• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Official Statement Regarding PS3 Hacking

ShinseiTom said:
Good god man, calm down, it's not an excuse. Everyone knows the exemption in the DMCA is specific to phones, but like the guys said, this is really similar and should be added (just like for almost any other software/hardware pairings). You have a hardware. You have a software. Guy uses hack to add functionality to said hardware/software packaging.

What was so special about it being a phone? It can make phonecalls (voice chat!) and is highly portable (well, that's harder for a PS3). Otherwise, how was it so special? Why was it given this treatment yet other hardware/software pairings are ravenously rejected by people like you? I honestly want to know why.
Click to expand...

Ashbringer said:
I would also like to know why.
Click to expand...

It's a broken record excuse. Check other threads here on the same topic and you'll see the same pattern: "We should be able to do whatever we want since it's just like jailbreaking". One reason I could see cellphones having an exception is for people who want to switch from one carrier to another that uses compatible tech (GSM to GSM based carrier or CDMA to CDMA based) and don't want to get double-dipped to move the phone over.

All I'm saying is people need to quit spreading bullshit. If people want to include consoles on the exceptions list, then they need to make a compelling argument to the Library of Congress, who has the power to make that change. FWIW, I don't like the DMCA anymore than the next person due to its draconian nature, but unless it's repealed for a better system that protects IP without screwing everyone else over we are stuck with it.

The other solution is to completely eliminate the Sony software on it and have a "cleanroom" alternative installed so that Sony can't complain, other than not letting you on the PSN (one probably couldn't get onto the PSN anyway with an alternative).


next-Jin said:
Because unlike phones, Sony's entire business model revolves around the sale of software. I know of no one that cares about hacking phones, it hurts no one. In this case however there are damages. Damages to the software developers, sony employees, users on PSN, etc.
Click to expand...


Software, accessories and subscriptions (and I suppose devkit sales too).
 
What gets me is the people who keep saying Sony has lost the war, Sony has done a brilliant job at shutting it down every twist and turn. The case against Geohot has stopped the hacks cold, why? because unlike what everyone says and thinks, the master key was never made public, only Geohot and fail overflow have it, and neither one is willing to do anything with it at this time. Geohot used the master key to create a signature that current hacks use, but sony quickly patched the system to stop it. Every time a work around has been found to allow hacked consoles onto ps net, sony has fixed it within days.

I have to say Bravo Sony for keeping on your toes.
 
EvilWays said:
Software, accessories and subscriptions (and I suppose devkit sales too).
Click to expand...

I went with the majority, if Sony did what Microsoft does and charged for all sorts of little accessories or they had a pay for online service I would have went with those as well. PSN+ is barely profitable atm I think, maybe even losing money. :)

Sony is just protecting their interests, I would do the exact same thing given their position.
 
next-Jin said:
Piracy is a number of things not just being illegal. Downloading something you did not pay for is piracy in every sense of the word. If I go to the pirate bay or whatever and download entire seasons of House then that is piracy.
Click to expand...

Downloading something that is not being played as re-runs is one thing, but downloading a TV Show that is being currently aired via OTA services is NOT piracy. The source of the download is irrelevant.
 
Ruoh said:
Downloading something that is not being played as re-runs is one thing, but downloading a TV Show that is being currently aired via OTA services is NOT piracy. The source of the download is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

You're, . . . just wrong.

Watching OTA or online via the companies website is NOT the same as downloading the series ( A.K.A. PIRATING )

Watching it OTA or on thier website you watch commercials that pay for that broadcast, buying the DVD you pay for that content directly. Downloading it commercial free without paying for it is pirating.

Care to try again because you are 100% wrong.
 
next-Jin said:
Because unlike phones, Sony's entire business model revolves around the sale of software. I know of no one that cares about hacking phones, it hurts no one. In this case however there are damages. Damages to the software developers, sony employees, users on PSN, etc.
Click to expand...

