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Transitioning Into Real Audio

R

RabidRodents

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
128
I'm looking to move away from my current silly set up, Logitech Z-5500's, into "real" speakers. Something 2.0ish. Any suggestions for under 500$ and how would I convert this into something I can plug into the back of my computer?

The below picture, taken form Raikiri in the post the setup thread, is what I'm trying to move towards..

288mj6g.jpg


Anyways, thanks for any input!
 
Maybe something like a pair of KRK Rokit 6 or 8 G2s? I think for the 6 they sell like $199 each most everywhere they are sold and the 8s go for like $250. I think with the 8s you wont even need a sub but it may take up a lot of room. Magnetik has some nice photos of the Gen1 8s in his workstation in the "Show you speaker..." sticky thread and Fox Au has a pair of Gen2 6s in the same thread. This may help give you a size of the speakers.

Many people speak very highly of the KRK line in a number of forums. Just a thought. :p
 
Other questions that won't hurt to go ahead and answer: do you intend to use (or currently have in your setup) a soundcard for your digital to analog converter? Could you run digital out and have an external DAC (or receiver, etc.) do the conversion? Do you plan to keep the Z-5500s to use for any surround sound you want or do you want something that you can later add the center and surrounds to?
 
Zenshi, thanks for your advice!

Other questions that won't hurt to go ahead and answer: do you intend to use (or currently have in your setup) a soundcard for your digital to analog converter? Could you run digital out and have an external DAC (or receiver, etc.) do the conversion? Do you plan to keep the Z-5500s to use for any surround sound you want or do you want something that you can later add the center and surrounds to?
Click to expand...
Do you have room for a power amp and/or stereo receiver?
Click to expand...

Are Recievers and such common place in these sort of setups? I'm used to plugging in the multicolored stereo minis and only seeing recievers in home theatre setups! :pI wont be keeping any Z-5500's components, but I do currently have a soundcard.

Thanks for all the input!
 
on my audio setup am using the krk rp6 g2 like zenshi mention it has plenty of connection on the back like rca, trs,xlr am running from the edirol ua25ex sound card which i have found it great since it also alows u to plug in a something with optical like a ps3 for sounds and also has optical out if u want to run it to a reciver
heres a link to the stuff am using
krk speakers

edirol soundcard

rca cable am using
 
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Fox_au,

Awesome setup (checked out the pictures on the sticky)

Could you give a quick run down of that that would be wired?

(2 Speakers) -> RCA -> Edirol -> Usb -> Computer?
 
yep ur spot on there i also have a ps3 running optical going straight into the optical in on the sound card for when am playing
 
I'm always advocating passive speakers, but if you prefer powered, by all means, do so. I just don't like powered speakers much since sticking a whole amplifier into a speaker just takes away from alot of it's value. It's like laptop vs desktop. Laptops have a real hard time beating desktops. It's not quite as bad in the speaker world, but the edge is usually given to passives.
 
RabidRodents said:
Are Recievers and such common place in these sort of setups? I'm used to plugging in the multicolored stereo minis and only seeing recievers in home theatre setups...I do currently have a soundcard.
Click to expand...

Alai said:
I'm always advocating passive speakers, but if you prefer powered, by all means, do so. I just don't like powered speakers much since sticking a whole amplifier into a speaker just takes away from alot of it's value. It's like laptop vs desktop. Laptops have a real hard time beating desktops. It's not quite as bad in the speaker world, but the edge is usually given to passives.
Click to expand...

This is what I was getting at with my questions. As Alai alludes to, you have three options for sound to leave your computer:

1. Analog out from your soundcard, which would likely (although not always) be hooked up directly to a self powered speaker system. This is how just about all (advertised as) computer speaker systems work, such as your current setup.

2. Run the "sound" out digitally, via optical/coaxial digital out or USB digital out to an external device that will then convert it to an analog signal and pass it on to (and usually power as well) passive speakers. This is what Fox_au's setup does.

3. Run analog sound out from your soundcard (which is acting as the DAC in this case) to an external device that just powers passive speakers. This device is an amplifier and could be an audio receiver as well.

Receivers are just the most common type of device used for external conversion and powering of passive speakers, which is why I mentioned them in my question.

