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Solar Breakthrough

as someone who has been working in a nuclear power plant in operations for 15 years and have been in the industry for 20, all i'm asking is for you to take the following as a learning experience. i can't force you to agree with anything here nor can i force you to broaden your research. if anything, take this as a bit of an eye opener into how complex a problem the power grid and supply really is. as an old professor i had many years ago always said, "the question is simple. the answer is infinitely complex".

No need to store it. Just generate all the power you can, send it to grid.
as nice as this would be, unfortunately the grid does not work like this. the grid works on supplying a changing demand and although you can generate more power than is required, this is not a good scenario. when this happens one grid controller will route it to another even if it means selling it at a loss. Changing generation to match demand is far more effective in every way - this is why we like to use natural gas turbines for peaking power. not much out there responds faster.

Interconnect the grid across networks, states, and countries, west to east and east to west. Permanent power. No storage solution needed for immediate use.
Again, would be nice but the grid simply does not work this way. you are not considering the power loss through transmission over longer distances. to reduce line losses, we use transformers to step up the voltage - this is why we have big towers, to keep the high voltage lines away from people. those transformers only handle so much current flow. if a grid were to be upgraded to handle this kind of back and fourth power flow, it would require major upgrades to both lines and transformers to handle the extra current flow. this is not a simple upgrade and would be obscenely expensive. this is why storage is being developed!

that being said yes the US would do well to better interconnect power grids. this is the downside of having a bunch of smaller private generators. other countries have much more interconnected grids and it often helps with stability.

Like it or not, wind and solar are at the mercy of the environment. there is no such thing as 'permanent power'. with high reliance on renewables, what happens when night comes and the wind stops blowing? grid collapse is what. another reason for storage. that whole cascading thing. we will come back to that.

Classic, polluting power should be shut down and solar panels installed as a matter of first priority for world wide benefits.

i'm actually not against this in theory, but the inherent instability in wind/solar must be dealt with. cost must be considered. like it or not, solar panels everywhere is not cheap. who pays that bill? if you want to examine a world recognized clean grid, look north to ontario. ontario doesn't use coal and hasn't for many years. natural gas is used but only for peaking power. base load is provided by a strong fleet of hydroelectric and nuclear reactors. wind and solar were tried...and bailed out. they got far too expensive and it wasn't enough to make enough of a difference. the unstable nature of it is problematic. not to say that wind and solar aren't used. don't believe me, see for yourself:

https://www.ieso.ca/power-data?type=supply

take a look through the data and note how incredibly unstable wind is despite having a good capacity. now compare to hydro and nuclear. solar is far less capacity available due to cost per MW at time of construction but it also suffers the same problem. Furthermore, solar panels are not always efficient depending on the time of year. they're heavily affected by temperature and tend to be most efficient in the spring time when it's not cold but not hot either - precisely the time that we don't need all that power.

As you do that, bring up small, strategically placed, Thorium power plants as backup power.
Thorium is not the savior that it is made out to be. I blame media for this, we never discuss the downsides. Thorium is not widely used not due to politics but due to technical issues that we still haven't figured out. sure it's a great nuclear fuel. cheap, abundant and puts out more energy. It still requires a neutron source so there would be waste from traditional uranium fuel but far less. the spent fuel from thorium doesn't stay active for nearly so long and i do in fact believe that we will one day be using thorium in addition to uranium.

There is currently no good approved design that can use thorium effectively. yes the CANDU can technically burn thorium in a canflex bundle. doesn't make it ideal despite what everyone thinks. i'll come back to that as to why in a sec. the SMR/molten salt designs are interesting, but are not yet ready for construction. maybe close, we shall see. there's a huge technological hurdle here though - how do you maintain the equipment? in a molten salt design the fuel is dissolved in the liquid so there's no way to remove all the fuel from inside say a pump or a valve. work crew opens that up and is greeted with a rather dangerous radiation hazard.

that brings me to my next point. uranium 232. thorium itself is not a fissile fuel. instead, with a neutron source (such as U235) it will transmute into U233 and U232. great nuclear fuel, short lived, very energetic. U232 in particular throws out a stupid amount of gamma radiation! there's no plastic suit or otherwise to protect you from gamma, it goes through everything. lead blankets reduce it but do not stop it completely. it's enough of a hazard that the way we currently build nuclear is not ideal for this. it would be unsafe for the workers, especially when opening equipment for maintenance. this is also why the CANDU isn't ideal for thorium, the fueling equipment is designed for uranium. it's not as simple as add more shielding.

last point is you seem to want to use nuclear for backup power. this doesn't work, at least until we get fast fission figured out better. we run nuclear plants at full power all the time for good reason. reactor physics is the barrier due to production of xenon. iodine-131 is a normal byproduct and it readily decays into xenon. that xenon is a neutron absorber and must be taken into account or the reactor just shuts down. you can read all about that with the X-10 plutonium production reactor during the manhattan project. short explanation is extra power is required to overcome the xenon. since there's a lag, it has to reach equilibrium. when running up a reactor and putting the generator on the grid, there are planned holds for physics. they can't simply go to 100% or the reactor would shut down. same goes for reducing power output, you'd take away the needed neutron flux to overcome the backlog of xenon.

