Sound noob question

[farscapesg1]

So, now that I've replaced my old 47" TV with a 65" LED.. I'm thinking about trying to improve my sound in the living room. I'm currently running an Onkyo 5.1 AVX-290, but only in stereo mode due to the way the living room is layed out. There just isn't anywhere to mount the rear speakers with the floating wall between the living room and the kitchen, and no where to really put stands that wouldn't get knocked over constantly with small kids running around the house.

Anyways, Fry's has the Pioneer SP-FS52 floorstanding speakers on sale. The seem to be rated at 6 ohms and 130W, while the speakers that came with the receiver are 6 ohms and 100W. I'm wondering if replacing the tiny front speakers with these floorstanding ones would make huge difference in sounds. We are constantly having issues with sound effects and music overshadowing voices, and even when there isn't a lot of other noises, voices still seem like they are "mumbling" sometimes, requiring us to rewind/replay scenes several times to catch what they are saying....

 

[Azhar]

Have you thought about soundbars? Never used one myself but my boss has one in his Chicago condo for the same reason you described - the inability to surround his living room with speakers. his soundbar sounds pretty damn good too. His is a Bose, but I'd imagine there are cheaper ones that do just as good.

 

[farscapesg1]

I've thought about it, but unfortunately the new TV I bought doesn't have audio out. I knew that going in since I have a receiver already, but trying to find a 65" LED under $1K means you have to skimp on something right?

 

[dandragonrage]

Have you thought about soundbars? Never used one myself but my boss has one in his Chicago condo for the same reason you described - the inability to surround his living room with speakers. his soundbar sounds pretty damn good too. His is a Bose, but I'd imagine there are cheaper ones that do just as good.

Why are you suggesting this? He's not complaining about clutter. The only advantage a sound bar offers is that it's a relatively compact package. There is literally not even a single reason to recommend a sound bar in this thread. Even if you get a "surround sound" sound bar, that's just marketing BS - a good pair of stereo speakers placed well will always be better. (On another note, people with small speaker budgets should be going for a quality 2.0 or 2.1 setup and NOT a 5.1 setup - front speaker quality is BY FAR the most important aspect of the electrical components of your system). Also, bringing up Bose is not the way to get people to trust your advice on audio. No offense - we all started somewhere - and not to say the sound bar is not a good option for your boss. But it's not really a good suggestion here. Soundbars are especially bad choices in large, open rooms like OP's. There's a saying about car engines that applies to speakers (actually, it applies to speakers more-so than engines): There is no replacement for displacement. If you want more info, look up "Hoffman's Iron Law."

OP: It's tough to say if the speakers are the problem because different rooms and the layout of the audio and furniture in those rooms affect the sound greatly - just as much as the quality of the speakers themselves if not more.

Larger speakers are usually more efficient (louder sound per the same power level, or lower power draw for the same loudness) and generally have a higher maximum SPL, and can handle more bass. If your current speakers are unable to handle the room, then upgrading to larger speakers is a good idea, especially with an open floor plan (open floor plans are awful for audio).

If you feel they are capable of playing loudly enough but that they are just not well balanced, you may also find it of benefit to replace the receiver with one that has quality room correction software, namely Audyssey MultEQ XT or Trinnov. This means a Denon 17xx or 21xx+ for Audyssey or the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 for Trinnov.

Trinnov kicks the s*** out of Audyssey, but comparable Denons are otherwise better receivers than the R-972. I would probably go for the R-972, though, if I had a problematic open-floor-plan room.

Do not touch Onkyo (especially their lower-end stuff with Audyssey 2EQ which is junk, and MultEQ with no XT isn't that great either, especially for problem rooms), Yamaha (great receivers other than their YPAO room optimizer is crap - if you weren't in a problematic room, Yamaha would be one of my recommendations), Pioneer (again, MCACC is not good room correction) or anything else. Denon or S-N R-972 only. For a store I recommend Accessories4Less. I realize you have an Onkyo now - don't get another one. They run hot and are just not good compared to Denon. They have been far more problematic with HDMI inputs burning out over the years. Accessories4Less actually carries Onkyo, too. Just pretend that they didn't.

If you want to get speakers (whether or not you upgrade the receiver), it's subjective, but I generally don't recommend Pioneer. Wait for a Polk or Definitive Tech sale at Newegg/Fry's. Or go to a decent store and sample some Klipsch stuff, because that goes on sale on Newegg sometimes as well (of all speaker brands out there, Klipsch is one of the most polarizing brands - people tend to either love the sound, or they find it extremely bright and fatigueing, and I am in the latter category).


P.S. for rear speakers, get in-ceiling speakers. For inexpensive and pretty good, I recommend: http://www.htd.com/. Monoprice also has some, but I'd recommend HTD over Monoprice. Of course it really depends on how hard or not it would be for you to wire such speakers at this point. Could also use satellite speakers mounted to the ceiling, though the "wife approval factor" for such things tends to be low.

P.P.S. You can try looking around for shops with a good demo/return policy so you can bring equipment into your home, and return it if it doesn't solve your problem. Call around and ask some places about such policies if you're worried about spending money that might not help as much as you'd like. Of course, such convenience will be included in their prices. You may be able to return equipment and buy it elsewhere, but that would be somewhat dishonest to the local store. Use your best judgement.

 

[farscapesg1]

Thanks for that info! I think for now I'll just use what I have and start budgeting for an upgrade. The only reason I went with Onkyo last year was because I got a good price on the set, and it was still a significant step up from the old RCA setup that was starting to fail (LCD is so dim you can't read it from more than 3 feet away).

Yeah, the open-room design is great for keeping the family together when someone is cooking and others are hanging in the living room. Unfortunately, with a 2-story living room and a "hanging wall" between the living room and kitchen, and the only connecting wall being an outside wall with 3 bay windows....options suck. I've even looked at the "wireless rear speaker" setups, but there isn't even power that I could run to the rear speakers. The sofa sits just under the hanging wall, with a small path between it and the kitchen counter, so stands would constantly get bumped. Wires would have to be run up the two story wall behind the TV, through the attic, then back down the hanging wall.. and would still leave the speakers hanging off the wall about 4-5 feet above ear level of those sitting on the couch.

I really should have just gone with a better quality stereo setup. That's probably what I will save up for. I think that R-972 will be out of my price range. Considering I had to keep the TV budget under $1000... I doubt I'll ever pass more than $500 by the wife for a sound system Maybe a little more spread out over time, so a Denon 1713 could be doable....

 

[dandragonrage]

A 1713 is still an excellent option, and the room correction is almost always very good (the R-972's Trinnov I'd call "great").

I say it will almost always be very good because there are some rooms out there that don't work well with certain room correction algorithms, but MultEQ XT can almost always get the job done very well. There is a higher-end Audyssey still (XT32) but models with that are even pricier than the S-N R-972. (Another great room correction software neither of us can afford is Anthem's ARC, though I'd still rather have Trinnov - but I'd rather have an Anthem receiver/prepro with everything else considered - if I could afford one)

You may need to experiment with the placement and angle of your speakers as well. Heck, you could experiment with that before you buy anything else.