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Revolution Controller!

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Companies obviously exist to make a profit, and I'm not arguing that Nintendo's decisions aren't primarily motivated by the requisite urge of any company to turn a profit for its shareholders; a company that doesn't want to turn a profit doesn't want to exist. What I AM arguing is that Nintendo (alone, apparently) seeks to generate profit as the result of innovation, as opposed to Sony and Microsoft, who seek to generate profit as the result of the tried-and-true. Nintendo tried the rumble pad, Sony and Microsoft decided gamers loved it, so they "innovated" the same thing. Nintendo tried the analog stick, and history repeated itself.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "video games as entertainment," instead of "video games as art." Sure, there are people who are entertained by the EA's latest marginally improved revision of Madden, but who the fuck cares? I liken the development of the video game industry to that of the film industry. Eventually - probably inevitably - most companies forego innovation for the sake of profit, and the remaining companies who make movies or videogames in the interest of advancing the genre are cornered into a market niche. Ultimately, this results in products such as, for instance, The Island...a movie which didn't have anything new to say about anything and would probably have succeeded tremendously had it not been for the fact that everybody was aware that Pearl Harbor sucked. I would rather have a video game industry that rewards programmers for games like Ico and reprimands them for games like Doom-Fucking-3...but the mainstream has already wrapped its hands around the industry, and now it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

Clearly, I'm not going to convince anybody of anything, especially the people who take one look at a controller and consider that enough to predict the failure of the console. These people should go ahead and just ignore me, because it will make things easier for all of us. Thanks.
 
^^^

You're right about a few of their innovations, but you seem to be neglecting a few very important "innovations" of theirs that went absolutely nowhere.

1. Power Glove

2. Virtual Boy

3. Connectivity

You also seem to be forgetting that none of their successful innovations were nearly as drastic as the one they're attempting to pass on to the industry now. Also; the rumble-pad and analog stick were introduced when Nintendo was still played a dominant role in the industry. They're not out in front anymore.
 
I think nintendo just got a little too wrapped up in selling their console to people who don't usually game. The remote controller just smacks of user-friendliness to me, and in a bad way.I mean every one can use a tv remote right so lets have them game with it. Someone said before there is a reason we use two hands to control gaming controllers, it lets you actually use your other fingers and not just your thumb.
 
Vriess said:
I think nintendo just got a little too wrapped up in selling their console to people who don't usually game. The remote controller just smacks of user-friendliness to me, and in a bad way.I mean every one can use a tv remote right so lets make them game with it. Someone said before there is a reason we use two hands to control gaming controllers, it lets you actually use your other fingers and not just your thumb.
Click to expand...

There are buttons on the underside of the remote portion, and the extension analog stick has buttons on the front and underside as well.
 
inotocracy said:
There are buttons on the underside of the remote portion, and the extension analog stick has buttons on the front and underside as well.
Click to expand...

yeah but youre still not using any of the fingers on your right hand for buttons. Its a step backwards for alot of games.
 
It does look wierd, but then again there are a hell of a lot of things that they can do different because it is so different. What will be the difference between the other consoles and the ones that came before them? Better graphics/sound/processing power. I would say that this is the first big change in years. Nothing has changed in gaming for a while. I read posts all the time where people say that games are getting easier and just have better graphics stuffed in them, or they're boring or that they're sick of sequel after sequel and clones. I think it would be cool to play an fps on my big hdtv and be able to actually aim with that thing and have it respond to my movements. As long as the pr is good and there is enough interest by consumers and the industry this should work. I hope it works, I haven't really played a console in a while.
 
DarkSeraphim said:
Also; the rumble-pad and analog stick were introduced when Nintendo was still played a dominant role in the industry.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I am a Nintendo fan boy, but if you think for one minute that the N64 was ever in a dominant role in the industry...

you're smoking crack! :rolleyes:

Their licensing scheme for the N64 was so exhorbitant that they scared off Square and Capcom, two companies who became big because of their games on Nintendo systems. Think M$ Office licensing but for consoles.

They got greedy! :mad:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly I can't wait for the PC adapter for this thing. I've bought an adapter for every Nintendo controller since N64 and soundly kicked a$$ in Battlefield with both the N64 and GC controllers. Helicopters rule!!
 
DarkSeraphim said:
^^^

You're right about a few of their innovations, but you seem to be neglecting a few very important "innovations" of theirs that went absolutely nowhere.

