choice. When I make my first million I'll build a dual Opteron and buy a dual G5. That way I can have my two favorite workstations. :)
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
* "More stable"

I'm a hardcore overclocker, i screw with my system CONSTANTLY, I'm always at 100% load, and I havent had a blue screen for YEARS. Why? Because i'm not DUMB. you have to be dumb to crash a windows system.

As KaosDG said, you know what you're doing. The majority is absolutely clueless about computers, and Mac OS X can takes much more of a beating than Windows XP without becoming unstable.
Click to expand...

How do? I dont know what people do to XP to make it unstable. Case in point: my dads not a big computer person, he likes to think he is but he really doesnt know what hes doing half the time. He has had the same install of XP HOME for 2 years now. I dont see how people can beat an XP install into the ground unless theyre deliberatly deleting stuff and if they are, even when theyre told "if you dont know what it is dont touch it", im not so sure they deserve ANY computer

* "Better looking"

Because when I'm doing work, or playing a game, or surfing the internet, I really care that i use an OS that has patented transparent windows

I can't say I really give a crap about how the OS looks. I'd rather use a Mac OS X with the graphics of Windows than the other way around. It's something much less tangible that makes Mac OS X superior in my eyes; the User Interface. It's not how the button looks, but where it is and what it does.
Click to expand...

OSX has only annoyed me with buttons and whatnot. Its not obvious what does what, or where things are. that thing that comes up when you put the cursor on the side of the screen has pissed off a lot of my friends more than me, when theyre going for a scroll bar (since schools for some reason keep going back to mac)

* "Faster"

Just no. Slower hardware, PROPRITARY hardware (Apple is the biggest hypocrite in the computer industry), and an OS that, every time I've used it, from crappy Compusa displays, to dual processor video editing machines, to home user's computers, its never been faster than windows.

This varies greatly, but you generally get more computer for the money with a cheapo PC. But again, you're saying you're an extreme overclocker and such. You've probably spent quite a lot on that hobby, yes? The price argument hardly works for one such as yourself. The Total Cost of Ownership is generally lower with a Mac, according to all the info I've seen.
Click to expand...

Acutally, I dont think ive put more than 1000 in my computer in the past 3 years, and thats with changing each piece of hardware at least 3 times, breaking numerous pieces by being an idiot, etc etc. My system as it stands could be built for around 600. Being generous (to the macs) and saying that it performs half as well as a new mac, it wins. Why? Because it was appx. 1/6th the price. I could build 6 of these, make a render ranch, and DESTROY a mac, for less than the price of the highest end mac.

* "Macs are very fast for graphic applications, and just as fast for desktop applications." (from beginning of thread)

Maybe a few years ago, but not today. Again, Mac has slower hardware, this is PROVEN. So if theres not that, then name one way theyre better.

The dual G5:s are the fastest for some things... Video editing, for instance. I've seen lots of benchmarks for it, and a G5 with FCP beats an x86 hands down quite handily. Not a fair comparison, perhaps, since FCP is Mac-only, but if the best application is available for only one system, you might want that system...
Click to expand...

this is coming from many people who are majors in this sort of thing "Final Cut Pro SUCKS." Many people like Premiere more, and in any case, Avid destroys it soundly.


So my point is, Mac offers NO advantage over PC. Any of the "super" programs mac has for media stuff, PC has an equal or better counterpart.

Your point is, simply put, a rash assumption. I can do more in less time and enjoy the experience more with a Mac than the fastest x86 running Windows in the world. In my experience, apps like Photoshop are vastly superior for Mac, even if they're technically faster on a PC. Again, however, you must remember that the only PCs faster than G5s in stuff like this generally are equally expensive dual processor Xeons or Opterons.
Click to expand...

A dual opteron system that will beat a mac is under 1500. How you can "do more" with the exact same app? Again if ones faster, and both are stable, how can you do more in the same app?

I dont care what my OS looks like really, and if you do, please put the computer down and go back to fixing your hair and makeup.

And by that last remark, you've automatically made all your points null and void. Insults have no place here.
Click to expand...

Not an insult, an observation. If youre that stuck on appearances, then, well, you are the kind who are fixing their hair and wondering if their shirt matches their pants.
 
kronchev said:
Not an insult, an observation. If youre that stuck on appearances, then, well, you are the kind who are fixing their hair and wondering if their shirt matches their pants.
Click to expand...

And on that note, I am closing this thread.

kronchev, consider this a warning.

You've kept your debates civil up until the name calling.

It's not tolerated in this forum. By any means.
 
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