Using old PC for HTPC

[G-Spot]

After finishing school and getting married and working full time, my PC has gotten old and eventhough I don't have as much time, I still like to be able to play a game the odd time. Thinking about building a desktop and using the old one for an HTPC to connect to a 54" plasma.

Right now have:
ASUS P5AD2-E Premium
Pentium 4 3.2 GHz
2 GB RAM

It has a Radeon X800 series videocard which seems to be relatively useless now. Was thinking about getting an ATI 5xxx series card to get an HDMI out. I think the rest of the PC would be capable of HD video, netflix or whatever, but just wanted to make sure.

Other alternative is to build a nice system to hook up to the plasma, but I don't think CIV5 would be easy to play on the couch and may have to worry about burn in from the interface.
What would be a good dual purpose system? I have not been keeping up with current CPUs or mobos at all.

 

[guachi]

I had to do a search on your motherboard but, despite being old, it is rather full featured.

I'm trying to come up with alternatives and all I get is a) buy an ATI 5xxx like you suggest, or replace the entire system. What else could you upgrade on it? You could probably pick up a 5570 or 5670 for $70-85 and call it a day. Maybe even go lower and get a 5450 or 5550 for $50-$65.

 

[Zachstar]

I suggest this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877

However a Pentium 4 is WAY too hot at stock speed for any normal HTPC use. The good news is your mobo seems chock full of overclocking ability so you can use that to underclock.

You need to get it down to 2.0 and get voltage WAY down to have a hope in heck of that thing being acceptable in a living room setting. Flash 10.1 supports GPU offloading of video and works just fine on my parents Atom/Ion combo. So dont say you need the CPU.

Edit: Forgot to ask. What OS is it running? Windows XP is not a good OS anymore and programs like VLC and Media Player Classic Home Cinema cant hardware accelerate with it. If so you may have to go with XBMC (Used to be called Xbox media center) OS (Linux Based)

 

[Activate: AMD]

I suggest this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877

However a Pentium 4 is WAY too hot at stock speed for any normal HTPC use. The good news is your mobo seems chock full of overclocking ability so you can use that to underclock.

You need to get it down to 2.0 and get voltage WAY down to have a hope in heck of that thing being acceptable in a living room setting. Flash 10.1 supports GPU offloading of video and works just fine on my parents Atom/Ion combo. So dont say you need the CPU.

Thats not really a fair analysis. The p4 would be perfectly fine for living room use. As long as its got a decent heatsink on there with a big, slow fan, it'll dissipate heat perfectly fine. In fact, the TDP of a P4 at 3.2 is only 89W. Thats not too far off the mark for any modern processor. Granted, the performance per watt is way down, but its not like he'll be setting the curtains on fire like you seem to be implying.

5570 or 5670 is a good choice. That and Windows 7 will ensure that your CPU is never taxed decoding HD content

 

[InternationalHat]

Edit: Forgot to ask. What OS is it running? Windows XP is not a good OS anymore and programs like VLC and Media Player Classic Home Cinema cant hardware accelerate with it. If so you may have to go with XBMC (Used to be called Xbox media center) OS (Linux Based)

What?

Want to tell that to my HTPC running XP Pro SP3 which has 1-3% on both cores while the 3450 decodes HD content and has been doing so for like a year and a half?

Windows XP does DXVA just fine with MPC-HC.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

I suggest this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877

However a Pentium 4 is WAY too hot at stock speed for any normal HTPC use. The good news is your mobo seems chock full of overclocking ability so you can use that to underclock.

You need to get it down to 2.0 and get voltage WAY down to have a hope in heck of that thing being acceptable in a living room setting. Flash 10.1 supports GPU offloading of video and works just fine on my parents Atom/Ion combo. So dont say you need the CPU.

Edit: Forgot to ask. What OS is it running? Windows XP is not a good OS anymore and programs like VLC and Media Player Classic Home Cinema cant hardware accelerate with it. If so you may have to go with XBMC (Used to be called Xbox media center) OS (Linux Based)

I'm sorry, but I used an old AMD Athlon64 3000+ that had a 95w TDP in an HTPC for a year and a half before I switched to my current setup. I had an old thermalright heatsink on it with a 92mm fan. Silent as can be. The only noise I heard was hard drive seek noise, which led me to swap out the HDD before I worried how hot or loud the system was running. There are guys here running core i7's and top of the line video cards in there HTPC's, and you say a P4 putting out 90+ watts is too hot?

TBH, the only real problem the OP might run into with a P4 setup is lack of processing power for HD video and higher power consumption than what a modern system might provide with comparable processing power. The lack of HD processing power can be overcome though with a modern gpu and the appropriate software.

