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Member when....

I was thinking something similar...as what was posted earlier.

Vega 10 ends up benching slightly better then the 1080, and Vega 11 ends up slightly faster then the 1070. I also fully expect AMD to do something like stick two Vega 11 chips on a board with HBM and be slower than the newest 1080GTX.
So they end up late to the party just to catch and Nvidia and the PR team calls it a win.
 
Bahanime said:
It would be a bit hard for reviewers to have a sample when the only samples are engineering ones with that funky USB3 hardware attached to it. ie. Lab samples currently.

Maybe if this were April, it would be more likely for retail samples to be floating in the wilds before an official launch. But nobody had real samples of Polaris 5 months before it launched, besides AMD.
Click to expand...
Kyle already explained what was going on.
 
tviceman said:
Well I guess this means big Vega won't come close to either Titan X nor 1080 TI performance. I'm guessing little Vega to split 1070 and 1080 performance while big Vega is 10-15% slower than the already cut-down Titan X.
Click to expand...

The fact that someone in particular liked my post has the potential to suck donkey nuts. Price stagnation will reign supreme.
 
Drunk Kyle is best Kyle. I remember when he got completely smashed and spent the entire night tearing up the forums. That is a man that shouldn't be allowed near any kind of communication device unless mostly sober.
 
LMT MFA said:
9500 non pro mod to 9700 pro bitches, unf unf unf
Click to expand...

The only experience I had with this particular mod was when my brother bought what he believed to be a 9700 Pro on ebay, that ended up being just a flashed 9500 and it produced artifacts in BF2. Was a sad day.
 
I remember when we still had separation between members and memories.
 
Bahanime said:
Everything has to be filtered & approved by the PR guys and in many ways it is much more boring.
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Tell that to the guys doing the Radeon PR videos, or whatever trollish wiseguy decided on the naming scheme for AM4 chipsets.
 
I member when the sensible choice was always ATI for a good 10 years. Between 2002 and 2012 I made some detours to NVIDIA, but always ran back to ATI screaming.
 
[H]ard|OCP is at it's very best when Kyle is posting news, reviews and commentary. What's unfortunate is that the rest of the time, it's often a click-bait, link regurgitation site these days.

I come here for Kyle, and his real journalism. He creates and uncovers the real news, and does not simply link sarcastically to somebody else's work, which is often fake-news bullshit.

We need more Kyle. You help keep the tech industry honest and call out bullshit when it's not. You are one of the last great tech journalists, and I truly appreciate how difficult this can be in this day and age of politically correct, ass-licking times.


I'm sorry if I upset any [H] staff with this comment, but I'm old-school anti-bullshit, like this sites owner...
 
I had the ATI POWER !


aticards.jpg
 
tviceman said:
Well I guess this means big Vega won't come close to either Titan X nor 1080 TI performance. I'm guessing little Vega to split 1070 and 1080 performance while big Vega is 10-15% slower than the already cut-down Titan X.
Click to expand...
That sucks.
Even driver mojo can't fix that much distance.
 
hurleybird said:
Then state as much, flesh it out, point out the bad signs in terms of Vega, the mischaracterisation of Polaris' perf/watt, the general slowdown of architectural advancement since Tahiti, and contrast that with the old ATI. (Personally I think AMD's largest mistakes were in the 4870-5870 era. They had a huge advantage and completely squandered it. A big die version of RV770 would have obliterated its generation right when they needed to shake the stigma of the second class solution). If you know that Raja bears a lot of responsibility for the GPU teams disappointing performance, make an argument for it. I mean, you can run your website however you want, but random brain farts like these should be on Twitter if anywhere at all, and are especially unbecoming on the front page. You want to give AMD a good excuse to start excluding [H] again? Acting totally unprofessionally while levelling vague insults at them puts you on the right track.
Click to expand...

How the [H]ell could you take the quotes as an insult? Was definitely a call out to the pussy Raja that harkend back to yesteryear when ATI's leadership would stir it up both in-house and out to give their product a voice and bring some attention to the fact they actually were trying to be movers and shakers in the market! You simply don't see and hear the excited slips from random in-house sales execs that would give you the piss shivers in anticipation that their engineering team was about to go full Globetrotter on the competition.

Frankly, if it hadn't been for various posts on this site and a rare one or two others through the years, I'd have thought ATI's GPUs simply weren't worth looking at from an enthusiasts-hard-earned-money standpoint anymore. It use to be a universal constant to read and hear ATI and Nvidia chiefs raising the roof on their current and future lineups on all the tech sites that would lead to many lost hours trying to make a decision. Since AMD bought ATI, it feels like it's been more and more a one sided PR campaign led by Nvidia.
 