There is plenty of raw materials, including copper to build interconnected grids. It's not a new grid you build, but expand and refine the current one. The challenge is technical (and political), not raw material shortages. If every house and commercial building was required to install solar panels it would be a great start, inexpensive too.
you are correct with everything except the expense. the expense would be very large when you consider grid upgrades required. larger transmission lines, stepped up voltage, new towers and transformer to support. it's actually extremely expensive. going back up north to ontario again, one solution to rising demand was to import power from quebec. they have a lot of hydroelectric that could be tapped. there is some lines already there for that, easy right? no. the upgrades required for that amount of power over that long a distance was obscenely expensive. so much so that ontario has opted to build more nuclear.

cost of solar panels is another problem. according to google, expect to pay $12,000 to $17,500 per home. who's paying that? maybe government grants could sweeten the pot, etc. but then who maintains it? still a consideration when cost of living is a concern.
We obviously have the technical capabilities to adapt and refine the grid to solar. Right now the grid is squarely refined to massive, centrally placed, inefficient, not to mention, polluting plants. It's also weak and prone to cascade failures if only a small percentage of generating plants go down. Texas has proved that a few times already.
yes we can do it. energy density is also relatively low, but rooftop offsets this to a point. would love to know what the plan is when the sun goes down!

to say that the current grid is inefficient or failure prone is a yes and no. since the great blackout of 2002, there have been a lot of changes to prevent that from happening again. citing texas as an example isn't really accurate either since texas has their own isolated grid for the most part. look at the continent as a whole. as far as being 'weak and failure prone' the same argument can be made for solar with no storage for backup. raw MW output isn't really enough because you're only considering residential. it's great to power a home (at least when the sun is shining), not a factory. the load demands are much higher and different too. residential tends to have resistive demands while many factories are capacitive. reactive power is also a concern there, not something solar is good at.

Fluctuation in use we know down to the minute mostly, doesn't matter if it is solar, coal, nuclear or farts that generate the electricity. The use is the same.
Frequency change (and voltage changes)? You mean the normal, everyday slight deviation that is already solved? Happens no matter the source of the power.
this is dead wrong. the source absolutely does matter for grid stability. we can't make the sun shine nor can we make the wind blow. we can, however, fire up a gas turbine in no time. we can reroute power. that's great you can track the demand but it doesn't mean jack shit if you have nothing to supply it with. the result is the 2002 blackout.

constant generators such as hydroelectric, coal, natural gas and nuclear in particular are incredibly stable with a constant 60 Hz output (depending on where you live in the world, frequency can vary). they are constant suppliers with constant load and voltage capabilities. wind and solar cannot claim this in any way - and that's why we need storage. think of it as a large capacitor.

Spain is one country, not very interconnected to a bigger grid.
not true. spain is quite connected to other countries in europe such as france.
here's what really happened, and no it wasn't due to wind and solar:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-21/what-caused-spain-blackout/105228732
but it does paint an interesting picture. this was a human problem where the plants ignored requests from grid control for whatever reason. keep in mind that wind and solar don't listen to grid control ever...again, need for storage.

The key is east-west (and thus west-east) interconnectivity. Follow the sun. And of course solar is not the only source of generated electricity. Thorium reactors make up for the shortfall in strategic places. And other renewables are also useful, like wind or geothermal where it makes sense. In fact, offshore windpower itself probably can supply the current electricity needs for the entire planet, several times over.

as discussed, that interconnectivity is great but comes with a high price tag. the infrastructure that is currently in place is not capable of handling the kind of load you're suggesting. this doesn't make it a bad idea, it has been done elsewhere in the world! now it becomes a political issue. correct that solar cannot be the only source, there's good reason for a diverse supply. cost and effectiveness must be evaluated carefully and a country must make their own decisions based on what their economy can tolerate.

another thing i'd like you to consider is waste from solar. those panels wear out and cannot simply be repaired. do you have any idea how highly polluting manufacturing of those panels is? its awful, the chemical waste is insane. the panels themselves are hazardous waste too, very nasty stuff inside them if they are broken open which is pretty well a guarantee at some point. maybe we can recycle them far more effectively one day, that is not today.

thorium reactors like what you're thinking do not exist at this time. it is being worked on, that much is true. i believe we will get there one day.

wind and geothermal where it makes sense i can completely agree with. problem with geothermal is we're not very good at drilling deep enough to build that in most places. very few locations is it feasible.

offshore wind is a nice idea, it has the same issues as land wind plus a few others. supply is more stable but not 100% by far. maintenance is an utter pig as is transmission. i too would like to get rid of polluting plants worldwide but at some point we have to consider the cost.
 
spain is quite connected to other countries in europe such as france.
here's what really happened, and no it wasn't due to wind and solar:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-21/what-caused-spain-blackout/105228732
but it does paint an interesting picture. this was a human problem where the plants ignored requests from grid control for whatever reason. keep in mind that wind and solar don't listen to grid control ever...again, need for storage.
This is interesting

The precise cause of the disruption is still not known, but Mr Gamez says it seems a big solar farm in the south of the country was taken offline around that time for reasons that may be as simple as low wholesale prices.

So excess solar led to drop in prices & some solar plant just decided to go offgrid as they didn't want to supply at such a low price ??
 
So excess solar led to drop in prices & some solar plant just decided to go offgrid as they didn't want to supply at such a low price ??
I mean this isnt simply a solar issue, conventional power plants shut down for maintenance some of which is legit but some is quite sketchy, ends up raising prices. Oil refineries always seem to do it too when gas prices are dropping. Hell Samsung said they were lowering memory production because the cost of things were dropping too much.
 
This is interesting

The precise cause of the disruption is still not known, but Mr Gamez says it seems a big solar farm in the south of the country was taken offline around that time for reasons that may be as simple as low wholesale prices.

So excess solar led to drop in prices & some solar plant just decided to go offgrid as they didn't want to supply at such a low price ??
it wouldn't surprise me. cost for renewables is actually a lot higher than most would think. it's more difficult to maintain a bunch of small generators than it is to maintain one huge one. solar may not have a generator, but its a similar concept in that someone hast to maintain all this stuff.