The way they choose to market their products is none of our business. If they wanted to sell it at a loss hoping for software revenue, fine, but as soon as someone paid what they asked for it's fair play. They should charge more for a PS3 if that's the problem, but doing that and trying to turn the tables when the bargain doesn't suit them isn't good.
 
next-Jin said:
Because unlike phones, Sony's entire business model revolves around the sale of software. I know of no one that cares about hacking phones, it hurts no one. In this case however there are damages. Damages to the software developers, sony employees, users on PSN, etc.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that the stuff you buy isn't yours. If I wanna hack my PS3, then I'll do it. It's my machine, and I'll do what I want. If I wanna use it as a door stop, then that's what I'll do.

The problem is your buying something, when it seems like you're renting it. It's like the PS3 in your living room is still Sony's, and you don't have a say in what you can do with it.
 
compudocs said:
You're, . . . just wrong.

Watching OTA or online via the companies website is NOT the same as downloading the series ( A.K.A. PIRATING )

Watching it OTA or on thier website you watch commercials that pay for that broadcast, buying the DVD you pay for that content directly. Downloading it commercial free without paying for it is pirating.

Care to try again because you are 100% wrong.
Click to expand...

I guess I shouldn't watch TIVO'd content and skip commercials anymore, ehh?
 
cdr_74_premium said:
The way they choose to market their products is none of our business. If they wanted to sell it at a loss hoping for software revenue, fine, but as soon as someone paid what they asked for it's fair play. They should charge more for a PS3 if that's the problem, but doing that and trying to turn the tables when the bargain doesn't suit them isn't good.
Click to expand...

That's true, but there are still damages outside of just Sony's profit margins. I agree with what your saying, but I doubt a system where a console costs 1200 dollars or whatever or is subsidized by some 2 year contract agreement is going to work. The argument is going to be how can we best bring these services to people and still have profitability across the board and safe PSN usage. The only way you can do that in that market is by having the same business model that Microsoft and Sony have. Otherwise we would be playing on Wii like Sony and Microsoft consoles.

It's a case that should be addressed by the proper channels certainly. But in my humble opinion I would rather Sony/Microsoft do what they do instead of them changing their business model and make me pay an absurd amount of money to cover the inevitable losses from piracy (from their perspective since there are two sides to that story).
 
Ashbringer said:
The problem with this is that the stuff you buy isn't yours. If I wanna hack my PS3, then I'll do it. It's my machine, and I'll do what I want. If I wanna use it as a door stop, then that's what I'll do.

The problem is your buying something, when it seems like you're renting it. It's like the PS3 in your living room is still Sony's, and you don't have a say in what you can do with it.
Click to expand...

You can do whatever you want to do with it, just do not expect to be on PSN anymore. Most everyone agree's with that, hell even I do. Hack your console all you want as long as you lose PSN access I could care less.

There are sort of two arguments going on in this thread atm. :p
 
Ashbringer said:
The problem with this is that the stuff you buy isn't yours. If I wanna hack my PS3, then I'll do it. It's my machine, and I'll do what I want. If I wanna use it as a door stop, then that's what I'll do.

The problem is your buying something, when it seems like you're renting it. It's like the PS3 in your living room is still Sony's, and you don't have a say in what you can do with it.
Click to expand...

The hardware itself, you can do whatever you want to it all day long. The issues is the software side. Unless or until there is a legal precedence that gives a definitive answer to the software question, the ball is, sadly, in the manufacturer's court due to licensing. I'd love to see click-thru licensing be done away with.
 
LordCalin said:
What gets me is the people who keep saying Sony has lost the war, Sony has done a brilliant job at shutting it down every twist and turn. The case against Geohot has stopped the hacks cold, why? because unlike what everyone says and thinks, the master key was never made public, only Geohot and fail overflow have it, and neither one is willing to do anything with it at this time. Geohot used the master key to create a signature that current hacks use, but sony quickly patched the system to stop it. Every time a work around has been found to allow hacked consoles onto ps net, sony has fixed it within days.

