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Vsync?

D

dante2010

n00b
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
43
Do most of you play with Vsync off? Personally I can't stand the tearing that occurs when it's off, so I usually (unless it's multiplayer) turn it on.

It syncs to yer monitors refresh rate, right? So on my 2005FPW I'd never be able to get more then 60 fps with it on?

Was just wondering what the concensus was on it here.
 
It depends on the game. Most games I can deal with the tearing (I have a Hyundai L90D+). Some games I have to use it (such as Doom 3), but I use triple buffering with vsync so the frame rate won't go down to 30 at the drop of a hat.
 
I play with VSync on. Who needs 8000 FPS when 60 is fine. As long as it stays at 60, never goes higher or lower, the game is smooth as silk, all the time, every time.
 
on FPS and RTS i don't... action is too fast and too slow to have tearing bother me

everything else? v-sync with triple buffah
 
wahoyaho said:
does vsync with triple buffer slow down performance?
Click to expand...
Triple Buffer keeps the FPS higher when the card can't always keep the FPS at VSYNC. For instance without Triple Buffer the card may all of a sudden drop to 15 FPS for a few frames causing stuttering, while triple buffer it would drop to 45 FPS for a few seconds and catch back up.
 
Is there an easy way to see if triple buffering is on in a game? (If there isn't an option for it)
 
So lemme get this straight.. if I have Vsync off in a game and I experience tearing, that means I'm getting more FPS then my monitors refresh rate can handle? So in my case when it goes above 60 fps I will see the tearing?

And also.. as was already asked, how do you enable triple buffering if there is no option for it within a games menus?
 
dante2010 said:
So lemme get this straight.. if I have Vsync off in a game and I experience tearing, that means I'm getting more FPS then my monitors refresh rate can handle? So in my case when it goes above 60 fps I will see the tearing?

And also.. as was already asked, how do you enable triple buffering if there is no option for it within a games menus?
Click to expand...
If you have an Nvidia card, look under the advanced settings section of the application profiles settings.
 
dante2010 said:
So lemme get this straight.. if I have Vsync off in a game and I experience tearing, that means I'm getting more FPS then my monitors refresh rate can handle? So in my case when it goes above 60 fps I will see the tearing?
Click to expand...

You are correct.
 
Vsync is sweet.., the human eye can only recieve 10 true frames a second, but can notice fluctuations upto 30fps, so anything above 30fps appears completely smooth ti the human eye, therefore, why the hell would you not turn vsync on. I cant see how vsync would effect a fast action game, like wtf.

Anyway, you fps noobs can enjoy your choppy 100fps, while i enjoy my smooth cinemtic display...
 
OK.. so I have Vsync turned off in Quake 4. I do notice tearing so this means I must be getting above 60 fps in those instances.

How come when I do a "com_showfps 1" to show the fps on the screen, does it never go above 60. Like not even a 61 or 62. I've never seen it show anything above 60.
 
Vsynce is awesome especially when you can use refresh override to set it at 85Hz @ 16x12 instead of 60Hz which I hated . . .
 
dante2010 said:
OK.. so I have Vsync turned off in Quake 4. I do notice tearing so this means I must be getting above 60 fps in those instances.

How come when I do a "com_showfps 1" to show the fps on the screen, does it never go above 60. Like not even a 61 or 62. I've never seen it show anything above 60.
Click to expand...
Perhaps Quake 4 is like Doom 3 in that the FPS is capped at 60. Try turning Vsync and triple buffering both on and see if that helps.
 
That doesn't make sense tho. If it's capped at 60 and I have Vsync off, I should see no tearing as it would never go above the refresh rate of my monitor anways.
 
Yeh that is like me when i play i'm playing counter strike, if i play with vsync off and cap it at 60fps i would get more tearing than if i capped it at 100fps. Anyway even if u do set it to 100fps and your monitor can only handle 75 hertz or something its only gonna actually be displaying 75 hertz even if it says its 100fps or whatever.
 
dante2010 said:
That doesn't make sense tho. If it's capped at 60 and I have Vsync off, I should see no tearing as it would never go above the refresh rate of my monitor anways.
Click to expand...

I have no idea where the idea came from that you only get tearing if it's above your refresh rate. With my LCD and CRT I got tearing below the refresh rate, in the 40-50fps range last time I checked.
 
