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Web design rates?

P

pioneer77

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Messages
4,602
I read the first 15 pages of threads and didn't find this topic. I
was just curious what the average rates for freelance web
design were.

I have a guy who wants a site done for his business. I don't
have a problem doing the site, I just haven't charged before. I
didn't want to undercharge or overcharge him.

I figure it can be hourly if it's an ongoing project, or I can come up
with a flat rate. I think I'm going to go for the latter... and it
should be a simple 5 page or so site. Maybe with a map, some
pictures of the business, history, etc. No online shopping with
this one. Plus he has hosting and a domain name already... and
a very 3-year-old, Geocities-esque looking page in place now that
will have to be completely redone.

What do you think would be a fair price?
 
I've toiled with this same question many times.

Overall, I think the answer is the one you don't want to hear: "It depends." :) It depends on how much experience you have, if you plan to do this as a permanent gig, and so on.

For a starting-out Web designer (that is, starting out in the freelance world--even if you've got 5 years of "corporate" or "personal" experience), I'd say a site like that should go for around $500.

You'll hear a lot of people--and I do mean a lot--around here tell you to go for $1000+. But they're not business people, at least many of them aren't. You have to start small. Once you've established yourself, you can begin to increase your prices.

You could make the best Web sites in the world, but so long as a client sees that you're just starting out, they're not willing to pay you much.
 
Originally posted by carl67lp
I've toiled with this same question many times.

Overall, I think the answer is the one you don't want to hear: "It depends." :) It depends on how much experience you have, if you plan to do this as a permanent gig, and so on.
Click to expand...

Agreed..."it depends" :D

You might even need to give an estimate beforehand, giving a certain range that your price might fall in. $500-$700 or something, depending on how much graphic design you do, and how much time you end up spending on it.

You dont want to say $500 right away, and then have it be a project you work on for a month...

Gauge the length of time and amount of support you will be giving in the future as well (i.e. Updates, changes, new graphics), and then make your price reflective of your time.
 
Originally posted by carl67lp
I've toiled with this same question many times.
You could make the best Web sites in the world, but so long as a client sees that you're just starting out, they're not willing to pay you much.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
I do freelance web design to subsidize my cost while at school, and here's how I do it.

I agree with the fellows above that what YOU charge depends greatly on your experience.

However, I have established rates (some hourly and some flat) depending on the tasks requested.

I *always* provide an estimate to my clients before agreeing to do the project. This gives them some dollar figures to wrap their mind around before getting you knee-deep into a project.

This serves two purposes. First, it shows the client up front that this project is going to cost real money. Many don't think about this. They may have a 'rough figure' in the back of their mind, but until they see it on paper, they arent quite sure what it will be.

Second, it prevents you from doing a whole bunch of work and then not getting paid for it. If the client doesnt like the cost, then they have the opportunity to back out or 'trim the fat' on what they want done.

This also gives you a legal basis if they choose later on to be a deadbeat about paying you. If you (heaven forbid) had to file suit against them to collect payment, you have a price quote that was delivered to them before work began. Also, this gives you protection from most price gouging statutes.

As for your rates specifically, be fair. Think about what you know how to do and how to do well and TIMELY.

For example, I can crank out static HTML pages like candy, so I charge a flat rate for them that is on the lower end of the spectrum for what I do. For business minded clients, they can say "well, I need 5 HTML pages at xxx dollars each" and get a fixed-cost project.

However, if it invovles scripting, it's an hourly charge and (depending on language) usually about twice the HTML flate rate per hour.

The biggest thing is to be consistent with your pricing, espescially if you are just starting out and need to depend on recommendations. It's just plain bad business and will give you a bad reputation fast if you charge ACMECorp one price for something and EMCACorp a different price for about the same thing.

hope this helps. it's just my $.02
 
Minimum is $500 for 5 pages or less with nothing other than html maybe 1 formmail page. If it involves a flash or serverside programmed page minumum $800 figure no less than $500 for a basic site. Get the exact needs of what the customer wants if its totally html I wouldnt charge more than say $100 per page. with a 5 page minumum charge. a single flash page or php page goes for about $300 per page for "basic" programming. if you charge cheap because your new than its hard to break out of that "new charge" the next time they need a site they are gonna want to pay the same new guy fee.
 