I have absolutely observed similar scenarios. nothing is immune to the greed factor!
 
as someone who has been working in a nuclear power plant in operations for 15 years and have been in the industry for 20, all i'm asking is for you to take the following as a learning experience. i can't force you to agree with anything here nor can i force you to broaden your research. if anything, take this as a bit of an eye opener into how complex a problem the power grid and supply really is. as an old professor i had many years ago always said, "the question is simple. the answer is infinitely complex".


as nice as this would be, unfortunately the grid does not work like this. the grid works on supplying a changing demand and although you can generate more power than is required, this is not a good scenario. when this happens one grid controller will route it to another even if it means selling it at a loss. Changing generation to match demand is far more effective in every way - this is why we like to use natural gas turbines for peaking power. not much out there responds faster.


Again, would be nice but the grid simply does not work this way. you are not considering the power loss through transmission over longer distances. to reduce line losses, we use transformers to step up the voltage - this is why we have big towers, to keep the high voltage lines away from people. those transformers only handle so much current flow. if a grid were to be upgraded to handle this kind of back and fourth power flow, it would require major upgrades to both lines and transformers to handle the extra current flow. this is not a simple upgrade and would be obscenely expensive. this is why storage is being developed!

that being said yes the US would do well to better interconnect power grids. this is the downside of having a bunch of smaller private generators. other countries have much more interconnected grids and it often helps with stability.

Like it or not, wind and solar are at the mercy of the environment. there is no such thing as 'permanent power'. with high reliance on renewables, what happens when night comes and the wind stops blowing? grid collapse is what. another reason for storage. that whole cascading thing. we will come back to that.



i'm actually not against this in theory, but the inherent instability in wind/solar must be dealt with. cost must be considered. like it or not, solar panels everywhere is not cheap. who pays that bill? if you want to examine a world recognized clean grid, look north to ontario. ontario doesn't use coal and hasn't for many years. natural gas is used but only for peaking power. base load is provided by a strong fleet of hydroelectric and nuclear reactors. wind and solar were tried...and bailed out. they got far too expensive and it wasn't enough to make enough of a difference. the unstable nature of it is problematic. not to say that wind and solar aren't used. don't believe me, see for yourself:

https://www.ieso.ca/power-data?type=supply

take a look through the data and note how incredibly unstable wind is despite having a good capacity. now compare to hydro and nuclear. solar is far less capacity available due to cost per MW at time of construction but it also suffers the same problem. Furthermore, solar panels are not always efficient depending on the time of year. they're heavily affected by temperature and tend to be most efficient in the spring time when it's not cold but not hot either - precisely the time that we don't need all that power.


Thorium is not the savior that it is made out to be. I blame media for this, we never discuss the downsides. Thorium is not widely used not due to politics but due to technical issues that we still haven't figured out. sure it's a great nuclear fuel. cheap, abundant and puts out more energy. It still requires a neutron source so there would be waste from traditional uranium fuel but far less. the spent fuel from thorium doesn't stay active for nearly so long and i do in fact believe that we will one day be using thorium in addition to uranium.

There is currently no good approved design that can use thorium effectively. yes the CANDU can technically burn thorium in a canflex bundle. doesn't make it ideal despite what everyone thinks. i'll come back to that as to why in a sec. the SMR/molten salt designs are interesting, but are not yet ready for construction. maybe close, we shall see. there's a huge technological hurdle here though - how do you maintain the equipment? in a molten salt design the fuel is dissolved in the liquid so there's no way to remove all the fuel from inside say a pump or a valve. work crew opens that up and is greeted with a rather dangerous radiation hazard.

that brings me to my next point. uranium 232. thorium itself is not a fissile fuel. instead, with a neutron source (such as U235) it will transmute into U233 and U232. great nuclear fuel, short lived, very energetic. U232 in particular throws out a stupid amount of gamma radiation! there's no plastic suit or otherwise to protect you from gamma, it goes through everything. lead blankets reduce it but do not stop it completely. it's enough of a hazard that the way we currently build nuclear is not ideal for this. it would be unsafe for the workers, especially when opening equipment for maintenance. this is also why the CANDU isn't ideal for thorium, the fueling equipment is designed for uranium. it's not as simple as add more shielding.

last point is you seem to want to use nuclear for backup power. this doesn't work, at least until we get fast fission figured out better. we run nuclear plants at full power all the time for good reason. reactor physics is the barrier due to production of xenon. iodine-131 is a normal byproduct and it readily decays into xenon. that xenon is a neutron absorber and must be taken into account or the reactor just shuts down. you can read all about that with the X-10 plutonium production reactor during the manhattan project. short explanation is extra power is required to overcome the xenon. since there's a lag, it has to reach equilibrium. when running up a reactor and putting the generator on the grid, there are planned holds for physics. they can't simply go to 100% or the reactor would shut down. same goes for reducing power output, you'd take away the needed neutron flux to overcome the backlog of xenon.


you are correct with everything except the expense. the expense would be very large when you consider grid upgrades required. larger transmission lines, stepped up voltage, new towers and transformer to support. it's actually extremely expensive. going back up north to ontario again, one solution to rising demand was to import power from quebec. they have a lot of hydroelectric that could be tapped. there is some lines already there for that, easy right? no. the upgrades required for that amount of power over that long a distance was obscenely expensive. so much so that ontario has opted to build more nuclear.

cost of solar panels is another problem. according to google, expect to pay $12,000 to $17,500 per home. who's paying that? maybe government grants could sweeten the pot, etc. but then who maintains it? still a consideration when cost of living is a concern.

yes we can do it. energy density is also relatively low, but rooftop offsets this to a point. would love to know what the plan is when the sun goes down!

to say that the current grid is inefficient or failure prone is a yes and no. since the great blackout of 2002, there have been a lot of changes to prevent that from happening again. citing texas as an example isn't really accurate either since texas has their own isolated grid for the most part. look at the continent as a whole. as far as being 'weak and failure prone' the same argument can be made for solar with no storage for backup. raw MW output isn't really enough because you're only considering residential. it's great to power a home (at least when the sun is shining), not a factory. the load demands are much higher and different too. residential tends to have resistive demands while many factories are capacitive. reactive power is also a concern there, not something solar is good at.