There is subtle nuance here regarding vsync. With vsync off you can get tearing at ANY framerate. First let's understand what vsync means. The term probably originates from CRT displays and carries over in some algorithmic form to the LCD stuff. A CRT display uses an electron beam to excite pixels on the screen. The bean starts in the upper left corner of the screen, painting each line from left to right, moves down a line, and repeats until it reaches the lower right corner. In between each line of pixels the beam must move back to the other side of the screen, this is hsync time and is usually very fast. When the beam reaches the lower right corner it must reset to the upper left corner. This is the vsync period. The electron beam is simply paintin the contents of the framebuffer as sent to it by the video card. If the application updates the framebuffer while the beam is painting down the screen, you'll get tearing (data shown from two different frames). Turning vsync on lets the application wait until the bean has reached the bottom of the screen THEN updates the framebuffer. This hopefully gurantees that framebuffer data hasn't changed will the beam was updating the screen.

Hope that makes sense and explains why you can still get tearing even with a fps rate less than the refresh if vsync is off.

side note: the doom3 engine uses an INTERNAL clock of 60hz to update all of the time-based objects. This solves problems in previous games where certain movements and "tricks" were only doable at certain framerates.
 
what about CSS? i hate the 130 frames to 40 frame drops what can i do?
 
ZeroX said:
There is subtle nuance here regarding vsync. With vsync off you can get tearing at ANY framerate. First let's understand what vsync means. The term probably originates from CRT displays and carries over in some algorithmic form to the LCD stuff. A CRT display uses an electron beam to excite pixels on the screen. The bean starts in the upper left corner of the screen, painting each line from left to right, moves down a line, and repeats until it reaches the lower right corner. In between each line of pixels the beam must move back to the other side of the screen, this is hsync time and is usually very fast. When the beam reaches the lower right corner it must reset to the upper left corner. This is the vsync period. The electron beam is simply paintin the contents of the framebuffer as sent to it by the video card. If the application updates the framebuffer while the beam is painting down the screen, you'll get tearing (data shown from two different frames). Turning vsync on lets the application wait until the bean has reached the bottom of the screen THEN updates the framebuffer. This hopefully gurantees that framebuffer data hasn't changed will the beam was updating the screen.

Hope that makes sense and explains why you can still get tearing even with a fps rate less than the refresh if vsync is off.

side note: the doom3 engine uses an INTERNAL clock of 60hz to update all of the time-based objects. This solves problems in previous games where certain movements and "tricks" were only doable at certain framerates.
Click to expand...

Or in idiotspeak - Vsync locks the output of your video card and the refresh rate of your screen together. Without it, you can have 60fps being output, and 60fps being displayed, but they aren't synchronised, so you get tearing when the screen smushes (technical term) frames together.

What triple buffering does is add a third "Back" buffer to the putting the picture on the screen process.
Normally there are only 2 buffers, one with a completed frame, and one with the frame being rendered, if you are Vsynced, and the frame rate drops below the refresh rate of the screen, the screen has to wait for the next full frame, so you get a stutter, sometimes a really bad one because of what's called the framerate multiplier effect (a foible of vsync where if your frame rate drops below the refresh rate it drops to a multiple, so if the refresh rate is 60 and the fps drops to 55, the shown fps will actually drop to 30fps, bad stutter). With triple buffering there is in effect a spare frame waiting, which gets spat out if the framerate drops, and kills the multiplier effect and the accompanying stutter.

Triple buffering has no effect on your GPU at all, it's totally a VRAM thing, and even then it's a very low impact/high benefit feature.
 
Sloth_Boy said:
Vsync is sweet.., the human eye can only recieve 10 true frames a second, but can notice fluctuations upto 30fps, so anything above 30fps appears completely smooth ti the human eye, therefore, why the hell would you not turn vsync on. I cant see how vsync would effect a fast action game, like wtf.

Anyway, you fps noobs can enjoy your choppy 100fps, while i enjoy my smooth cinemtic display...
Click to expand...

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
 
Sloth_Boy said:
Vsync is sweet.., the human eye can only recieve 10 true frames a second, but can notice fluctuations upto 30fps...
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

Unless you don't have the same eyes as we have :p
 
Bullshit on the human eyes only seeing 10. Its been known for a while that the 30 fps statement is untrue while many humans can tell at 45 fps. I know my eyes and since they are trained for it can notice higher frame rates.
 
