where to get started in programming

[sikopath]

Since the search function is broke, I am going to ask this here. Where is a good place to start getting into programming? I am pretty knowledgable when it comes to hardware, but I wanted to get into the dark side of computing. hehehe.

Is there a huge difference in programming languages. I just bought a book on C++ .net. Is this an ok place to learn? I have read a few chapters and I am totally lost.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
sikopath

 

[STL]

> Where is a good place to start getting into programming?

1. Choose a good language.
2. Get a good compiler.
3. Get many good books.
4. Get the relevant standards.
5. Write many programs. Repeat.

> Is there a huge difference in programming languages.

Yes.

> I just bought a book on C++ .net. Is this an ok place to learn?

I would say no. Others would disagree.

> I have read a few chapters and I am totally lost.

Heh.

My suggestions:

1. Choose a good language. <== Modern, Standard C++. (An update to the C++ Standard was recently released.) Learn "strictly conforming" C++ before you go off and do implementation-dependent things (GNU/Linux programming, Windows programming, socket programming, GUI programming, .NET programming).

2. Get a good compiler. <== gcc on GNU/Linux, MinGW gcc on Windows.

3. Get many good books. <== C++ Primer Plus 4th Edition by Stephen Prata, The C++ Programming Language Special Edition by Bjarne Stroustrup, C++ FAQs 2nd Edition by Cline, Lomow, and Girou, Effective C++ Second Edition by Scott Meyers, More Effective C++ by Scott Meyers, Effective STL by Scott Meyers.

Yes, that's a lot of books. No, you don't need them all at once, but you should eventually get at least those (and more, if you ask me). Getting a compiler can be free, but you will have to pay money to get good books. You can't learn to be a good programmer without reading good books.

4. Get the relevant standards. <== 14882 2003 is available as an $18 PDF.

5. Write many programs. Repeat. <== This is where you come in.

 

[STL]

I should also note that in order to become a good programmer, you need to talk to good programmers and follow the news.

For example, I'm getting pretty good with Standard C++ now. But even so, when I'm writing something, I'm usually pestering ithil and/or Uller on IRC with questions about areas of the language that I haven't worked with deeply yet.

I also follow the development of gcc (the C++ compiler I use) and Boost (the main not-quite-Standard C++ library that I use) rather closely. This gets me acquainted with features that I wouldn't otherwise know about, as well as keeps me informed about compiler and library bugs.

When you begin programming, basically every problem you encounter will be Your Fault. Gradually you will encounter problems that are Stupidity And Cowardice's Fault (i.e. working with systems that generally suck). Finally you will encounter problems that are Someone Else's Fault - compiler or library bugs. You might even encounter defects in the language itself. Knowing about these bugs ahead of time lets you know how to avoid them.

 

[ameoba]

C++.NET would be an OK place to start if you have a book that taught programming with it. Odds are, your book isn't targeted at the newbie crowd but more at the "I know how to program in a half-dozen other C-like languages and want to figure out what's special about this one" crowd.


As for which language to use, you could go the "C++ is the only language you ever need" route that STL preaches, or you could start with an 'easier' language like Python (or Ruby or any of a dozen other non-C++ language). They don't bog you down in so much of the implementation details & often have very good tutorials & reference material online.


Of course, depending on what you want to do, VB might be the 'best' language for you.

 

[sikopath]

I really just want to be knowledgable to everything computers. Programming has always had that carrot out in front of me because I know nothing about it.

I am also wanting to try to learn some PHP, apache, and MySQL eventually. I know those are not really programming or are they? I thought they were used alot in website backends to drive dynamic content.

I am going to try my hand at some easier lower level stuff. I don't want to get so frustrated I quit.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[ameoba]

PHP is programming language, but probably not the best one to start with. It's pretty much limited to web-based stuff. While you -can- use it to write non-web-based apps, it's reccommended that you don't.

SQL is a programming language as well, but it's targeted at solving some very specific types of problems and not particularly suited to general-purpose programming. You're more likely to use a program in some other language to send SQL to a DB server. If you've got Oracle, there's the PL/SQL, which is a lot more general purpose (but still pretty solidly tied to database apps). PL/SQL is kinda like Pascal or Ada that has SQL integrated with the language, or maybe like SQL that's been extended with some Ada/Pascal imperative commands.

Apache is _not_ a programming language, it's a webserver. The webserver can be extended with modules that allow it to interpret programs, but talking about "programming in apache' is pretty much nonsensical.

 

[STL]

> As for which language to use, you could go the "C++ is the only
> language you ever need" route that STL preaches

I don't precisely preach that.

> They don't bog you down in so much of the implementation details

This often-cited critique of C++ as a first language has never made any sense to me, or its brother "having to learn the syntax".

> Of course, depending on what you want to do, VB might be the 'best'
> language for you.

If that's the case, then just stay away from computers. Period.

[sikopath]
> I really just want to be knowledgable to everything computers.

Never going to happen. You have to specialize somewhere. There's too much for any human being to learn in a lifetime.

> I am also wanting to try to learn some PHP, apache, and MySQL
> eventually. I know those are not really programming or are they?

Not real programming, if you ask me. Others would disagree.

> I am going to try my hand at some easier lower level stuff.

"Easier" and "lower level" don't go together.

 

[Schmeg007]

Originally posted by sikopath
I really just want to be knowledgable to everything computers. Programming has always had that carrot out in front of me because I know nothing about it.

I am going to try my hand at some easier lower level stuff. I don't want to get so frustrated I quit.

Thanks for all the input.

You sound like you want to take a pretty casual approach to learning programming, which is typical for those who haven't programmed before. Do you think it would be possible for you to in role in a class and maybe learn the basics of C++ or Java?

Java will be a bit easier to learn, however it is not the most commonly used language in the industry. C++ is a little bit more difficult, but I'd say if you can get into a class that is teaching C++ then you're good to go.

If you can't get into a class, or do not want to take a class, the chances that you will stick with programming long enough so that you can take advantage of it are slim. Don't want to go to class? then get a good C++ book, start reading, and get a Real Life friend who you can go to when you get stuck/frustrated.

 

[Cheetoz]

I've been told many times to start with "basic" before going on to the next...

 

[STL]

[Schmeg007]
> Do you think it would be possible for you to in role in a class

Classes suck for learning how to program.

> Java will be a bit easier to learn

Java sucks.

> C++ is a little bit more difficult

No it's not. :->

> get a Real Life friend who you can go to when you get
> stuck/frustrated.

Or come to IRC...

[Cheetoz]
> I've been told many times to start with "basic" before going on to
> the next...

BASIC sucks. I know - I started with it.

 

[Nanoblaze]

I recommend "How to program C++" 4th edition by Deitel & Deitel. Pretty good book oriented for newbie programmers. If you want A copy, I'll sell you mine for 45..


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-0993529-6078458?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

thats the book.

Also, as STL said: Bjarne stroutstrup writes good c++ books. If you can, go to TAMU university ( College station texas ), and take some courses there, and you can work directly with him. Hes a funny guy.