this is dead wrong. the source absolutely does matter for grid stability. we can't make the sun shine nor can we make the wind blow. we can, however, fire up a gas turbine in no time. we can reroute power. that's great you can track the demand but it doesn't mean jack shit if you have nothing to supply it with. the result is the 2002 blackout.

constant generators such as hydroelectric, coal, natural gas and nuclear in particular are incredibly stable with a constant 60 Hz output (depending on where you live in the world, frequency can vary). they are constant suppliers with constant load and voltage capabilities. wind and solar cannot claim this in any way - and that's why we need storage. think of it as a large capacitor.


not true. spain is quite connected to other countries in europe such as france.
here's what really happened, and no it wasn't due to wind and solar:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-21/what-caused-spain-blackout/105228732
but it does paint an interesting picture. this was a human problem where the plants ignored requests from grid control for whatever reason. keep in mind that wind and solar don't listen to grid control ever...again, need for storage.



as discussed, that interconnectivity is great but comes with a high price tag. the infrastructure that is currently in place is not capable of handling the kind of load you're suggesting. this doesn't make it a bad idea, it has been done elsewhere in the world! now it becomes a political issue. correct that solar cannot be the only source, there's good reason for a diverse supply. cost and effectiveness must be evaluated carefully and a country must make their own decisions based on what their economy can tolerate.

another thing i'd like you to consider is waste from solar. those panels wear out and cannot simply be repaired. do you have any idea how highly polluting manufacturing of those panels is? its awful, the chemical waste is insane. the panels themselves are hazardous waste too, very nasty stuff inside them if they are broken open which is pretty well a guarantee at some point. maybe we can recycle them far more effectively one day, that is not today.

thorium reactors like what you're thinking do not exist at this time. it is being worked on, that much is true. i believe we will get there one day.

wind and geothermal where it makes sense i can completely agree with. problem with geothermal is we're not very good at drilling deep enough to build that in most places. very few locations is it feasible.

offshore wind is a nice idea, it has the same issues as land wind plus a few others. supply is more stable but not 100% by far. maintenance is an utter pig as is transmission. i too would like to get rid of polluting plants worldwide but at some point we have to consider the cost.

I did the math a few years ago and it was something like 800 hoover dams of power output if you wanted to use water for energy storage with current usages.

To do that with batteries is insane to me, given their short lifespans among other things.

Maybe solid state batteries can make a lot of things more viable…

The sodium based SMRs are interesting since they can store energy in molten salt tanks to help with the grid variability.
 
1115118_1000033290.jpg
John Bonham died from a lack of oxygen, not an over abundance. So don’t understand the reference here
 
I did the math a few years ago and it was something like 800 hoover dams of power output if you wanted to use water for energy storage with current usages.

To do that with batteries is insane to me, given their short lifespans among other things.

Maybe solid state batteries can make a lot of things more viable…

The sodium based SMRs are interesting since they can store energy in molten salt tanks to help with the grid variability.
Rather than solid state batteries, I believe flow batteries are a better solution. Output can be scaled independently of capacity, lowering costs. Increasing storage capacity is as simple as building more/larger tanks without any need to touch the output side. Flow batteries generally cannot burn by design, making them a lot safer. They're less efficient than other battery types but have similar/better efficiency than pumped storage. Depending on the flow battery type, degredation is almost nonexistent and uses far less rare earth metals.

Heat batteries are best utilized where district heating is present, storing excess power during hot months for heating in the winter. Otherwise, there is a huge efficiency loss when converting electricity to heat and then back into electricity, one that I doubt is overcome with mini-splits versus just using it for straight heating.
 
I did the math a few years ago and it was something like 800 hoover dams of power output if you wanted to use water for energy storage with current usages.

To do that with batteries is insane to me, given their short lifespans among other things.

Maybe solid state batteries can make a lot of things more viable…

The sodium based SMRs are interesting since they can store energy in molten salt tanks to help with the grid variability.
This is very much what I was getting to, thanks :) very little concept for the size of the numbers.
 
as someone who has been working in a nuclear power plant in operations for 15 years and have been in the industry for 20, all i'm asking is for you to take the following as a learning experience. i can't force you to agree with anything here nor can i force you to broaden your research. if anything, take this as a bit of an eye opener into how complex a problem the power grid and supply really is. as an old professor i had many years ago always said, "the question is simple. the answer is infinitely complex".


as nice as this would be, unfortunately the grid does not work like this. the grid works on supplying a changing demand and although you can generate more power than is required, this is not a good scenario. when this happens one grid controller will route it to another even if it means selling it at a loss. Changing generation to match demand is far more effective in every way - this is why we like to use natural gas turbines for peaking power. not much out there responds faster.


Again, would be nice but the grid simply does not work this way. you are not considering the power loss through transmission over longer distances. to reduce line losses, we use transformers to step up the voltage - this is why we have big towers, to keep the high voltage lines away from people. those transformers only handle so much current flow. if a grid were to be upgraded to handle this kind of back and fourth power flow, it would require major upgrades to both lines and transformers to handle the extra current flow. this is not a simple upgrade and would be obscenely expensive. this is why storage is being developed!

that being said yes the US would do well to better interconnect power grids. this is the downside of having a bunch of smaller private generators. other countries have much more interconnected grids and it often helps with stability.