 

[valve1138]

Guys, Zachstar just has some sort of hardon with HTPC's having to use 10 watts or some such shit.

 

[Zachstar]

What?

Want to tell that to my HTPC running XP Pro SP3 which has 1-3% on both cores while the 3450 decodes HD content and has been doing so for like a year and a half?

Windows XP does DXVA just fine with MPC-HC.

DXVA does not work even with latest drivers on parents Ion PC. VLC was nogo either. XP really needs to hurry up and perish. Strangely enough Flash 10.1 functioned however.

How many Pentium 4s do you see with a big slow fan? Most use the whiny crappy Intel heatsinks of that era that are not good for HTPC use.

On top of that if the HTPC's GPU is doing the decoding even an Atom can handle the CPU side of things why not underclock. Is there a reason over 65W is acceptable.

It is getting absolutely silly what gets accepted as HTPCs these days. Quad core 125W Phenoms? Sure why not. 5850s? Never know when you will get a craving for Crysis in the living room.

If it requires a bunch of power to run and you can hear its fan from the couch that is not an HTPC its a whiny desktop that never got underclocked because of the perception one might need them hertz...

 

[Zachstar]

I'm sorry, but I used an old AMD Athlon64 3000+ that had a 95w TDP in an HTPC for a year and a half before I switched to my current setup. I had an old thermalright heatsink on it with a 92mm fan. Silent as can be. The only noise I heard was hard drive seek noise, which led me to swap out the HDD before I worried how hot or loud the system was running. There are guys here running core i7's and top of the line video cards in there HTPC's, and you say a P4 putting out 90+ watts is too hot?

TBH, the only real problem the OP might run into with a P4 setup is lack of processing power for HD video and higher power consumption than what a modern system might provide with comparable processing power. The lack of HD processing power can be overcome though with a modern gpu and the appropriate software.

Why did you go with a new setup if the 95W was "Silent as can be"? (My P4 was 103W BTW)

And sorry anyone claiming that an i7 system is an HTPC is just fibbing or trying to show an Epeen nobody in their right mind would pay what it takes for such a setup just to use it for HTPC work.

 

[InternationalHat]

DXVA does not work even with latest drivers on parents Ion PC. VLC was nogo either. XP really needs to hurry up and perish. Strangely enough Flash 10.1 functioned however

Oh, you're running an Ion. I'm not surprised then.



To the OP: DXVA does work in XP on both a 785g IGP (HD4200) and a 3450 add-on card. One machine uses what I believe are the MPC-HC codecs. The other uses FFDShow's DXVA stuff with the SAF pack for MediaPortal. You will probably be OK with a P4 and a decent add-on card.

The guy shouting about power is trying to justify something, his purchase of the ion or whatever. If you don't care about the power use, it doesn't really matter unless you want to get environmental about it. You've got PCI-E slots on that board so go for it I say, you can always reuse the card down the road.

 

[Activate: AMD]

DXVA does not work even with latest drivers on parents Ion PC. VLC was nogo either. XP really needs to hurry up and perish. Strangely enough Flash 10.1 functioned however.

How many Pentium 4s do you see with a big slow fan? Most use the whiny crappy Intel heatsinks of that era that are not good for HTPC use.

On top of that if the HTPC's GPU is doing the decoding even an Atom can handle the CPU side of things why not underclock. Is there a reason over 65W is acceptable.

It is getting absolutely silly what gets accepted as HTPCs these days. Quad core 125W Phenoms? Sure why not. 5850s? Never know when you will get a craving for Crysis in the living room.

If it requires a bunch of power to run and you can hear its fan from the couch that is not an HTPC its a whiny desktop that never got underclocked because of the perception one might need them hertz...

rofl, you crack me up dude. First off, you dont know what kind of fan hes using. Its not a stupid dell, he clearly built it himself if hes using an asus board, so it wouldn't be totally off base to assume hes got something with a decent fan on it. Yes, he COULD underclock and run the fan slower if the noise bothers him, but its not gonna set the couch on fire if he doesn't want to bother with the hassle or the loss of performance

second: you 're right that people shouldnt be putting quad phenoms or 5850's in HTPCs. but 89W (i looked up the model and that what intel says his TDP is) is NOT a HUGE jump from 65W. in no way is it enough to totally throw out the guy's system. sure, he could buy a brand new wolfdale, or i3 or AII X2 and get a lot more horesepower for less wattage, but even if he goes cheap its still gonna be at least $100. If he wants to use an old system as an htpc, i'm just saying that its possible to get a fully featured HTPC if all he does is add a 5xxx series radeon for $30-$50. An upgrade to win7 for 7MC would be a good idea too

Third: if you can't get DXVA on winXP you're doing it wrong. either ion drivers (likely) or setup.