Sloth_Boy said:
Vsync is sweet.., the human eye can only recieve 10 true frames a second, but can notice fluctuations upto 30fps, so anything above 30fps appears completely smooth ti the human eye, therefore, why the hell would you not turn vsync on. I cant see how vsync would effect a fast action game, like wtf.

Anyway, you fps noobs can enjoy your choppy 100fps, while i enjoy my smooth cinemtic display...
Click to expand...
Ugh!!! Where do you people keep coming up with this stuff?
 
i HATE tearing more than low FPS...

vsync always on once i get all teh kinks worked out...i usually leave it off for a while, because tearing = more AA available.
wink.gif
 
wahoyaho said:
enjoying and needing is different
Click to expand...

That was my point :)

I don't need an FX-57@3400 either nor do I need sli'ed 7800's but man is it fun...
 
Recently I was playing with the settings in the NV control panel with 81.85 to see if I could get rid of that danm 360 stuttering in BF2 (even with the agp aperature at 256MB).

To my amazement, after turning OFF vsync and enabling tripple buffering it made the game run very smooth. I currently have it on High Quality with everything on default or app controlled except for vsync off and tipple buffering on. In BF2 I have the res set to 1280x1024 @ 75Hz, all the settings high and fsaa at 4x. My average frames with the system in my sig is 40-50fps and never goes below 30fps and even goes up to 70fps. When I have vsync enabled it would stutter every 2 minutes and piss the hell out of me.

I'm interested if this solutions works for anyone else.
 
Cabezone said:
I have no idea where the idea came from that you only get tearing if it's above your refresh rate. With my LCD and CRT I got tearing below the refresh rate, in the 40-50fps range last time I checked.
Click to expand...

Well Megadeth_Guy01 above said I was correct in that assumption. So it's not true then?
 
alot of you think you only get tearing if you go above your monitors refresh rate, thats bullshit.

I'll explain...

Your monitors refresh rate is how often it resfreshes the screen, 1hz generally means 1 refresh, so 60hz = 60 refreshs. Now, your screen doesnt refresh instantly. It basically refreshes from top-to-bottom, like when you download a large jpeg image on the net.

When tearing happens, the monitor starts refrehing the screen when it recieves another frame to output, so say the monitor is half way own the screen with its refresh, for the second half of the screen, it starts displaying the second frame. Therefore, you get the top half as 1 frame, and the second half as another frame. At 60hz, this appears 1/60th of a second but ussually happens effects 30+ frames within that second.

With vsync on, the graphics card waits until the monitor finishing "drawing" the image onto the screen, then the graphics card sends it another frame to refresh up onto the screen.

You get "tearing" under 60fps (with vsync off), becuase the graphics card will still send the monitoer images before the monitor is fisnhed refreshing the previous frame..

Anyway, i hope you now all know how vsync works, so turn the bastard on ffs...
 
dopefishzzz said:
Bullshit.

Unless you don't have the same eyes as we have :p
Click to expand...


Known fact mate...

Yuo will notice drop in fps below 30fps, so 30fps and up appears completely natural to the human eye.
 
30fps in games doesn't look natural because of the lack of motion blur. Without it, you need a much higher frame rate than that to completely fool the human eye. 60fps is nowhere near. 100fps is getting there.

If you move your mouse pointer quickly around the screen, you don't see a blur like you would in real life, you just see multiple copies of the pointer. Therefore your eyes aren't being fooled into seeing continuous motion.

As explained in the link I posted, the frame rate you need to give the illusion of smooth natural movement is completely different to the number of discrete images the human eye could detect in 1 second.

If anyone has a good enough card to run the RTHDRIBL demo at >60fps with multisampling (motion blur), try it with and without. The difference is very apparent, even at high frame rates.
 
Sloth_Boy said:
alot of you think you only get tearing if you go above your monitors refresh rate, thats bullshit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you will always get some tearing with vsync off, but if the frame rate is constantly dipping below the monitor's refresh rate (which is pretty unavoidable in graphically intensive games like FEAR or BF2), I find a little bit of tearing is much less distracting than constantly jumping from one frame rate to another.

If only triple buffering was properly supported in all games on all cards, this wouldn't be a topic of such dispute.
 
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