Looking for a Source Control System

[Kris]

I'm looking for a Source Control System and I'm having a hard time finding one that will fit my needs.

Since most of my own development (which is what I need Source Control for) is amateur / hobbyist (i.e. not largely commercial), I can't afford to go a Visual Source Safe or TFS route.

I need something that can run on a Windows 2003 Server and not require shares (which rules VSS out).

I also need something that works via a user login but also hashes user passwords (which rules SVN out as I don't understand how to set everything up for this; I believe I'd need additional plugin(s) for this).

I basically want something that's very easy yet cheap / free, can integrate into Visual Studio as well as XCode, and can install on Windows Server 2003 without issue. IIS integration would be nice but is not required.

I've tried SVN but couldn't figure out how to set it up without Apache and get it to work with hashed user passwords. SVN seems too complex for me.

I've tried Perforce which seemed decent but even with the GUI I couldn't figure out how to separate repositories / projects (i.e. I could setup multiple work spaces but that was local only; everything seemed to be mixed under a depot folder server side). It also kept telling me my security level did not require passwords and I could not figure out how to change this. I also couldn't figure out how to integrate it into Visual Studio, XCode and possibly Windows Explorer (though I probably just didn't dig far enough). The price is also a bit much; the free version would probably tide me over for sometime but the full verison is a bit expensive.

To be honest, I use TFS at work and it seems like an awesome system but it's just too expensive. What do you use or does anyone have any recommendations for me?

 

[pcbird]

Any particular reason you don't want to integrate SVN with apache? Once you do that you can either use hashed passwords or go the next step and integrate it with your LDAP/Active Directory.

Anyway, as for setting up SVN easily I'd recommend VisualSVNServer (it's free). www.visualsvn.com. It handled the apache integration and if you want the LDAP integration. I don't personally use the server side of it (I've got my SVN system integrated into my existing apache system that front ends about 6 things but I am evaluating the Visual Studio integration. If I decide to make use of it, instead of just using TortoisSVN then I think it will cost me $50.

 

[calebb]

I setup an SVN server at work w/ virtual box & OpenSUSE on a Server 2003 box -

It's actually not that difficult to set it up with AD integrated authentication (no hashes at all!) - or hashed passwords ala htpasswd.

I can't say enough good things about SVN - the windows explorer-integrated client is outstanding. It's easy to make/merge branches, it's easy to setup an emailing script (ruby or whatever) to email everyone on your team with checkins (globally or to specific branches, etc) that includes all code additions/deletions -

But... the one thing I'll say about SVN - there aren't any good comprehensive tutorials out there for setting it up properly. Someday when I have time maybe I'll find some other SVN admins to help write something up -

 

[Kris]

Any particular reason you don't want to integrate SVN with apache? Once you do that you can either use hashed passwords or go the next step and integrate it with your LDAP/Active Directory.

The problem with using Apache is my server has IIS setup and is visible to the web. I'd rather not have two web servers running at once (extra resources being used and another security risk as I'm not very familiar with setting up Apache).

I also do not have Active Directory or LDAP (this is only to be used with a few machines and will be used mostly by myself).

I've tried to configure SVN before and managed to get it running with VisualSVNServer but that installs Apache which is not desired. I did not see a non-Apache option to password hashing but then again, I'm not comfortable at all with configuring tools such as SVN (I'm not really sure why no one really has a comprehensive GUI administration tool with servers like this; they're pretty easy to make ).

I currently use SVN with a project I'm working on for two different schools (one in America and one in Argentina, interestingly enough) so I really like it but I just find configuring it to how I want is either impossible or too difficult for myself to do. I don't really have time to learn the ins and outs; I really need a solution that's install and go.

Perhaps it would be better to setup on my OS X Mac Mini rather than my web server... but that's another issue; it's already setup by default (I believe) on OS X 10.5 and I've tried getting it to work but I have no clue how.

 

[mikeblas]

PerForce is free for small projects; two users and five workspaces.

 

[Kris]

PerForce is free for small projects; two users and five workspaces.

I've checked out Perforce and it seems nice (see my first post) but I didn't see any really good tools such as Tortoise for Explorer integration. Are there any really good and free tools like Tortoise for Perforce? What about good Visual Studio plugins? Also, can Perforce be used with XCode?

 

[BillLeeLee]

I've checked out Perforce and it seems nice (see my first post) but I didn't see any really good tools such as Tortoise for Explorer integration. Are there any really good and free tools like Tortoise for Perforce? What about good Visual Studio plugins? Also, can Perforce be used with XCode?

P4 has Explorer integration if you install the P4 client.

XCode has built in P4 integration.

Visual Studio has a P4 plugin.

http://www.perforce.com/perforce/products/ide_table.html

 

[mikeblas]

Perforce has its own Visual Studio plugin. Yes, Perforce works with Xcode, too.

In your first post, it sounds like you're confusing depots with directories. A depot is essentially a single server. Separate projects look like first-level directories under that depot.