The first decision you need to make is whether you want to upgrade your current active speaker system to a good 2.0/2.1 self-powered system or if you want to leap into passive speakers. Keep in mind that, depending on your future plans as to upgrades and expansions to the system, passive speakers do offer more options and variety--can you tell I'm a little biased towards them? ;)
 
I love these threads because you can learn so much from them. Yeah it seems there are a variety of ways to hook up a great 2.0. It seems even to a noob like me that passive, with other components (card to pre/pwr, receiver, dac to amp) give a whole load of choices: much more choices with speakers, receivers, amplifiers and their various combination.

On the other hand going with actives is much more simple, especially for a 2.0 (no worries of figuring out how to cable the power cable from R to L speakers in the rear surrounds). 2.1 I have been finding is a bit more tough if there is no line out in one of the speakers.

For speakers, I am not sure if actives are worse than passives. I think there are more choices for passives than actives and dollar-for-dollar, passives are less expensive due to the lower cost of not being amped internally. However, I think there are some very nice speakers in the active side as well such as Dynaudio, Genelec and Adams. Even in lower cost, is a $400 pair of RP6's better or worse than say a set of Axiom M22's, I would not know. And not having to shell out for an amp in the beginning isn't bad.

I think if you really want a simple setup with the minimum gear around and have overall general good sound, active speakers give a nice option. If you want the ability to setup you system in great detail and have the most forward capable system for future setup, passives with a receiver is better.

Then there is someone like me with POS PC speakers who dream of eventually having either option in the future. :p I guess I am interested in this thread just to see what option RabidRodents takes at the end. Looking forward to yet another post in the "show your speaker setup" thread. :D
 
I was leaning towards Fox_Au's setup because he seems to be really happy with it and linking me to all the product pages makes discretionary spending very easy..! The more research I do though, the more I seem to be leaning towards passives.

All these reviews of speakers claim them as akin to gold as well. Its hard to make informed choices when no one has bad things to say about any peice of hardware (from my research).

One thing that does confuse me is this: Most speakers I see have very high RMS wattage in the hundreds. On the contraty, most amps, even the ones for half a 'g, have very low wattage ratings in comparison. Am I just looking at it wrong? Is the Speaker RMS wattage not really the wattage you're supposed to power it at?

Above posters have been super helpful, thanks!
 
RabidRodents said:
Are Recievers and such common place in these sort of setups? I'm used to plugging in the multicolored stereo minis and only seeing recievers in home theatre setups! :pI wont be keeping any Z-5500's components, but I do currently have a soundcard.

Thanks for all the input!
Click to expand...

They are and they aren't, it's entirely up to ya... You can get a good set of powered active 2.0 monitors (which just have an amp inside one of the two speakers), or you can get two passive speakers and a separate receiver/amp. The latter is more flexible in terms of future upgrades (you can sell the parts separately, you can move the setup elsewhere and use it as the start of a surround set, etc.). An acrive monitors/speakers setup will take up less space obviously.
 
I believe wattage ratings for speakers have a range. You don't want to go under or over the given wattage range. Overall, I wouldn't worry about the wattage too much. It's really a matter of how loud you want to play your sound. If you want to blast your HT or music, get more watts. Otherwise, you will be happy with 50W-150W.
 
RabidRodents said:
I was leaning towards Fox_Au's setup because he seems to be really happy with it and linking me to all the product pages makes discretionary spending very easy..! The more research I do though, the more I seem to be leaning towards passives.

All these reviews of speakers claim them as akin to gold as well. Its hard to make informed choices when no one has bad things to say about any peice of hardware (from my research).

One thing that does confuse me is this: Most speakers I see have very high RMS wattage in the hundreds. On the contraty, most amps, even the ones for half a 'g, have very low wattage ratings in comparison. Am I just looking at it wrong? Is the Speaker RMS wattage not really the wattage you're supposed to power it at?

Above posters have been super helpful, thanks!
Click to expand...

Some brands don't lie or optimistically state their wattage. I like Denon/Marantz/Onkyo/Harmon Kardon/Yamaha/Pioneer consumer level receivers because they don't lie and the power is real. Also to note, Harmon Kardon rates very conservatively so don't be shocked by their numbers.

I have owned and setup others with many Marantz(Receivers, Amp, Cassette, DVD) and Pioneer Elite(Laserdisc, Receiver, amp) products and love both brands; I can also note that I have never had a unit have any issues or have any run remotely hot. I can't say that about Onkyo and H/K units; some runs of units can haves issues. Do not count their units out, just check and be sure the model you are looking at doesn't have known issues.