I have to say Bravo Sony for keeping on your toes.
Click to expand...

Not even close. For every exploit publicly used (and eventually patched), the hackers already have 10 other, non-published exploits at their fingertips (the number is an exaggeration, but they will still have several to use yet). It will still be a game of cat and mouse. Sony now faces the same dilemma that Microsoft faces in that each patch is only good until the next exploit.
 
EvilWays said:
Not even close. For every exploit publicly used (and eventually patched), the hackers already have 10 other, non-published exploits at their fingertips (the number is an exaggeration, but they will still have several to use yet). It will still be a game of cat and mouse. Sony now faces the same dilemma that Microsoft faces in that each patch is only good until the next exploit.
Click to expand...

I'll believe it when I see it, but for now JTAG is not possible on x-box 360's anymore, drive flashing is not on the slim model 360's yet, and some of the older drives can't be flashed to get around the newer protection. (i do say yet because i'm sure it will be eventually, but it's been a fair time already without one), there is no 3.56 patches for ps3 since 3.56 kills the one and only key generated to let the modders publicly sign. And both ban users for being online with them. The wii is the only console that really hasn't done anything to stop people except half-hearted attempts that either failed before starting, or were figured out within a day.

In the end the pirates will win yes, but that will be because the focus of the companies is on the next gen, not because they gave up.
 
TechLarry said:
Ford can't sell me a car, then tell me by voice or on the Nav system that I'm not allowed to drive the car after I've bought it.

This whole shrink-wrap EULA BS needs a trip to the Supreme Court.
Click to expand...
But Ford can refuse to service a modded car.

You can mod the PS3 all you want. Just play somewhere else. Makes sense to me. If the hackers/modders can make their own online network and play each other, then it's all good.

If companies fear that they can't release something on a machine due to it not being secure, then they wont do it. Sony/MS/Nintendo/Apple have to take measures to make sure companies feel safe doing so. I've seen quite a few threads on [H] about console games NOT coming (or delayed to all hell) to PC because of piracy.
 
LightningCrash said:
Honestly, he has. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Then there are horrible tastes involved. There's at least a handful of awesome games. Problem really is that nobody wants to code for the ps3 and just cross-releases, coding for the lowest common denominator.
 
Bohica69 said:
I think they did this announcement because they've realized that they are HOSED and can do nothing to prevent it. By putting the fear of the ban hammer it my prevent some less technical users to decide not to risk it.
Click to expand...

It might have the opposite effect of letting less knowledgable techy-wise users to go ...what? the ps3 has been hacked? Google, ps3 hack. I wonder what this ps3 hack is all about OMG FREE GAMES?!?!? USB KEY? DOWNLOAD OR BACKUP RENTAL GAMES FOR FREE and run them from the HD? Woooooooooohoooooo!
 
djoye said:
When you initially boot the PS3 and use it do you have to accept any terms? I figure if you setup a PSN account they'll make you accept terms but other than that are there any?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. When you get a ps3, there's a slip everyone ignores that said read the manual prior to use for warranty, proper usage instructions, etc etc. You know, that thin paper sheet you throw away and just rip open the plastic, plug it in and start fiddling around?

In the manual, it has a huge tos and tells you that if you don't agree to immediately return the product to the retailer. The manual you were suppose to read before operating for warranty information, etc. By plugging it in and ignoring that little peice of paper, you sadly agreed to the ToS.

Whining about it in the after-effect is roughly the equivilent to the people whom say "but but, why did my contract get auto-renewed? I didn't agree to that when I signed my name at the bottom of the agreement that agrees to that! That's nonsense that I should be held to something in the fine print that I didn't read before signing which is legally binding that I agreed to!". You can be pretty sure the army of Sony lawyers who made the PS3 ToS did it very well.

That being said, jailbreaking should eb allowed.
 