The_Heretic said:
I had the ATI POWER !
Click to expand...
I've had 11 red cards to date (not including when I went CF)
Rage Fury, Radeon, 8500, 9000PRO, 9600XT, 9800PRO, X1950PRO, 5770, 5850, 290X

Right now I'm only on my 8th green card.
 
NeoNemesis said:
Bloody shame. Seems to happen to all Canadian companies when they get too big.
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That's how it goes with buyouts. They break the valuable part of the company when it gets bought out or merged.

Some people chop them up intentionally. They absorb and destroy any competition. Others do it with no malice, but good intentions. Which can be the most cruel.
 
We were all hoping AMD was effectively skipping a generation to catch up or surpass Nvidia. The reality probably is Vega won't compete with Nvidia ultra high end. Vega will hold up to 1080 while consuming more power and costing more because of HBM2. All this a year later. Its very depressing.
 
I got so excited back in the late 90's with my new Rage Pro 8mb. Then tried the Nvidia Riva TNT 16mb but went back to various Ati cards for over 15 years. But had to jump to Nvidia again last month in order to have Deus Ex MD and Watch Dogs 2 be playable at highest or nearly highest settings.

------------------------
i7 6700 3.4ghz || Titan X Pascal || Win 10 Home || AsRock H110M-DGS || Onboard Sound
16gb Crucial DDR4 || Toshiba HD 1tb || Cooler Master 750W || 27” Samsung Lcd 2560x1440
 
my 9800 pro kicked so much ass I still have it. Sits in a bin, but was the first card I physically modded. Added v-ram heatsinks, and upgraded to a chrome orb gpu core cooler.


AMD, is blowing smoke and mirrors now. I mean they have final retail silicon of their Vega gpu in production and they give us a little peak at performance in a best case scenario. There is absolutely zero reason at this point not to show performance. IF AMD had a product which beat the 1080, then they could have showed it beating the 1080, much like they did with ryzen vs the 6900k/6700k. I'm afraid that Vega just isn't as competitive in gaming loads as we all hoped it would be. The whole virtual address space thing and High speed bandwidth cache is a pretty good clue they focused on the professional side of things.
 
tviceman said:
The fact that someone in particular liked my post has the potential to suck donkey nuts. Price stagnation will reign supreme.
Click to expand...

Right, it's getting more expensive to be a pc gaming enthusiast, back a few generations, we could had the top big monster chip for around $600. Now it's $1200.

And no, this inflation argument is bullshit because pc hardware has not gone that route. In fact, any electronics sector, your fancy tvs, gadgets, has been giving consumers more for less due to tech advances (node jumps, massive scale). Except for GPUs.

I feel dirty that I even thought about buying a GTX 1080 for $649 a few months ago. A fraken small mid-range chip that would have gone for $299 a few gen ago.

Ultimately, a non-competitive AMD is not something any sane gamer should be cheering about because they will bend over and allow Intel/NV to pwn their wallets.
 
Bahanime said:
Right, it's getting more expensive to be a pc gaming enthusiast, back a few generations, we could had the top big monster chip for around $600. Now it's $1200.

And no, this inflation argument is bullshit because pc hardware has not gone that route. In fact, any electronics sector, your fancy tvs, gadgets, has been giving consumers more for less due to tech advances (node jumps, massive scale). Except for GPUs.

I feel dirty that I even thought about buying a GTX 1080 for $649 a few months ago. A fraken small mid-range chip that would have gone for $299 a few gen ago.

Ultimately, a non-competitive AMD is not something any sane gamer should be cheering about because they will bend over and allow Intel/NV to pwn their wallets.
Click to expand...

That's not true. Phones for example cost more and more.

Transistor cost no longer goes down in cost(Unless you spend money like Intel and perhaps Apple on the IC design) and development times gets longer and more expensive. Same reason why less and less companies can afford node reductions. Discrete cards on top also loses volume, tho people move up in SKUs.
Cortex_A17_1.jpg

14nm-Ramp-IBS.jpg

11635d1406145622-sfdsoi2-jpg
 
Last edited:
Shintai said:
That's not true. Phones for example cost more and more.

Transistor cost no longer goes down in cost(Unless you spend money like Intel and perhaps Apple on the IC design) and development times gets longer and more expensive. Same reason why less and less companies can afford node reductions. Discrete cards on top also loses volume, tho people move up in SKUs.
Click to expand...

Well in that case bring on the 28nm 5ghz CPUs! Yeah yeah, I know, not that easy.
 
Cobra said:
Well in that case bring on the 28nm 5ghz CPUs! Yeah yeah, I know, not that easy.
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Haha ye.

Raja actually said something many people forgot. And its something everyone knows but doesn't talk much in public about.

"Having to do more with less." And less in this case refers to transistor count. The days of "double up" seems over.
 