1. Power Glove

2. Virtual Boy

3. Connectivity

You also seem to be forgetting that none of their successful innovations were nearly as drastic as the one they're attempting to pass on to the industry now. Also; the rumble-pad and analog stick were introduced when Nintendo was still played a dominant role in the industry. They're not out in front anymore.
Click to expand...
You're correct, Nintendo's more adventurous innovations have failed. However, they were all positioned as accessories; this is the first time we're seeing one of Nintendo's "out of left field" ideas implemented as a vital component of a home system. So the only precedent we really have is their comparatively conservative controller innovations, which as I've already mentioned, succeeded with flying colors. It all comes down to whether you trust N's ability to implement something like this, and I personally do.

The fact that Nintendo is no longer the sole dominant player in the industry doesn't affect this controller's potential for success, it only affects the probability of the other two companies stealing yet another innovation. They probably won't this time, but that doesn't mean it won't be a success.
 
you people are so damn cynical.

instead of just staring at the control and coming up with confused conclusion, invision yourself actually holding it and using it. I can assure you none of you is thinking about the new dimension of control. The one that is NOT on the controller.

You dont need 200 buttons, because one of the controls doesnt use buttons. I.E. The motion detection/gyrowhatever.

fugly, ugly, rippoff, whatever. The motion movement alone is enough to sell me, and then you have wifi, rumble, endless controller extensions, ect, ect.

think about it. in one hand you have basically a light gun, thats really versitle and isnt exactly a gun, depending on gameplay.


I seem to remember the PS9 commercial back in 2000 that showed brain augmentation as a form of gaming. Letting go of the traditional controller is the first step.

Nintendo understands what it means to move into the future. Wait until you touch one.
Touching is Good. :)
 
You might like the idea of three-dimensional movement now.

I can't wait to hear your opinions after you've died 20~30 times in Mario 128 because you shifted in your seat and made Mario walk off a cliff.
 
Optimus said:
Don't get me wrong. I am a Nintendo fan boy, but if you think for one minute that the N64 was ever in a dominant role in the industry...

you're smoking crack! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The N64 was selling quite fine in the early part of it's shelf life (Which is where both of those innovations were introduced). The Playstation hadn't caught on yet.
 
I've been holding off on putting down my opinions but I think I have made up my mind.

The revolution controller is unique and I think it has some potential for some good gaming. The only bad thing is the multi console game supply will suffer. Of course nintendo could also release a traditional controller to have support for more multi platform games and they can also get new games that support the new controller at the same time.

Now if this fails and nintendo gets very little third party support I won't be bitter about it as long as they can keep up with at least 4 high profile first party games a year.

Regardless, I fairly sure I will get all 3 of the consoles relatively early in their life times, Each one has so many exclusives that I want to play :)
 
"I would rather have a video game industry that rewards programmers for games like Ico and reprimands them for games like Doom-Fucking-3...but the mainstream has already wrapped its hands around the industry, and now it's a race to the lowest common denominator." - finalgt

My sentiments exactly.
 
finalgt said:
What I AM arguing is that Nintendo (alone, apparently) seeks to generate profit as the result of innovation, as opposed to Sony and Microsoft, who seek to generate profit as the result of the tried-and-true.
Click to expand...
Well, seeking to generate profit thru innovation has caused them to go from #1 to #3 in the console market. I'll let you decide whether that's a good thing or not.

finalgt said:
Nintendo tried the rumble pad, Sony and Microsoft decided gamers loved it, so they "innovated" the same thing. Nintendo tried the analog stick, and history repeated itself.
Click to expand...
Sony "innovated" putting dual analog sticks on the controller, as well as integrating the vibration function into it, instead of having it as "pak" you attach to it.

finalgt said:
but the mainstream has already wrapped its hands around the industry, and now it's a race to the lowest common denominator.
Click to expand...
The mainstream has its hands around every industry. Do you not get that?

finalgt said:
Clearly, I'm not going to convince anybody of anything, especially the people who take one look at a controller and consider that enough to predict the failure of the console.
Click to expand...
That controller is just the latest in a string of questionable decisions by Nintendo. Maybe not quite the straw that breaks the camel's back, but getting there.
 
nintendo's hardware is it's disease... as far as the flaming goes in this particular forum.

if it doesn't have a GT or an SIR logo, it aint cool. XBOX, PS3......... nintendo; doesn't exactly sound like a performance model. i haven't bothered to look at the system specs because i know nintendo loves the low price point.

i'm all about more horsepower for my gaming and i can't wait for re-engineered clones of this controller to show up on more capable machines.

in the meantime, i'll just keep throwing millions at the graphics card industry to innovate the hell out of pipelines and texel megapexelhexeling...

a good idea is a good idea, 100% pure kudos to nintendo.
 