Evil Juggalo said:
Yeah, People cant really be too mad.. MS has been doing this for years..

Sony had a good run with security up until a couple months ago, but the mad scramble to push out as many update as possible is really pissing me off.. I dont user my PS3 for much other than netflix and my movie server and now it seems every time I turn on my PS3 there is another update that takes 30 minutes to DL/Install..

They should turn it into a revenue machine.. Any console found hacked should only be able to go online with a paid sub..
Click to expand...


Dont be mad at sony then, be mad at the people causing sony to have to do these releases.
 
Ruoh said:
I guess I shouldn't watch TIVO'd content and skip commercials anymore, ehh?
Click to expand...

Ruoh said:
Downloading something that is not being played as re-runs is one thing, but downloading a TV Show that is being currently aired via OTA services is NOT piracy. The source of the download is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Your clueless.

You paid your cable provider to view that content, if you download it from some website, they are not being paid to stream it to you.

get a clue, if you download the content from a source other than that approved by the provider = illegal.

it is not a grey area so stop trying to justify being a criminal if you do in fact download content.
 
Deadgye said:
Then there are horrible tastes involved. There's at least a handful of awesome games. Problem really is that nobody wants to code for the ps3 and just cross-releases, coding for the lowest common denominator.
Click to expand...

Clearly you should name some of the awesome games.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Your clueless.

You paid your cable provider to view that content, if you download it from some website, they are not being paid to stream it to you.

get a clue, if you download the content from a source other than that approved by the provider = illegal.

it is not a grey area so stop trying to justify being a criminal if you do in fact download content.
Click to expand...

copyright infringement is seldom a criminal offense.

If you have the DVD then there is nothing wrong with downloading an hsfs of the DVD, as you are permitted to keep backups. Netflix comes into play, research and fair use comes into play, etc

Lots of loopholes.
 
LightningCrash said:
copyright infringement is seldom a criminal offense.

If you have the DVD then there is nothing wrong with downloading an hsfs of the DVD, as you are permitted to keep backups. Netflix comes into play, research and fair use comes into play, etc

Lots of loopholes.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure his key principle was "Paid for", it does not matter how via Netflix (Paid), Cable Subscription using Tivo (Paid), Streaming from Providers website (Paid via ads), Hulu (Paid via ads), I do not think anyone here at the [H] would have any issues downloading content from the web in which you already owned the content for be it BD, DVD, HD DVD, CD, Cassette, VHS, etc.
 
next-Jin said:
I'm pretty sure his key principle was "Paid for", it does not matter how via Netflix (Paid), Cable Subscription using Tivo (Paid), Streaming from Providers website (Paid via ads), Hulu (Paid via ads), I do not think anyone here at the [H] would have any issues downloading content from the web in which you already owned the content for be it BD, DVD, HD DVD, CD, Cassette, VHS, etc.
Click to expand...

Using that logic, the OTA transmission is "paid for"
Which is that the person he was responding to was saying.
 
LightningCrash said:
Using that logic, the OTA transmission is "paid for"
Which is that the person he was responding to was saying.
Click to expand...

He was responding to someone that compared skipping Tivo commercials to someone who downloaded an HD TV show with the commercials already edited out saying it's the exact same thing and he was wrong. Piracy is specifically getting content you did not pay for. It's the same thing as saying you do not have any sort of media in your home other than the Internet and you download an entire Season of House and consider it not being piracy because it's already offered OTA. You did not contribute in any way, it's asinine to assume it's not piracy.
 
next-Jin said:
Piracy is a number of things not just being illegal. Downloading something you did not pay for is piracy in every sense of the word. If I go to the pirate bay or whatever and download entire seasons of House then that is piracy.
Click to expand...

Wow... So what if I download a tv episode that was on tv last night?
Am I a pirate? I didn't pay for it. You are incredibly out of your mind. You should be on the hunt for pirates, go on noble crusader. Show em.
 