Bahanime said:
Right, it's getting more expensive to be a pc gaming enthusiast, back a few generations, we could had the top big monster chip for around $600. Now it's $1200.

And no, this inflation argument is bullshit because pc hardware has not gone that route. In fact, any electronics sector, your fancy tvs, gadgets, has been giving consumers more for less due to tech advances (node jumps, massive scale). Except for GPUs.

I feel dirty that I even thought about buying a GTX 1080 for $649 a few months ago. A fraken small mid-range chip that would have gone for $299 a few gen ago.

Ultimately, a non-competitive AMD is not something any sane gamer should be cheering about because they will bend over and allow Intel/NV to pwn their wallets.
Click to expand...

Give AMD some credit too. They launched the 7970 10 weeks ahead of the GTX 680 for $550 and was 10% slower out of the gate. Had the 7970 been more in line with 6970 prices ($379-399) OR had much better drivers, GTX 670/680 would have been cheaper and/or not well received.
 
tviceman said:
Give AMD some credit too. They launched the 7970 10 weeks ahead of the GTX 680 for $550 and was 10% slower out of the gate. Had the 7970 been more in line with 6970 prices ($379-399) OR had much better drivers, GTX 670/680 would have been cheaper and/or not well received.
Click to expand...

But there is a lot of ifs in that. In reality the 7970 was one of their last successes.
 
Shintai said:
But there is a lot of ifs in that. In reality the 7970 was one of their last successes.
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7970 turned out to be fantastic with age. All I am saying is that AMD raised prices first and left the door WIDE open since for Nvidia to happily follow suit and then some.

Hopefully, Vega being as late as it is, can bring some price correction. Even if little Vega comes up 10% slower than a GTX 1080 and is less efficient, a hypothetical $399 price tag would be a winner for consumers (And $299 for cut down little Vega that matches 1070 performance).
 
tviceman said:
7970 turned out to be fantastic with age. All I am saying is that AMD raised prices first and left the door WIDE open since for Nvidia to happily follow suit and then some.

Hopefully, Vega being as late as it is, can bring some price correction. Even if little Vega comes up 10% slower than a GTX 1080 and is less efficient, a hypothetical $399 price tag would be a winner for consumers (And $299 for cut down little Vega that matches 1070 performance).
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It aged well because AMD didn't come up with anything new since.

And for price, it wasn't so special as you make it to. It was more a reality of the times.

399 and 299 for Vega parts would be a disaster for AMD. Sure you may feel you win, but AMD is the big loser and so is the long term.
 
Shintai said:
It aged well because AMD didn't come up with anything new since.

And for price, it wasn't so special as you make it to. It was more a reality of the times.

399 and 299 for Vega parts would be a disaster for AMD. Sure you may feel you win, but AMD is the big loser and so is the long term.
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It's not going to be an optimal situation for AMD no matter what. Pascal beat Polaris out of the gate and that right kept AMD in the corner. If Vega can't win on performance, then obviously it has to win on price. $399 for small Vega wouldn't be disaster if it's less than 350mm2, uses traditional gddr5 or g5x, and within 10% of gtx 1080.
 
tviceman said:
It's not going to be an optimal situation for AMD no matter what. Pascal beat Polaris out of the gate and that right kept AMD in the corner. If Vega can't win on performance, then obviously it has to win on price. $399 for small Vega wouldn't be disaster if it's less than 350mm2, uses traditional gddr5 or g5x, and within 10% of gtx 1080.
Click to expand...

Big Vega for now seems to be the 1080 competitor on a good day. Small Vega? Who knows how far down that one will end.

A 350mm2 small Vega die will cost more than 2x for AMD than the Tahiti die did. And that's without factoring in other cost increasing parts.
 
Shintai said:
That's not true. Phones for example cost more and more.

Transistor cost no longer goes down in cost(Unless you spend money like Intel and perhaps Apple on the IC design) and development times gets longer and more expensive. Same reason why less and less companies can afford node reductions. Discrete cards on top also loses volume, tho people move up in SKUs.
Cortex_A17_1.jpg
Click to expand...

If you look at that chart, 14/16nm is very close to 28nm in cost already and it's quite early in the node. Within another year, maturity ensures 14/16nm will be cheaper.

Phones have dropped in price, except for the few flagship Apple/Samsung devices. Brick phones used to cost several thousands. These days a cheap smartphone has more features and is faster than previous flagships.

As for the expense of Apple/Samsung, they are now no longer consumer electronics, but a luxury or even fashion item. It got there due to marketing.

It's clear that NV marketing wants consumers to think of GPUs as a luxury item, not to be compared to regular PC hardware. It's how they justify exorbitant prices and why people like you jump in to defend their rising costs. ;)
 
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