Like it or not, wind and solar are at the mercy of the environment. there is no such thing as 'permanent power'. with high reliance on renewables, what happens when night comes and the wind stops blowing? grid collapse is what. another reason for storage. that whole cascading thing. we will come back to that.



i'm actually not against this in theory, but the inherent instability in wind/solar must be dealt with. cost must be considered. like it or not, solar panels everywhere is not cheap. who pays that bill? if you want to examine a world recognized clean grid, look north to ontario. ontario doesn't use coal and hasn't for many years. natural gas is used but only for peaking power. base load is provided by a strong fleet of hydroelectric and nuclear reactors. wind and solar were tried...and bailed out. they got far too expensive and it wasn't enough to make enough of a difference. the unstable nature of it is problematic. not to say that wind and solar aren't used. don't believe me, see for yourself:

https://www.ieso.ca/power-data?type=supply

take a look through the data and note how incredibly unstable wind is despite having a good capacity. now compare to hydro and nuclear. solar is far less capacity available due to cost per MW at time of construction but it also suffers the same problem. Furthermore, solar panels are not always efficient depending on the time of year. they're heavily affected by temperature and tend to be most efficient in the spring time when it's not cold but not hot either - precisely the time that we don't need all that power.


Thorium is not the savior that it is made out to be. I blame media for this, we never discuss the downsides. Thorium is not widely used not due to politics but due to technical issues that we still haven't figured out. sure it's a great nuclear fuel. cheap, abundant and puts out more energy. It still requires a neutron source so there would be waste from traditional uranium fuel but far less. the spent fuel from thorium doesn't stay active for nearly so long and i do in fact believe that we will one day be using thorium in addition to uranium.

There is currently no good approved design that can use thorium effectively. yes the CANDU can technically burn thorium in a canflex bundle. doesn't make it ideal despite what everyone thinks. i'll come back to that as to why in a sec. the SMR/molten salt designs are interesting, but are not yet ready for construction. maybe close, we shall see. there's a huge technological hurdle here though - how do you maintain the equipment? in a molten salt design the fuel is dissolved in the liquid so there's no way to remove all the fuel from inside say a pump or a valve. work crew opens that up and is greeted with a rather dangerous radiation hazard.

that brings me to my next point. uranium 232. thorium itself is not a fissile fuel. instead, with a neutron source (such as U235) it will transmute into U233 and U232. great nuclear fuel, short lived, very energetic. U232 in particular throws out a stupid amount of gamma radiation! there's no plastic suit or otherwise to protect you from gamma, it goes through everything. lead blankets reduce it but do not stop it completely. it's enough of a hazard that the way we currently build nuclear is not ideal for this. it would be unsafe for the workers, especially when opening equipment for maintenance. this is also why the CANDU isn't ideal for thorium, the fueling equipment is designed for uranium. it's not as simple as add more shielding.

last point is you seem to want to use nuclear for backup power. this doesn't work, at least until we get fast fission figured out better. we run nuclear plants at full power all the time for good reason. reactor physics is the barrier due to production of xenon. iodine-131 is a normal byproduct and it readily decays into xenon. that xenon is a neutron absorber and must be taken into account or the reactor just shuts down. you can read all about that with the X-10 plutonium production reactor during the manhattan project. short explanation is extra power is required to overcome the xenon. since there's a lag, it has to reach equilibrium. when running up a reactor and putting the generator on the grid, there are planned holds for physics. they can't simply go to 100% or the reactor would shut down. same goes for reducing power output, you'd take away the needed neutron flux to overcome the backlog of xenon.


you are correct with everything except the expense. the expense would be very large when you consider grid upgrades required. larger transmission lines, stepped up voltage, new towers and transformer to support. it's actually extremely expensive. going back up north to ontario again, one solution to rising demand was to import power from quebec. they have a lot of hydroelectric that could be tapped. there is some lines already there for that, easy right? no. the upgrades required for that amount of power over that long a distance was obscenely expensive. so much so that ontario has opted to build more nuclear.

cost of solar panels is another problem. according to google, expect to pay $12,000 to $17,500 per home. who's paying that? maybe government grants could sweeten the pot, etc. but then who maintains it? still a consideration when cost of living is a concern.

yes we can do it. energy density is also relatively low, but rooftop offsets this to a point. would love to know what the plan is when the sun goes down!

to say that the current grid is inefficient or failure prone is a yes and no. since the great blackout of 2002, there have been a lot of changes to prevent that from happening again. citing texas as an example isn't really accurate either since texas has their own isolated grid for the most part. look at the continent as a whole. as far as being 'weak and failure prone' the same argument can be made for solar with no storage for backup. raw MW output isn't really enough because you're only considering residential. it's great to power a home (at least when the sun is shining), not a factory. the load demands are much higher and different too. residential tends to have resistive demands while many factories are capacitive. reactive power is also a concern there, not something solar is good at.


this is dead wrong. the source absolutely does matter for grid stability. we can't make the sun shine nor can we make the wind blow. we can, however, fire up a gas turbine in no time. we can reroute power. that's great you can track the demand but it doesn't mean jack shit if you have nothing to supply it with. the result is the 2002 blackout.

constant generators such as hydroelectric, coal, natural gas and nuclear in particular are incredibly stable with a constant 60 Hz output (depending on where you live in the world, frequency can vary). they are constant suppliers with constant load and voltage capabilities. wind and solar cannot claim this in any way - and that's why we need storage. think of it as a large capacitor.


not true. spain is quite connected to other countries in europe such as france.
here's what really happened, and no it wasn't due to wind and solar:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-21/what-caused-spain-blackout/105228732
but it does paint an interesting picture. this was a human problem where the plants ignored requests from grid control for whatever reason. keep in mind that wind and solar don't listen to grid control ever...again, need for storage.



as discussed, that interconnectivity is great but comes with a high price tag. the infrastructure that is currently in place is not capable of handling the kind of load you're suggesting. this doesn't make it a bad idea, it has been done elsewhere in the world! now it becomes a political issue. correct that solar cannot be the only source, there's good reason for a diverse supply. cost and effectiveness must be evaluated carefully and a country must make their own decisions based on what their economy can tolerate.