I'm assuming that since your asking this question, your not a very qualified web designer. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you can build a web page fine and your work will probably be perfect for your new client. I just get the feeling your not "pro" caliber.

Ask yourself what you'd feel to be a fair value for your time. Talk with your client and make sure he understands how much he's paying and what he'll get. You don't want to tell him $300 and then to make 10 revisions because he keeps changing his mind.

If your interested in possibly doing this again in the future, consider doing it for cheap. If your client is happy, ask him to refer others to you that may also need your service. Once you get a couple clients you'll have a nice little portfolio and be able to command more money for your time.

I highly recommend you don't overcharge him just because you think he'll pay. If he finds out you overcharged him you'll lose all future business and any referrals he may have given to you.
 
Originally posted by Madnes5
I'm assuming that since your asking this question, your not a very qualified web designer. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you can build a web page fine and your work will probably be perfect for your new client. I just get the feeling your not "pro" caliber.
Click to expand...

That's certainly not the case with me, although I can't speak for the original poster. They may have come from a similar environment as me: just starting out doing freelance work, coming from a corporate/non-private environment.

Thus, the idea that just 'cause someone doesn't know how much to charge isn't "pro caliber" is a bit off kilter.

Just my $500. ;)
 
Originally posted by coastertux
I charge between 100-200 depending on the workload. My site is J2S Design .
Click to expand...

and it shows in your work. ;) wasn't much though put in to the layout. Took all of what 1 hour to do that site? If your gonna claim coasterdome make sure logikai doesnt find out.
 
If you read our description, it says:
J2S developed and coded the entire backend for Coasterdom, including a roller coaster/amusement park database and system for users to keep track of roller coasters they have ridden.
Click to expand...
next to the thumbnail of Coasterdom.
 
my bad i didnt read that the first time around. or did you just add that?
 
About what was just said, you should also charge respective the amount of effort and your current skill level. If you are an intermediate web designer, then you should be charging a bit less than one who has be professionaly designing sites for the last 5 years.
 
Originally posted by svet-am
This also gives you a legal basis if they choose later on to be a deadbeat about paying you. If you (heaven forbid) had to file suit against them to collect payment, you have a price quote that was delivered to them before work began. Also, this gives you protection from most price gouging statutes.
Click to expand...

Svet-am... you kick ass!!! Your post helped me out a lot, too! I'm about to start on a project... similar to the one that the poster said... 5-page... history, about the business, pics, maps, directions, products, etc. Nothing big... I was about to say to them $200 with domain registration included. WTF was I thinking :D

I'm not saying I'm the best... but, for $200 w/ domain registration included... I think I was gonna get underpaid.

Also... what about monthly costs to the client? If I were to give them an hour per week of support, changes, additions, etc.?

Thanks!

Also... the MAIN reason why I quoted you... is:

QUESTION: Do you need to have the client sign the rough estimate as legal proof that they saw it? Otherwise... in court, they could say they never saw it.
 
Originally posted by coastertux
I charge between 100-200 depending on the workload. My site is J2S Design .
Click to expand...

Did you do that Coasterdom image on top? The BLUE BACKGROUND with roller coasters in the front? If so... how?

If not... tell me who... I need to learn from them :D
 
If that header image is beyond your ability, $200 sounds about right for the quality of work you will put out.
 
Originally posted by demografik
If that header image is beyond your ability, $200 sounds about right for the quality of work you will put out.
Click to expand...

How about being helpful and/or useful, instead of a waste of space... why not be supportive and pointing me in the right direction at the very least (ie. what piece of software would I use, which tools, etc.)
 
Well, to clarify, I am not a pro by any means, though like one
poster mentioned I can design an decent webpage when I mean
to. I don't know a lot of scripting (thank goodness) because I
hated programming in CS in college, but I don't intend to take
jobs requiring it either. I'm also not looking to take on a ton of
jobs. 3-4 a year would be fine by me.

I also was not looking to overcharge him or see how much I could
get away with. Which some of the posts here insinuate when
you read between the lines. :)

Anyway, I was mostly curious what he'd pay in industry to an
actual web design business and I was going to undercut that
quite a bit to save him some money.