I can't help but remember what it was like when I first started playing video games ...

I turned the controller as I was trying to turn my car ...
I bounced the controller when I made Mario jump ...
I pulled it back when the enemy jumped at me ...

My mom did it when I let her play ...
My friends did it when they first played ...

I bet you did it too.

Seems like the gaming industry has been looking for something like this for years.
 
Sony and Microsoft represent the commercialization of entertainment for profit, the marginalization of innovation for the sake of mass accessibility and the bastardization of art for the sake of the 15 year olds whose primary concern in the matter of convincing their parents which games to buy for them is the number of guns featured therein.
Click to expand...

QFMT
Quoted for Miss Truth

Im sorry but if you think any Console maker doesnt do this just for the money then you are wrong. I remember being on a fourm way back when MS launched the Xbox and people saying dont get the Xbox MS just wants your money, and I laughed my head off.
I do believe however that once Sony came in with its PS2 the software market for Console games changed drasticly. Your last sentence about 15year olds and guns I agree with but lower the age to 13 or 12 and its much more correct. MS came in and has been pretty good about giving gamers what they want. Power, Memory, Online Gameplay, and 4 players (Refering to the PS2). Game Cube gave a bit of what we wanted and then what nintendo thought we wanted. PS2 gave some great stuff for its time.
 
Sony and Microsoft represent the commercialization of entertainment for profit, the marginalization of innovation for the sake of mass accessibility and the bastardization of art for the sake of the 15 year olds whose primary concern in the matter of convincing their parents which games to buy for them is the number of guns featured therein.
Click to expand...

...somebody must have missed the market analysis that shows that the primary demographic for the Xbox/PS2 is 18+.

Nintendo and their latest innovations have made less and less sense as time goes on. Microsoft made the most recent innovation that had any real significance, and that was Xbox Live. They also brought us break-away cords (Which are essential in dorms). They brought us built-in Ethernet capabilities. They made mass-storage devices a norm in the industry (Even though they're being a little wishy-washy on it now, since it costs so much to implement).

By the way, if you want to call a company for bastardization, perhaps you should look at all the Mario titles and sequels that added little more than graphical enhancements to the package. Moreover, perhaps you should look at the company that promised connectivity would be the next big thing and never delivered. Perhaps you should look at the company that said online gaming wasn't important in the last generation only to turn around and advertise it as being something special this time around.
 
With this controller I definitely see some things lost but a lot of new and exciting potential gained. Did you guys watch the video over at IGN? Did you see the part where the kid was actually swinging the controller and sword fighting?! How can you see that and not think of the enormous amount of fun that would be? Imagine playing Zelda and aiming the hookshot by pointing your hand out exactly as Link does. When your hand moves, his moves. When you push that trigger button, a hook comes flying out and latches on to whatever it was you were pointing at.

Or you could go back to your normal controller and press a joystick.

There is a lot of potential here. I've almost convinced myself that the designers over at Nintendo are PC gamers. Both the DS and the Revolution seem to open up doors for usually PC-dominated genres that the other systems cannot provide. It almost seems strange to think that it was designed by a bunch of Japanese guys. Whatever their intentions were I'm glad to see some change even if it doesn't turn out to be the greatest thing in the world.

Everyone is always complaining about the lack of innovation in all the products we as consumers are given. All movies made nowadays are all the same, 90-percent of the games we get are sequels or just crap trying to cash in on popular movie franchises, and so on. Companies in general follow a formula and won't try anything different because taking risks is...too risky. Well Nintendo is stepping up and doing something different. It's entirely possible that this controller turns out to be a worthless gimmick, but you've gotta hand it to them for at least trying to break the mold and do something new. The Xbox 360 and the PS3, while very cool, are still just PS2s and Xboxs with big muscles. Not that that's a bad thing, but nevertheless they're still just very beefed up reiterations of the old consoles. That is, after all, why the PS3 is called the PS3.