 

[Kris]

Oh ok I get it now. Thanks! I'd like to give Perforce another try but I still have two concerns with it:

1. Is there a server configuration guide or perhaps a really good Administration GUI? I couldn't figure out how to change anything relating to the Security Level even though the P4V utility told me it was at the lowest possible point.

2. Perforce requires that I start the Workstation service. Since this is on a web server I'd rather not do this. Is there any alternatives to enabling this?

 

[mikeblas]

I'm getting confused. You've got a public web server that's also your source code server, and you need passwords, but this is all for hobby use, so you don't want to spend anything? That's really a tall order, once you add it all up.

I've always used the various tools included with Perforce and not worried about third-party tools for it. I've written a few scripts to do interesting things, but those are mostly driven by internal team process needs, not simply administering the server. Practical Perforce is a great book for learning the finer points. The tone of your posts leaves me wondering if you expect to use new software without first learning it -- if you don't understand how it works, that's your problem, not the fault of the software.

If Perforce requires the workstation services, then I don't think you have a choice; it requires the worktsation services.

 

[calebb]

Whatever choice you make, perhaps you should install it on a VM on your production server to minimize its impact?

 

[InorganicMatter]

VisualSVN Server. Simple MSI installer- built in Windows/AD authentication. Can't be beat!

 

[Kris]

I'm getting confused. You've got a public web server that's also your source code server, and you need passwords, but this is all for hobby use, so you don't want to spend anything? That's really a tall order, once you add it all up.

Well I have a VPS that has practically no traffic and a large amount of space so I'd like to put it to good use as a source code server as well. I don't think it's a tall order though: It has to run on Windows Server 2003, use secure passwords for login... and that's about it. While I'd rather not spend anything, I'd be willing to pay as long as it's not too expensive (commercial Perforce is a bit expensive so I'm still talking cheap).

The tone of your posts leaves me wondering if you expect to use new software without first learning it -- if you don't understand how it works, that's your problem, not the fault of the software.

I'd like to know a high level overview of how it works and I'd like to learn how to use it. I have no desire to waste my time learning how to configure and set it up beyond some simple settings though.

If Perforce requires the workstation services, then I don't think you have a choice; it requires the worktsation services.

Do you know what (if any) security issues this can create?

Whatever choice you make, perhaps you should install it on a VM on your production server to minimize its impact?

My "server" is a VPS so it's already virtualized

I'm just trying to make efficient use out of it since it's extremely light on web traffic right now as we have multiple projects not yet deployed.

VisualSVN Server. Simple MSI installer- built in Windows/AD authentication. Can't be beat!

I already mentioned this one up top. It's a nice and simple installer but it installs Apache and since I already have IIS running on a Windows server I'd rather not have to work about another security vector. That would also use up additional resources. I am curious as to how the Windows authentication works, however.

 

[InorganicMatter]

I already mentioned this one up top. It's a nice and simple installer but it installs Apache and since I already have IIS running on a Windows server I'd rather not have to work about another security vector. That would also use up additional resources. I am curious as to how the Windows authentication works, however.

You're running IIS, and concerned about Apache being a security hole? Do we see a problem in the thought pattern here? Run Apache on an alternate port, don't expose it to the internet, problem solved!

As for authentication: the standalone CLI SVN server only uses a simple password file to authenticate users. Moving the server up into Apache (via mod_dav_svn), allows you to use all of Apache's authentication methods, SSL processing, etc.

 

[devman]

I knew nothing about SVN, and learned how to use it in a day (granted I have a strong background in Unix-like systems). It's not a tough system to learn and I currently use it to track all my projects. For secure connections you have a few options all very secure. You can set it up with Apache w/ SSL. You can use the svn+ssh:// protocol or you can use a standard svn:// protocol wrapped in an ssh tunnel. With Apache you get all the standard Apache authentication options. Using either SSH method you can use standard password authentication, or you can use a more secure public key challenge method. I personally use a wrapped svn:// protocol with public keys because its quick and secure.

Everything you need to know about SVN can be found here http://svnbook.red-bean.com/

 

[Kris]

Thanks all. I ended up going the VisualSVN Server route and it works very well.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Thanks all. I ended up going the VisualSVN Server route and it works very well.

Told you.

If you want a kickass project system (Issue Tracker, Wiki, Time Management, etc.) that integrates EXCELLENTLY with SVN, look at Redmine.

 

[Kris]

Told you.

If you want a kickass project system (Issue Tracker, Wiki, Time Management, etc.) that integrates EXCELLENTLY with SVN, look at Redmine.

Yeah it's very nice. I even have a scheduled backup for everynight that works quite well using 7z. Redmine also looks very cool but I don't have any of the Ruby stuff installed on my server. I may revisit it next year though.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Yeah it's very nice. I even have a scheduled backup for everynight that works quite well using 7z. Redmine also looks very cool but I don't have any of the Ruby stuff installed on my server. I may revisit it next year though.

Easy. Just use the one-click Windows installer. It comes with Gems, which is Ruby's version of apt-get or zypper. Just use install what you need with Gems, and you're good to go with Redmine.