 

[Zachstar]

If that mobo can be updated there is little reason why a wolfdale could not be added for well under 100 USD I would personally be surprised if that wasnt the case. Tho it is not needed if as you say DXVA works in XP still. Just a massive overclock.

Perhaps yall have never used a Pentium 4. Let me enlighten you from years of using mine. The slightest load causes the fan to spool up to counter the increased heat. This is not Athlons we are talking about. Pentium 4s go flat out on whatever you push to it. Almost no efficiency or power savings.

So it dosent matter if the GPU takes over and you use less than half of the CPU. The fan will spool up and it will heat up like there is no tomorrow.

So please stop with the libel and stop with the sillyness. That mobo has a wide away of overclocking so underclocking will be just as easy. Just underclock and get it done.

The OP needs not expect any CPU intensive programs to work anyway. If it is too much for an Atom it is too much for a Pentium 4. Otherwise don't claim its an HTPC. Just a desktop in the living room.

Do I have an issue with the Pentium 4? Yes.

Do I expect an HTPC to use 10 watts? Well considering even the Ion system uses 25-40W total that would be a no. (Just a note folks Libel is against forum rules) But I expect the definition of an HTPC to be maintained. Especially when options are there to atleast attempt to fit into the picture. If the OP had some crap OEM mobo I would say "Yuck but with the proper Pci-E it will work... sorta" Because there is no option.

But I will say it plainly. If you refuse to underclock when you have no need for the extra hertz and just think a minuture space heater is acceptable. Dont come around here calling it an HTPC. Because it isnt. As it is just a space heater desktop that plays movies.

 

[valve1138]

Get an aftermarket cooler.

And the definition of "HTPC" is debatable.

space heater? thanks for your opinion.

 

[Activate: AMD]

If that mobo can be updated there is little reason why a wolfdale could not be added for well under 100 USD I would personally be surprised if that wasnt the case. Tho it is not needed if as you say DXVA works in XP still. Just a massive overclock.

Perhaps yall have never used a Pentium 4. Let me enlighten you from years of using mine. The slightest load causes the fan to spool up to counter the increased heat. This is not Athlons we are talking about. Pentium 4s go flat out on whatever you push to it. Almost no efficiency or power savings.

So it dosent matter if the GPU takes over and you use less than half of the CPU. The fan will spool up and it will heat up like there is no tomorrow.

So please stop with the libel and stop with the sillyness. That mobo has a wide away of overclocking so underclocking will be just as easy. Just underclock and get it done.

The OP needs not expect any CPU intensive programs to work anyway. If it is too much for an Atom it is too much for a Pentium 4. Otherwise don't claim its an HTPC. Just a desktop in the living room.

Do I have an issue with the Pentium 4? Yes.

Do I expect an HTPC to use 10 watts? Well considering even the Ion system uses 25-40W total that would be a no. (Just a note folks Libel is against forum rules) But I expect the definition of an HTPC to be maintained. Especially when options are there to atleast attempt to fit into the picture. If the OP had some crap OEM mobo I would say "Yuck but with the proper Pci-E it will work... sorta" Because there is no option.

But I will say it plainly. If you refuse to underclock when you have no need for the extra hertz and just think a minuture space heater is acceptable. Dont come around here calling it an HTPC. Because it isnt. As it is just a space heater desktop that plays movies.

li·bel [lahy-buhl] noun, verb, -beled, -bel·ing or ( especially British ) -belled, -bel·ling..
1. Law:
a. defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
b. the act or crime of publishing it.
c. a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
2. anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.

Libel? really? All I said was that you're wrong about a lot of the stuff you're spouting off as "fact" I never "defamed" or maliciously misrepresented you.

So now to look at your points instead of your word choice

1: the cheapest wolfdale setup with 2gb of ram on Newegg costs $130 shipped. And if you don't want the absolute cheapest crap they sell, its gonna cost a lot more than that. Seems a little steep when they had a 5450 for sale on Newegg's shell shocker deal for $25 doesn't it? Oh, thats right, the 130 doesn't include anything that'll do bitstreaming or even DXVA. So the total is $155 at least. Of course, if the board accepts a drop in replacement, the cheapest wolfdale (an E3100 celeron) is $50, so the cost of his upgrade is now $75. Still, 3x more than the GPU alone.

2: you (or I) don't know what kind of CPU cooler hes using so how do you know how much noise it makes? have you been to his house? have you listened in? have you somehow telepathically sensed it going into hairdryer mode? no, you havent.

3: If its too much for an atom its too much for a p4? pleease
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/92?vs=110 Sorry that the P4 included in that bench is a 3.6, but we all know about the P4's performance/clock, so its probably a good guideline. If you don't feel like clicking the link it shows the P4 obliterating the atom in almost all the benchmarks, though the atom comes close in a couple. It never wins

So how about you drop the semantic argument (HTPC vs ???) and just give the guy solid advice?