Because I don't want to be flamed I'll use this opportunity to say that both the PS3 and Xbox 360 look awesome and chances are high that I or one of my brothers will buy one. :D
 
gamz247 said:
Stuff.
Click to expand...
Way to not walk away from my post with anything. Nintendo is #3 in an industry where the focus is mindlessly killing time. I'm not talking about demographics here, I'm aware most gamers are over 18...I'm talking about content. And the content of the highest volume games is, to put it extremely nicely, intellectually stunted.

You're right, Sony innovated adding not one, but two analog sticks to their controller. And man, playing the games that utilized it was pretty fun, like...Ape Escape.

And...Ape Escape 2.

And...Ape Escape 3.
 
finalgt said:
Way to not walk away from my post with anything. Nintendo is #3 in an industry where the focus is mindlessly killing time. I'm not talking about demographics here, I'm aware most gamers are over 18...I'm talking about content. And the content of the highest volume games is, to put it extremely nicely, intellectually stunted.
Click to expand...
So is the content of the albums that sell the most each week, or the highest grossing movies. Do video games need to be intellectually stimulating in order to be fun for whoever's playing them?
 
The first thing I though of when I saw this controller were Space Combat Simulators. The controller has pitch and yaw built in. Full 360-degree movement. Imagine how much more fun any space combat game would be with that? No more need for a joystick/footpedal combo to *really* effectively move around. You want to go up? Tilt up. Speed up/slow down? Move the controller forward and backwards from the screen. Tilt? Rotate your wrist. Even the most complicated manouvers on a keyboard/mouse/joystick instantly become doable. How many space combat games are there that effectively utilize a flikker (complete nose-over-tail flip with no vertical space used)? It's probably the best controller I can think of for it, and it brings a niche market to the fore. This controller would have made Freespace so much more fun.
 
This is way out there.
But Nintendo has always been about coming up with an Idea and then slowing adding more to it till they get it right.

Look at things like the Game Boy.
Sega had a colour LCD screen and it took Nintendo how many Game Boys before they finally added colour?

Game Boy
Game Boy Color (which wasn't really colour)
Game Boy Pocket
Game Boy Pocket # 2-6 (Pokemon versions)
Game Boy Advance
Game Boy Advance # 2 (with a screen you can see)
Game Boy Advance # 3 (smaller)
Game Boy DS

I think The Revolution will see Nintendo go the way of Sega.
Xbox and Playstation hold the market for a reason.
 
Nintendo has deep pockets, much deeper than sega had. I am glad theres a company that will not hold back innovation because of the risk of losing some money, otherwise we would never get anywhere. This controller is the greatest control device yet. All of you saying "how can I play zelda, how can I play whatever" how do you play them now? By pressing buttons, not very immersing. I would LOVE to play the next zelda game and be able to actually swing links sword, aim his boomerang shot, and throw bombs by actually DOING the actions, not just pushing buttons. Imagine having two of these, one in each hand, and control his shield with one and his sword with the other, combat would be almost real for once, rather than push x swing sword, push y use shield.

Change is good, but is not usually thought to be at first.
 
Majin said:
Game Boy DS
Click to expand...


The DS is not a aprt fo the gameboy line.. nintendo as stated this many times.. so expect to see another gameboy that is not the succesor to the DS soon..
 
finalgt said:
What I AM arguing is that Nintendo (alone, apparently) seeks to generate profit as the result of innovation, as opposed to Sony and Microsoft, who seek to generate profit as the result of the tried-and-true.
Click to expand...

Nintendo seeks to generate profit as the result of game sales. They are no different as a company from SCE or Microsoft. You are idolizing a company based on an image that is not true.
 
CHollman82 said:
Nintendo has deep pockets, much deeper than sega had. I am glad theres a company that will not hold back innovation because of the risk of losing some money, otherwise we would never get anywhere. This controller is the greatest control device yet. All of you saying "how can I play zelda, how can I play whatever" how do you play them now? By pressing buttons, not very immersing. I would LOVE to play the next zelda game and be able to actually swing links sword, aim his boomerang shot, and throw bombs by actually DOING the actions, not just pushing buttons. Imagine having two of these, one in each hand, and control his shield with one and his sword with the other, combat would be almost real for once, rather than push x swing sword, push y use shield.

Change is good, but is not usually thought to be at first.
Click to expand...

Greatest control device yet? How can people criticize the pessimists for being quick to judge and completely overlook statements like that?