The $200 you were thinking of charging seems low, RavinDJ, but
it's all relative. $200 to me isn't worth my time, I make enough at
my actual job to not want to kill some of my free time for $200. :)

I think $500 for a decent, well done static 5-7 page site sounds
about good per many here. But I'm going to break it down to
$400 for the site, $100 for custom image work (his company has
no graphical logo as of yet) and an optional $75 for travel to and
from his business (100-200 miles appx.) to take pictures of the
shop for the site.

I don't think he'd get that from a web design company.

Thanks for all the posts and insight from you all.

Also, RavinDJ... this might help you out too... you have to read
through and tailor it for your needs a little here and there, but it's
a very simple basic contract. I don't know if the people in here
who have done freelance would approve of this, but I don't think
it's overly legal-in-your-face IMO. I think anyone you're working
for would respect something simple like this just to protect
yourself. Plus, if they don't like a broken down estimate (I put a
table with rows and columns breaking down costs in the 'Project
goes here' section) and they don't like a contract, maybe you
shouldn't be doing work for them in the first place.

http://graphicdesign.about.com/library/contracts/uccontract4.htm
 
Originally posted by RavinDJ
How about being helpful and/or useful, instead of a waste of space... why not be supportive and pointing me in the right direction at the very least (ie. what piece of software would I use, which tools, etc.)

Douche
Click to expand...

i agree w/you, but you might want to edit your post. mods tend not to like name-calling.
 
Originally posted by RavinDJ
Also... the MAIN reason why I quoted you... is:

QUESTION: Do you need to have the client sign the rough estimate as legal proof that they saw it? Otherwise... in court, they could say they never saw it.
Click to expand...

I can speak from experience in what I said here. I am currently in the process of suing one of my deadbeat clients for non-payment.

The clerk that filed my paperwork was very impressed by the detail of my logs that I kept. From the timelog for phone calls, email transcripts with my client, the work timelog, the signed quotes, etc.

The bottom line is to just be careful and methodical and CYA. ;)
 
Originally posted by svet-am
I can speak from experience in what I said here. I am currently in the process of suing one of my deadbeat clients for non-payment.

The clerk that filed my paperwork was very impressed by the detail of my logs that I kept. From the timelog for phone calls, email transcripts with my client, the work timelog, the signed quotes, etc.

The bottom line is to just be careful and methodical and CYA. ;)
Click to expand...

I applaud you for detailed records I made the mistake once of not getting a signature for a 3rd part of a job I once did and sure enough the guy didnt pay for that 3rd part and when I sued it was like how come you have signatures for the first 2 but not the third. I figured I could trust them because it was work in a baptist church, and this guy was a deacon or whatever they are called. Goes to show you, you cant trust ANYONE.
 
Originally posted by RavinDJ
Also... what about monthly costs to the client? If I were to give them an hour per week of support, changes, additions, etc.?
Click to expand...



After you complete the site what I usually do is charge per hour for any changes and/or additions to the site. It's the easiest and best way to do it. I would give them a pretty close estimate beforehand about how many hours it is going to take you though.

If it's going to be a major task then treat it like a whole new job and work up an estimate.



A good gage for how much to charge for a job is look at the workload you have to do and how much time it will take you. If you can guesstimate the number of hours you expect to spend on it and can think of what $$$ you'd need an hour to make this worth your time and multiply by the hours. Also, when you initiallly talk to the person make sure you get all the info you are going to need:

How many pages will the site consist of
What is the timeframe for some rough designs, finished product
Will they supply images for the site or do you have to take pics
Do they have a logo and/or other adverts you can look at to model the site after
And a bunch more....

You need all that info to accurately estimate your time on the job.

Also, it's a good idea to get some commitments from your client on when they'll supply all the "info" for the site. You'd be surprised at how often you bust your @ss to get a site done for a client who wants it right away and then they jerk you around for a month before they finally get you all the copy for the pages so it can go live.

The more sites you design the better you'll be at estimating and learning how to deal with clients. Good communication skills are key. It's not always possible but a face to face meeting is always a plus.
 
Thank you chevy, another good amount of advice.

Especially the update stuff. I was thinking a flat rate for an
update, but sometimes that could end up major.