Personally, I'd go the receiver and passive speakers route because the expandability is better. Consider some speakers by Athena or Energy; many products by those brands are being phased out and great prices are to be had. I've been a big Energy fan since I was about 14-16(5-7 years ago) and plunked down some serious coin for some slightly used C-8s.

The currently being phased out C-Series offers good sound for a great price; C-300 floorstanders are $130/ea; C-100 bookshelves are $110/pr and a C-C100 Center is $130. For $500 SHIPPED, you've got a really solid 5.0 system, or just buy the C-100s and you've got $110 in your speakers. Get a receiver like the Denon 1609 or 1709 for under $200 shipped. 2.0 for about $300 or 5.0 for $700.
 
I would have to give a headshake at Yamaha. I have had some of their receiver be a bit overrated, imo. Either that or the speakers were underrated in power consumption, but I forget which speakers I had at the time.
 
Post 2 on this...

EDIT: Redundant Info as betweenthetines covered this.

On the Yamaha, I've tested a few of their units, and I have not experienced that overrating.
 
Well on the passive side, even with $500, I think you can get a pretty decent set of 2.0 though you may be a bit light on the bass (as many smaller speakers are). Reading other people's posts, I think the lowest 2.0 set that looked quite interesting to me was around $150. That would be a set of Energy C100s

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/542789938/energy-c100

And a 2nd Gen T amp

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...=1&&vReviewPage=2&vReviewRand=1204237#reviews

That still leaves $350 for a sub....hmmm this is quite intriguing. :rolleyes: Maybe I should save up for this myself.

Whoops, this isn't about me... :p .... anyway, from that starting point, you can start increasing the speaker price or the amp price until you hit the $500.00 limit.

Again, just a noob's thought after reading a bunch of posts here.

Edit: Oh and speaking of amps, an off topic question. The Dayton APA150 amp looks very nice.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-812
In fact, it looks suspiciously like the now discontinued Emotiva BPA-1 amp.
http://www.emotiva.com/bpa1.html
Even the specs are similar. Does anyone know if this was kind of passed off from Emotiva to Dayton? It seems to provide decent power at 4 Ohms and would look like it would be an ideal match to a pair of Polk LSi7's. Just wondering. TIA
 
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I don't know for sure, but I think you are correct in saying that these are similar if not the same amps. It's like how the Outlaw LFM-1EX is similar to the HSU VTF3 MK3. Dr. Hsu basically made the Outlaw subwoofer. Lol.

Hmmm... I dunno. Personally, I don't like to skimp on the amp so that I can have the flexibility of using the amp for other purposes. But that's just me. If this amp is REALLY going to just sit on or next to your desk all its life, then buy what you will. Otherwise, I recommend getting a full HT-qualified power amp.

Also, for subs, don't forget the Energy subwoofer that extends really deep: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=2ENS10.3

Amazing sub for the price, according to the specs. And I heard many bemoan the fact that it got discontinued.

If I had money, this would be mine, but I had to settle for a Mirage LF-150... which is still a good sub and a bargain for the price I got it at.
 
I should first ask OP what model sound card are you using currently? I just wanna found out something about it.

Also, heres a quick list of components i could think of right off the bat. (and was under $500).

1st) The Onkyo TX-SR505

Its an old-ish model from mid 2008, and it isnt the best model in the universe, but it should get the job done quite well for Stereo purpose. Of course if you dont have the desk space, then the amplifier someone else linked to is perfectly fine too. This is just in case you wanted to add more the 2 speakers.

2nd) The Infinity Primus P152 speakers.

More of a music listening speaker then a HT, but I have the tower model, the P362, and they perform very well for either task. But the only reason I would choose this over the Energy Speakers recently posted is because of the front breather port. If you are going to have the speakers about 3 or more inches away from the wall, then the Energy Speakers will also do a great job.

Thats about it off the top of my head. :)

PS. If you have the space to add a subwoofer, here is a cheap sub that might be pretty good. Ive never had or owned it, but ive seen the brand name Dayton before quite a few times, and many say their speakers/subwoofers are quite good for the money.

Good luck on you quest for your 1st "real" speakers! :cool:

EDIT:
Onkyo price ($139.99 + $20ish(S&H), for me at least)
Primus P152 (64.80 * 2 (pair) = 129.6)
Dayton Subwoofer ($131.00 + $10ish(S&H))

total = about $410.
 
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