Sorry, but anything more than a flick of the wrist will be impossible to program for. Do you realize how difficult it would be to make a game recognize, register, and execute a 3D motion while taking into account the different players that will be using the device (In the case of your boomerang example, a young child will have a small-arc due to their shorter arms, where an older person will have a larger arc due to their longer arms. The same applies with the sword, boomerang, and bomb examples. They might be able to make the system work for a few simple tech demos that will be only used by a handful of people, but making that system work flawlessly for millions of consumers is going to be an impossible task that most developers simply aren't going to bother with.

Also, how will you be moving your character around while doing all these complex actions with specific motions (IE, how will you be moving link around while moving the sword in a duel at the same time?).

This is the perfect example of an idea that sounds brilliant on paper, yet will be nigh on impossible to execute in true applications.
 
No I did not read the part about sensors, so this is really a glorified Power Glove. Just what I want stuff to place around my TV to get this to work. Yeah I can see all of America going for this one. But hey ya never know. Nintendo came up with the D pad, analog sticks have been around for PC's for ages, and honestly the SNES pad sucked in comparision to the Sega Genesis., their propietary format for disc content is less innovative and more $$ control for Nintendo back from their cartridge days so they can control all manufacturing. If Nintendo is so glorious in your eyes why are the #2 in Japan and #3 here, and has the least amount of software? Geez they aren't infallible Gods ya know. Virtual Boy, and for extreme lack of innovation how many more GB ripoffs can you foist on kids? GB, GB Pocket, GB Color, GBA, GB SP, GB DS, and GB Micro whatever. That's not innovation thats greed pure and simple for most of them.

Gamecube and it's lack of DVD playability, and online play has hurt it more than anything. The Big N, stumbled huge this last round. So please stop slobbering over them.

I will say for some niche games this controller will be huge, but I don't see it taking over the world. It will get them lots of buzz for the time being, but they got to come up with the games (from N and 3rd party) to back it up.



steviep said:
AARGH! is right...
Yes, we will see. In the meantime, read the rest of that article. Also continue to challenge your brain with phrases such as "unfinished technology" and also understand that there will be sensors placed on the sides of or behind your TV (again, in the article) so no matter what size or type your TV is, it will work. As for multiplayer, the details haven't been spilled, yet. However, one can easily say that the sensor in the remote in relation to the sensors on the TV can properly position you as to your location in relation to the TV set. So even if you're off to the side, you can still aim and fire. Which, to me, sounds like it can and will be more accurate than a mouse.

Believe me, if anyone can make it work, Nintendo can. After all, they, I believe, are the first company to make a slot load drive that can accept mini DVDs (gamecube discs) without having them get lost. They also drove every other innovation in control, as previously mentioned. I'd be willing to put money that this thing catches on.

If only the negativity disappeared and this was seen in the proper light, it should at the very least show you the lack of non-visceral progress on the part of the other 2 system makers. As bruenor so eloquiently put it.

PS AARGH! you're wrong. The Dreamcast came here with analog sticks beforehand, to North America. However it was (documented) that the n64 in japan is where analog was re-introduced to the videogame market. Nintendo reinvented analog. I'm talking in its current form, not the arcade joysticks of the 70s or the atari "breaking things that resemble joysticks" of the 80s. Give credit where credit is due, though, that Sega was another company that liked to think outside the box, even if they didn't reinvent analogue control.

Edit OK you mentioned triggers, not sticks. I haven't looked into that one so I can't comment, but again, it wouldn't surprise me if Sega did introduce that one aspect out of the hundreds that Nintendo took the crown for. That said, who's the granddaddy of videogame innovation? Certainly not Sony, and certainly not Microsoft.
Click to expand...
 
Scotch77 said:
Super Nintendo Bro,.
Click to expand...

Uh SNES? that was a glorified rounded NES pad with extra buttongs, top triggers and no they werent analog, but digital.
 
is this the only controller? is this A controller or THE controller?

looks like a remote control + N64 Z button...
 
retardedchicken said:
I disregarded your post after you said that.
Click to expand...

Bah when your a parent you'll understand when your kids are begging for a new GB XX after they just had their previous one for a year because The Big N needed to raise their stock price and want another $149 from ya. DS was a true upgrade, but realistically it's been GB, GBA/SP, and DS. All the rest didn't really need to be put out other than for $$$.
 
retardedchicken said:
you can add expansions to it, lots of possibilities as to what they can have for an expansion to it.
Click to expand...

Awesome.

Maybe we can spend $20 for a each button and eventually make a whole controller :rolleyes:
 
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