another thing i'd like you to consider is waste from solar. those panels wear out and cannot simply be repaired. do you have any idea how highly polluting manufacturing of those panels is? its awful, the chemical waste is insane. the panels themselves are hazardous waste too, very nasty stuff inside them if they are broken open which is pretty well a guarantee at some point. maybe we can recycle them far more effectively one day, that is not today.

thorium reactors like what you're thinking do not exist at this time. it is being worked on, that much is true. i believe we will get there one day.

wind and geothermal where it makes sense i can completely agree with. problem with geothermal is we're not very good at drilling deep enough to build that in most places. very few locations is it feasible.

offshore wind is a nice idea, it has the same issues as land wind plus a few others. supply is more stable but not 100% by far. maintenance is an utter pig as is transmission. i too would like to get rid of polluting plants worldwide but at some point we have to consider the cost.
Alright, lets go past my idealistic summary with real world examples!
But I want to address the "selling it at a loss" statement first. Yes, produce it at a immediate monetary negative income (recover later). Electricity should also be free for the most part for at least residential use up to a certain limit, say 1000kWh per month (adjusted naturally). You achieve this partway by mandating rooftop solar.
Cost is miniscule vs global environmental collapse. Get out of your profit, money, shareholder, value, etc mindset. There is none of that when the environment is done. Stop building bombs, and divert some of that ridiculously HUGE and wasteful military spending to making sure we have a livable planet in a hundred years.
Expense is nothing (specially compared to other wasteful spending). It's only difficult if you don't want to do it.

Overproduction? Power-to-heat (way better than batteries for heating, also used in Denmark successfully to counter the variability of wind). Or electrolysis (already used, Germany is a good example). Hell, even desalination plants can take that and turn seawater into good enough water for watering crops and looking at US water quality, good enough for home use. Or pumped hydro storage. Or automatic turn on of cheap/free charging of large fleets of electric vehicles. Or any number of other solutions. Last resort is to simply dump it, no harm, no foul. (Make back some of that "loss" from solar by having those as backup, or partner with)

Cost of solar panels are about 15 cents per watt in bulk. I'd say 1 standard American home needs about 8 kW so 20x 400 watt panels (34sqm or 366sq.ft). 1200 dollars in panels, plus inverters, cabling, mounting. So around US$ 7500-9500 plus very regulated labor cost (I prefer to build it myself, and just get someone certified come and stamp OK on it). Cost will of course plummet once we seriously go the solar route. I'd expect a halving in cost 5 years in. Add on top tax incentives and it'll be cooking fast with little expenses.

Thorium molten salt is already viable (TMSR-LF1). A 2 MW proof of concept plant is already in operation in China. With a 60MW thermal output (10 MW electrical) already being built at the same location as the first one. Scheduled to be finished in 4 years. Then they get bigger. 100MW in 2030, 400MW already designed.

It's time to look forward, not whiteknuckling outdated tech.
 
Alright, lets go past my idealistic summary with real world examples!
love to, i'm all up for some reality.

But I want to address the "selling it at a loss" statement first. Yes, produce it at a immediate monetary negative income (recover later). Electricity should also be free for the most part for at least residential use up to a certain limit, say 1000kWh per month (adjusted naturally). You achieve this partway by mandating rooftop solar.
Cost is miniscule vs global environmental collapse. Get out of your profit, money, shareholder, value, etc mindset.
why shouldn't cost be an issue? it costs to maintain an electrical grid, a power plant, and to fuel it. like it or not, the money to sustain these things must come from somewhere. there is no such thing as free energy, even with solar. someone must pay for installation and maintenance of solar, forget other sources.

keep in mind that i do not consider myself a capitalist. i am not an american. i am actually more of a socialist to some degree. i can simply acknowledge reality.

Cost is miniscule vs global environmental collapse.
yes, this statement i completely agree with. i simply disagree on how to handle it. we may not think of cost as an issue, but the rest of the world does. i don't have to like it, but i can see the reality,


Overproduction? Power-to-heat (way better than batteries for heating, also used in Denmark successfully to counter the variability of wind). Or electrolysis (already used, Germany is a good example). Hell, even desalination plants can take that and turn seawater into good enough water for watering crops and looking at US water quality, good enough for home use. Or pumped hydro storage. Or automatic turn on of cheap/free charging of large fleets of electric vehicles. Or any number of other solutions. Last resort is to simply dump it, no harm, no foul. (Make back some of that "loss" from solar by having those as backup, or partner with)
overproduction is a concern. this will increase grid voltage and potentially cause property damage. the ultimate end state of energy is heat. too much heat will damage equipment. generating companies don't want to sell electricity at a loss, they sell it at a loss because they must.


Cost of solar panels are about 15 cents per watt in bulk. I'd say 1 standard American home needs about 8 kW so 20x 400 watt panels (34sqm or 366sq.ft). 1200 dollars in panels, plus inverters, cabling, mounting. So around US$ 7500-9500 plus very regulated labor cost (I prefer to build it myself, and just get someone certified come and stamp OK on it). Cost will of course plummet once we seriously go the solar route. I'd expect a halving in cost 5 years in. Add on top tax incentives and it'll be cooking fast with little expenses.
you are considering the cost of the panels alone. not installation, not land required, not supplying industry, not maintaining, not cost of disposing of hazardous waste that solar panels are. like it or not we have to supply industry as well as residential.you also have not acknowledged the issue of what do we do when the sun goes down.

do keep in mind that i am actually in favour of rooftop solar. it doesn't take away from animal habitat, i can see the logic in it. i can also see past that in that it is not the be all and end all solution.