 

[Zachstar]

A pentium 4 at 3.6 whooping a 10 watt Atom? Say it aint so!

G-spot you've got people here calling i7s HTPCs. People claiming spending MORE for a good cooler will solve a CPU belching heat into a room. I think you know as well as I do that an underclock paired with a HD 5450 or HD 4350 or 4550 will give you good hardware acceleration on Flash, Mpeg 4 and H264 playback (And others like VC-1 and MPEG2) Not to mention Netflix.

If as they say DXVA works in XP you likely dont have media center anyway so you have ZERO need for the extra hertz or heat. Not to mention power bill.

 

[valve1138]

Why can't an i7 be an HTPC?

Any computer you hook up to your TV and watch content from is an "HTPC", plain and simple.

You keep spouting off your opinions and personal preference as fact.

 

[Activate: AMD]

A pentium 4 at 3.6 whooping a 10 watt Atom? Say it aint so!

G-spot you've got people here calling i7s HTPCs. People claiming spending MORE for a good cooler will solve a CPU belching heat into a room. I think you know as well as I do that an underclock paired with a HD 5450 or HD 4350 or 4550 will give you good hardware acceleration on Flash, Mpeg 4 and H264 playback (And others like VC-1 and MPEG2) Not to mention Netflix.

If as they say DXVA works in XP you likely dont have media center anyway so you have ZERO need for the extra hertz or heat. Not to mention power bill.

I dont even think you get it. Hes not building an HTPC from scratch. If a guy came in here saying he was gonna build an htpc with an i7 in it I'd call him crazy. G-spot isn't building a PC from scratch, he's trying to save money by using an old system. Unlike you, I try to give advice from within the context of the situation presented to me. In this particular scenario the obvious answer is that nothing needs to be changed but a different GPU.

I also never claimed that spending more money on a HSF will solve a heat problem, I claimed it solved a NOISE problem. How can a P4 heat up like theres "no tomorrow" when its TDP is 89W? Last I checked, the difference between a 65W wolfdale, and an 89W P4 was only 24 watts. Do you want him to switch all the lightbulbs in his house to lower wattage models? Everyone knows its not a "living room" unless all the lamps have light bulbs that are less than 60W, he should change them to 55W bulbs

 

[Zachstar]

I use CFLs I would not know.

I am done debating. G-Spot your mobo has PCI-E and good clocking abilities. I suggest you spend the time waiting for the card to arrive working on finding min voltage for say 2.0 maybe 2.2 GHz (Enough to handle the non video stuff on Hulu) Considering many cpus require a considerable voltage increase to push into the 3s and up you ought to be able to shave 25-30W off that thing easy. Especially if it is a HT model at 103. That ought to keep your fans low.

Speaking on fans you seen to mention multiple fans in a previous posting. With an underclock you ought to be able to have good flow with 1 to keep noise down.

 

[G-Spot]

Thanks for the input and entertaining discussion! I am planning to buy a new videocard when I figure out what to build for a new desktop. Time being at a premium right now. The current computer wss the first computer that I built for myself that was not overclocked. So it is running a stock cooler, upgrading it sounds like a reasonable solution, what is the best bang for the buck out there now?
I am also considering putting the computer in the basement under the livingroom. The basement is not finished fully anyway and running cables is easy, doing it for speakers anyway.
Underclocking just seems wrong!

 

[Zachstar]

Why is it wrong? What do you need the hertz for if you are not doing blu ray or gaming?

If you want to replace the core see if that mobo supports this with a flashing.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116039

 

[valve1138]

Why underclock if you don't need too? Jeebus.

G-Spot, Check out the Zalmans. I used to use those, they are silent when you turn the fan down a bit. Reasonably priced too.

But, if the stock cooler isn't annoying to you, don't bother.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Wow..... Okay, well, since it supports DDR2 memory and it has a PCIe slot, which are both a decent baseline for old hardware, it should be fine despite the crappy (but usable) CPU. While not ideal the P4 will work as fine long as the OP doesn't stuff it into an HTPC case which are notorious for low airflow.

But yeah, OP, pick up a 5550 for HTPC work or higher for gaming (gaming wise I'd suggest a 5750 at the least, mine is actually pretty quiet).

As for the near retarded heat comments, I've had a Prescott P4 keep my living room relatively warm during the cold Colorado winter. My s939 Athlon X2 HTPC never did that nor does the three systems I currently have in there do that now (plus a receiver). So yeah, in my experience there's a world of difference between a 65 watt Wolfwood and an old Prescott P4. Not saying that's what the OP has but chances are it is.