Stardusted said:
Wow... So what if I download a tv episode that was on tv last night?
Am I a pirate? I didn't pay for it. You are incredibly out of your mind. You should be on the hunt for pirates, go on noble crusader. Show em.
Click to expand...

please read the rest of the thread and put everything into context next time.
 
next-Jin said:
He was responding to someone that compared skipping Tivo commercials to someone who downloaded an HD TV show with the commercials already edited out saying it's the exact same thing and he was wrong. Piracy is specifically getting content you did not pay for. It's the same thing as saying you do not have any sort of media in your home other than the Internet and you download an entire Season of House and consider it not being piracy because it's already offered OTA. You did not contribute in any way, it's asinine to assume it's not piracy.
Click to expand...

No, he quoted separate statements, which you assumed meant the person offered a comparison. According to your reasoning, gifts, receiving OTA HDTV, receiving OTA radio, FTA satellite, and downloading public domain works is piracy. That's not to get into other uses of the content.
If a person simultaneously watches a TV show and downloads the same content in an h264 stream from the Internet, is that piracy? Is it piracy if they download the h264 stream in a time disparate from the OTA ATSC broadcast?

Take a moment to consider the answer. Your response will articulate your knowledge on the matter.
 
next-Jin said:
I'm pretty sure his key principle was "Paid for", it does not matter how via Netflix (Paid), Cable Subscription using Tivo (Paid), Streaming from Providers website (Paid via ads), Hulu (Paid via ads), I do not think anyone here at the [H] would have any issues downloading content from the web in which you already owned the content for be it BD, DVD, HD DVD, CD, Cassette, VHS, etc.
Click to expand...

Christ on a cracker, you are obstinate. Can you tell me exactly how I'm "paying" to save OTA content to a Tivo, then "skipping" the commercials? And how exactly that's illegal?

In the next scenario, can you tell me what the difference between the above, and just downloading the episode, with the commercials already removed? Keep in mind, the fee for Tivo only covers the scheduling content, and has nothing to do with licensing fees to the networks.

I don't know why I'm even bothering though, it's far removed from the thread topic at this point.
 
Your paying for your Tivo service, it's the exact same thing as saying I didn't pay for my Comcast DVR to skip commercials.

What would be the better argument would be building your own HTPC and setting it up for OTA recording with automatic commercial skip software. (unlike Tivo or a DVR some software will automatically remove those commercials) However at that point it's a completely different topic because there are many TV shows that are downloadable which are not OTA.
 
Ruoh said:
Christ on a cracker, you are obstinate. Can you tell me exactly how I'm "paying" to save OTA content to a Tivo, then "skipping" the commercials? And how exactly that's illegal?

In the next scenario, can you tell me what the difference between the above, and just downloading the episode, with the commercials already removed? Keep in mind, the fee for Tivo only covers the scheduling content, and has nothing to do with licensing fees to the networks.

I don't know why I'm even bothering though, it's far removed from the thread topic at this point.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying, but that seems to be a legal grey area that I'm sure will be challanged eventually, if it hasn't already. For instance, it's ok (for sake of argument) to record/dub music from the radio for a mixtape :p... but that doesn't make downloading a song that you listened to on the radio legal.

With a Tivo, you're getting the content with the commercials included (regardless if you want to watch them, fastforward through them or cut them out completely). That doesn't then make it ok to go and download them from another source. The station that your Tivo recorded from had paid it's dues to broadcast that show to you... the torrent site that you downloaded it from hasn't. It's not public domain... someone somewhere owns the IP for it. I don't necessarily have a problem with people doing that though... just playing devils advocate.
 
dr.stevil said:
I know what you're saying, but that seems to be a legal grey area that I'm sure will be challanged eventually, if it hasn't already.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I originally said. Grey area. IIRC, your mix tape scenario has already been shot down. The old VHS bouts are what give some backing to the scenario I've posed. Hopefully it will not be changed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top