Thorium molten salt is already viable (TMSR-LF1). A 2 MW proof of concept plant is already in operation in China. With a 60MW thermal output (10 MW electrical) already being built at the same location as the first one. Scheduled to be finished in 4 years. Then they get bigger. 100MW in 2030, 400MW already designed.
so i looked up the TMSR-LF1. it's a 2 MW prototype. see for yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMSR-LF1

china is well known to exaggerate and brag. a prototype is a proof of concept, but does not address the issues i have brought up with regards to maintenance and worker safety. worker safety is another thing china doesn't care about. willing to bet that the yearly worker radiation dose limits in china are significantly higher than those for workers in north america!

being a prototype, the whole idea is to examine long term operation. meaning they haven't gotten it sorted out yet.
It's time to look forward, not whiteknuckling outdated tech.
i agree believe it or not. i'm all for more tech. i'm also for it making sense. what i'm getting out of this is you want tomorrow's tech today. i can appreciate that, but no level of investment will make that happen.
 
Here is an analogy I like to use for stuff like this:

............................

And that's how we should look at these stories. It is still news worthy, but it is in its absolute infancy. Anything that comes out of it likely won't be seen by users until a decade or more down the line, and when it finally hits the market (if they are able to make it work) it will feel more evolutionary than revolutionary.
Going down that path, long time ago i recall them testing wireless power, they did it between 2 islands I think in Hawaii, as a test to be able to beam down power from solar panels in space. Because they issues is the last 60km or something of our atmosphere is what causes so much loss of efficiency.

So the idea is have solar panels higher up in the atmosphere, and then beam down said power, but modulating it or something so, the obvious, you don't get fried if you fly through it...

Curious checking, maybe not related, but just in May 2025:
https://www.darpa.mil/news/2025/darpa-program-distance-record-power-beaming

2023:
https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/...onstrator-wirelessly-transmits-power-in-space
 
love to, i'm all up for some reality.


why shouldn't cost be an issue? it costs to maintain an electrical grid, a power plant, and to fuel it. like it or not, the money to sustain these things must come from somewhere. there is no such thing as free energy, even with solar. someone must pay for installation and maintenance of solar, forget other sources.

keep in mind that i do not consider myself a capitalist. i am not an american. i am actually more of a socialist to some degree. i can simply acknowledge reality.


yes, this statement i completely agree with. i simply disagree on how to handle it. we may not think of cost as an issue, but the rest of the world does. i don't have to like it, but i can see the reality,



overproduction is a concern. this will increase grid voltage and potentially cause property damage. the ultimate end state of energy is heat. too much heat will damage equipment. generating companies don't want to sell electricity at a loss, they sell it at a loss because they must.



you are considering the cost of the panels alone. not installation, not land required, not supplying industry, not maintaining, not cost of disposing of hazardous waste that solar panels are. like it or not we have to supply industry as well as residential.you also have not acknowledged the issue of what do we do when the sun goes down.

do keep in mind that i am actually in favour of rooftop solar. it doesn't take away from animal habitat, i can see the logic in it. i can also see past that in that it is not the be all and end all solution.


so i looked up the TMSR-LF1. it's a 2 MW prototype. see for yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMSR-LF1

china is well known to exaggerate and brag. a prototype is a proof of concept, but does not address the issues i have brought up with regards to maintenance and worker safety. worker safety is another thing china doesn't care about. willing to bet that the yearly worker radiation dose limits in china are significantly higher than those for workers in north america!

being a prototype, the whole idea is to examine long term operation. meaning they haven't gotten it sorted out yet.

i agree believe it or not. i'm all for more tech. i'm also for it making sense. what i'm getting out of this is you want tomorrow's tech today. i can appreciate that, but no level of investment will make that happen.
I don't want to break up the text into snippets.
I'll address it as a whole. Feel free to break it up if you reply.

Cost isn't an issue. Cost is negligible vs if we don't go that route. It's actually not complicated. It's only complicated if you don't want to do it.
If you calculate that overproduction becomes a concern, you build out the grid to handle it. Oh no, it's costly! No it isn't. Does it take money? Yes absolutely. But it's not costly, and it'll pay for itself many times over anyway. It also creates a whole bunch of stable, long term, well paying jobs!
If you chuck a bunch of solar panels on your roof, a decent inverter, and some scaffolding you already generate costless power. The point is to install more than your own estimated use and send the excess to grid. That's where you get free 1000kWh for residential use.
I gave you one example of cost for roofsolar. And I did add a variable for labor cost. You expand that to other areas. That's a different cost calculation and planning, but not expensive.
Summarizing, if the US installed roofsolar on roughly 60% of capable buildings it'll cover about 14-17% of daily electric need (depending on grid loss).
If a country like Thailand took solar seriously they'd cover their own electric needs several times over (but politics, and big oil is in the way).
If we go the full extreme and say we only use solar (with energy storage instead of interconnected grid), land use would still be less than 0.25% of US total land area. By comparison coal mining alone is 0.35%. Not to add on coal powerplants, nuclear, nuclear waste dumping sites etc. Land use will be about half with pure solar. Heck, use the old coal mines for solar installations and it's no difference in land use at all. No disruption to any animal habitat since coal already wrecked it.

When the sun goes down. It's in my previous post. Thorium reactors and also Power-to-heat (way better than batteries for heating, also used in Denmark successfully to counter the variability of wind). Or electrolysis (already used, Germany is a good example). Or pumped hydro storage. Or any number of other solutions.

If we don't want it today it will not happen tomorrow.
 
Cost is always and everywhere an issue.

You know how when a river gets top much water, there's a flood? Well, if you try to stick too much electricity in the power grid, you'll get fires. If you don't want that, you have to look into expanding all the high tension wires all over the country. Even just putting more wires on the existing towers is going to take a lot of time and be expensive, and if you have to build new towers, well, the first thing you'll have to do is spend years on environmental impact statements to appease the BANANAs who are going to have a for when you want to widen all those easements.
 