I think I'll go hourly when they ask. $XX/hour, minimum of 1 hour.
 
if it requires you travel time or something like that you should charge a minimum of 3 or 4 hours just to make it worth your time to drive out there.

But, a minimum of an hour is a good start. You may want to make up some type of invoice that details what you did and time spent on the project. It's very professional and then if the client has any questions you can go over it with them.


Here's some usefull tips for people who do freelance work:

http://www.gmarketing.com/

sorry, had another link for you and I'm just drawing a blank, it had some great generic forms you could use like a time card to keep track of hours spent, sample estimating sheet, etc... I'll see if I can't find it again.
 
What are some of the better rated hosts out there?

I'm looking for something basic... allows javascript, Frontpage
extensions, and they'll register and maintain your domain name
for you also.
 
I use liquidweb.com and never had any problems w/ them. I'm not sure how there prices compare but you get a whole slew of features and great support.
 
While I dont use them myself, my last client used iPowerweb.com.

Their staff was highly professional and provided very fast (same day) resolution for all of the technical issues I encountered.

They support PHP, FrontPage extensions, MySQL, various types of automation, cookie-cutter shopping carts, and they run on Linux, so I was able to use .htaccess and other shell tricks on the site I designed.

Don't know how much my client was paying for it, but it can't be much. He's the one that I'm having to sue to get paid ;-P
 
svet-am, that's one of the nice things about that sample contract
I linked to. The way it's laid out is you get 50% of the total
payment before any work starts and the other 50% 3 days
before the final project is delivered.

Not saying it's a perfect system, but if someone doesn't pay you
either don't start or they don't get the site.

Either way, you do no work or most of the work for 50% of the
pay... which sucks, but it's better than nothing and they don't get
a final product.
 
Originally posted by chevy4x4trucks
I use liquidweb.com and never had any problems w/ them. I'm not sure how there prices compare but you get a whole slew of features and great support.
Click to expand...

Liquidweb is the biggest ripoff BEWARE...

They have atleast 50 complaints with the BBB. for taking yearly renewels and canelling accounts. I started off with them and they always had something wrong with their servers. They even tried to rip me for a year payment saying I was spamming because they didnt secure their cpanel install of sendmail and people where accessing it to send files out.
 
Originally posted by pioneer77
svet-am, that's one of the nice things about that sample contract
I linked to. The way it's laid out is you get 50% of the total
payment before any work starts and the other 50% 3 days
before the final project is delivered.

Not saying it's a perfect system, but if someone doesn't pay you
either don't start or they don't get the site.

Either way, you do no work or most of the work for 50% of the
pay... which sucks, but it's better than nothing and they don't get
a final product.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see your point and the benefits of your method. Personally, I'd love to do it that way. But, my system needs to be taken in the context of my target demographic.

I'm dealing with mostly with really small businesses and/or non-profit organizations in NE Mississippi. Either the clients simply dont have that kind of money to lay out at the beginning of the project (most depend on government subsidy, which is distributed net/30), or they are so technologically deprived that they don't understand why these kinds of projects really ought to be paid for mostly up front.

If I stick to my guns and go with your method, I get no clients. If I use the method I currently have, I just have to deal with a few bad apples here and there. That's why I keep REALLY good and complete records so that in scenarios such as this, I have all the ammo I need for the courts to side with me.
 
Svet-am did you ever email me after we talked on the PM? I was working on what you asked for but I couldnt find an email
 
Originally posted by Ruckus
Liquidweb is the biggest ripoff BEWARE...

They have atleast 50 complaints with the BBB. for taking yearly renewels and canelling accounts. I started off with them and they always had something wrong with their servers. They even tried to rip me for a year payment saying I was spamming because they didnt secure their cpanel install of sendmail and people where accessing it to send files out.
Click to expand...


I've used them for about 2 and a half, almost 3 years without any problems at all. I can only recall one time the server was down and that was simply because they were moving servers and they notified me in advance about it. Also, I've found there customer support to be really good. So, no bad experiences yet.
 
well your one of the fortunate ones, when i contacted the Better Business Bureau about them the guy was like you know how many calls we get about them, but alot of people never follow through. Ohh well what ever, I guess if they didnt try to screw me I never would of looked into web hosting, I would of just housed my sites with them.
 
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