I don't want to break up the text into snippets.
I'll address it as a whole. Feel free to break it up if you reply.

Cost isn't an issue. Cost is negligible vs if we don't go that route. It's actually not complicated. It's only complicated if you don't want to do it.
If you calculate that overproduction becomes a concern, you build out the grid to handle it. Oh no, it's costly! No it isn't. Does it take money? Yes absolutely. But it's not costly, and it'll pay for itself many times over anyway. It also creates a whole bunch of stable, long term, well paying jobs!
If you chuck a bunch of solar panels on your roof, a decent inverter, and some scaffolding you already generate costless power. The point is to install more than your own estimated use and send the excess to grid. That's where you get free 1000kWh for residential use.
I gave you one example of cost for roofsolar. And I did add a variable for labor cost. You expand that to other areas. That's a different cost calculation and planning, but not expensive.
Summarizing, if the US installed roofsolar on roughly 60% of capable buildings it'll cover about 14-17% of daily electric need (depending on grid loss).
If a country like Thailand took solar seriously they'd cover their own electric needs several times over (but politics, and big oil is in the way).
If we go the full extreme and say we only use solar (with energy storage instead of interconnected grid), land use would still be less than 0.25% of US total land area. By comparison coal mining alone is 0.35%. Not to add on coal powerplants, nuclear, nuclear waste dumping sites etc. Land use will be about half with pure solar. Heck, use the old coal mines for solar installations and it's no difference in land use at all. No disruption to any animal habitat since coal already wrecked it.

When the sun goes down. It's in my previous post. Thorium reactors and also Power-to-heat (way better than batteries for heating, also used in Denmark successfully to counter the variability of wind). Or electrolysis (already used, Germany is a good example). Or pumped hydro storage. Or any number of other solutions.

If we don't want it today it will not happen tomorrow.
$18 billion for PGE to fireproof existing transmission infrastructure. Safe very high capacity transmission lines across the country will likely cost in the trillions. There is no way that is a trivial cost, that's just you being absolutely ignorant of reality.

Most people can't be bothered to care about consequences 10 years from now, let alone 100 years. Elected politicians can't afford to care about anything other than what gets them elected in the next election cycle. Authoritarian countries can do what they want.... as long as the subordinates holding power get the benefits they want, so unfortunately philosopher kings won't happen either. Trying to convince people "Don't worry, your grandchildren will see the benefits!" is a massive uphill battle, which is why it is better done with smaller step goals that provide near term benefits.

Funny how you keep promoting thorium despite multiple posts and evidence debunking your thorium claims. Get your head out of the sand. If you want to make viable change, you need to push things within the bounds of reality, not fanciful ideals.
 
you really should read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Cost isn't an issue. Cost is negligible vs if we don't go that route. It's actually not complicated. It's only complicated if you don't want to do it.
i get what you're saying in that climate change will cost us more. i am not arguing that point. here's the problem: get the masses to accept the price tag of what you would want to do.

second problem is you are still ignoring the technical issues with your solar everything idea. i have provided a ton and you have acknowledged none really. sun goes down across the entirety of north america at some point remember...production drops massively on cloudy days or even just days that are not the ideal temperature range.

If you calculate that overproduction becomes a concern, you build out the grid to handle it. Oh no, it's costly! No it isn't. Does it take money? Yes absolutely. But it's not costly, and it'll pay for itself many times over anyway. It also creates a whole bunch of stable, long term, well paying jobs!
as stated overproduction is much more than a mere money issue. but let's be honest, that's not happening with a grid that is almost entirely solar anyway.

If you chuck a bunch of solar panels on your roof, a decent inverter, and some scaffolding you already generate costless power. The point is to install more than your own estimated use and send the excess to grid. That's where you get free 1000kWh for residential use.
its not costless. someone has to pay for installation of the equipment and with that many some will fail, they would need to be replaced. again, you are only considering residential and not industrial. there seems to be quite the disconnect here on the magnitude of energy required overall.

I gave you one example of cost for roofsolar. And I did add a variable for labor cost. You expand that to other areas. That's a different cost calculation and planning, but not expensive.
yes it is relatively inexpensive, but does not include required (and very expensive) grid upgrades that would be required for your scheme...that doesn't supply constant load anyway. let's forget that for a minute though. would you force the homeowner to install these panels? might get away with it in building code for new build...maybe...but what about everyone else? its now an issue of politics. can be done, not always easily. subsidies only go so far. know how americans love their 'freedom' this could be an uphill battle.

When the sun goes down. It's in my previous post. Thorium reactors and also Power-to-heat (way better than batteries for heating, also used in Denmark successfully to counter the variability of wind). Or electrolysis (already used, Germany is a good example). Or pumped hydro storage. Or any number of other solutions.

we've already been over this. there is no thorium reactor that is ready for commercial production. there are still technical hurdles to be solved. i believe we one day will, it doesn't happen overnight no matter how badly you or i want it to. your 2MW example was thermal power. stick a generator on that and you'll only get about 1/3 of that energy in electricity give or take a couple %.

If we don't want it today it will not happen tomorrow.

wanting something is not enough. it's about as good as wishing something to be true. our tech does not go from a stone wheel to a spacecraft overnight simply because it is what we want. it happens in steps, or even leaps and bounds.

judging by the other comments i'm not the only one that sees the problems. learn from them. as soon as you can understand that you don't have everything right here (like any human being, not being insulting) you can begin to learn. it is a far more complex problem than you have appreciation for.

or just tell yourself that i have no idea what i'm talking about. not like i'm an industry expert or anything....oh wait...
 
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