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Is the ROI worth mining?

S

sasquatch182

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
142
Is it worth it to even invest in mining equipment? I have access to really cheap electricity but if the break even takes a year to pay for the equipment, it's not something I want to get into.

Thanks for any info
 
These days, i feel you can ROI very quickly given mining ecosystem maturity (software/pools/exchanges) if you have the advantage of cheap electricity.

At my current rate of gain, i can ROI a 3.5k rig in ~3-4 months.
 
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Obsolete GPU can be repurposed, retains some value.
Obsolete ASIC = boatanchor.

CPU mining is a third profitable option. Since every GPU rig needs a CPU,
it might just as well be one that can mine a useful return on that investment.

My Ryzen7 (588 hash XMR at 3.6GHz with default cooler) brings $40/month...
$99 Ryzen 3 overclocked to 3.9GHz might provide even faster ROI.
Only real cores count, so thats what, like $21/month???

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=882
Or add a four way UPCIE switch to any B350 board, if you find a better deal.
 
Last edited:
sasquatch182 said:
Is it worth it to even invest in mining equipment? I have access to really cheap electricity but if the break even takes a year to pay for the equipment, it's not something I want to get into.

Thanks for any info
Click to expand...

How could you not want an ROI within a year?
 
Kingkau said:
How could you not want an ROI within a year?
Click to expand...
What I mean is if it takes more than a year to break even, I don't want to get into it. But if it can pay for itself in approximately 6 months, than yes I want to buy the gear.
 
sasquatch182 said:
What I mean is if it takes more than a year to break even, I don't want to get into it. But if it can pay for itself in approximately 6 months, than yes I want to buy the gear.
Click to expand...


It would be very difficult if even really possible to get a full return in 6 months with added electrical costs...

I am starting out as well, and you could always do something like I'm doing... In June I built a pretty bad ass gaming rig for myself, tge first pc i have had in years... I had no intention on mining just to game... Now I'm currently using it to mine and get around $5 a day, i just made a bit of an investment in it and I'm expanding it with 2 more 1080 ti's.

Start somewhere and let it see where it takes you
 
sasquatch182
AMD => 8GB RX570/580s
NVidia => 6GB GTX 1060s, 1070s, 1070 Ti's, 1080 Ti.

Avoid the 4GB RX cards, the 3GB GTX 1060s, and the 1080.

If you are going AMD, you will need to bios-mod your cards to tune out the memory. Anorak has a website with those bios mods posted.

If you go the NVidia route, make sure to powerlimit the cards down into the 65-75% range.
 
Here's a 60Mh Eth mini-rig suggestion for fast ROI.

Quantity 1 ea.
Any forgotten PC from the closet with at least one open PCIe slot, and one open MOLEX connector.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-3-S...-30-3-in-H-Storage-Unit-31424PS-YOW/202353582
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/XT-...-Riser-Mining-Card-Connector/32828008473.html

Quantity 2 ea.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/479133/MasterWatt_Lite_500_Watt_80_Plus_ATX_Power_Supply
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24P...ard-Multiple-add2PSU-Adapter/32822319443.html

Quantity 4 ea.
https://www.evga.com/Products/produ...=GeForce+10+Series+Family&chipset=GTX+1050+Ti

Note:
Daisy chain MOLEX from your PC to the external relays for coordinated ATX start/stop.
Beware 1050 powered by MOLEX or SATA will draw power entirely on one yellow wire.
Two 1050 on any one SATA or MOLEX string is the threshold of smoking a modular pin!
Suffering this inconvenience, 1050 mines ROI very fast, and will save you a ton of money.

Just be careful how you distribute the load among available cables, you will be mining 60Mh
for about 240W + whatever your old PC draws. Twin external supplies is only about obtaining
sufficient strings of non-modular cable on the cheap, not about needing a combined 1000W.

FTW 1050ti offers real 6pin power and extra fan, but I wouldn't pay +$30 per card for those.
Pushing the price close to a used 1060 3GB, which by default should have a 6pin connector.
If you can find any bargain 1060s, feel free to mix them in. The card spacing is a bit too tight
for multiple RX570s, only because they run pretty hot, but one could live on the far outside.

Assuming you have legit Win10 licence or eligible for upgrade, you might still want to leave
unregistered to prevent unscheduled nuisance shutdowns. Get with someone who knows how
to slipstream the most recent updates into your scratch install, some drivers may require them.

Pretending rebates are worthy of your effort, all but $110 goes straight toward GPUs.
If you find local sources for the Chinese items, time saved may justify higher prices.
Every month you delay getting started at this entry level is like throwing away $120.
Why are you still reading?
 
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sasquatch182 said:
If I'm going to use GPUs, should I use GTX 1080 boards or Radeon? If Radeon, which version?
Click to expand...

All AMD and Nvidia cards have the advantages/disadvantages to different algorithms. You'll have to do a bit of research to find what you're looking for but I can tell you that I have 12 gtx 1070's currently mining Zencash and I get just about 1 coin a day and as of right now 1134AM 12/01/2017 it is worth $29.97
 
atp1916 said:
sasquatch182
AMD => 8GB RX570/580s
NVidia => 6GB GTX 1060s, 1070s, 1070 Ti's, 1080 Ti.

Avoid the 4GB RX cards, the 3GB GTX 1060s, and the 1080.
Click to expand...
This is terrible advice. the 3Gb 1060 is amazing and you gain nothing with the 8gb vs 4gb RX cards other than some imaginary someday maybe eth will need more than 4gb and no other algos will jump in. Even then thats ignoring cryptonight being solid and other algos that the RX cards do pretty well. 1070's are fantastic due to power and flexibility but for fast ROI nothing but the RX 70/80 and the 3gb 1060's.
 
mkrohn I don't typically respond to folks who call out my advice, but you are out of line.

If my advice was "terrible", yours is just as bad.

As a general pricing scheme, 4GB RX570/580 cards are only ~20-40 less than their 8GB counterparts, and the same differential applies to the 3GB 1060s and their 6GB counterparts.

More ram = more future proof = longer mining career past ROI = optimal resell value
 
I believe only ETH is going to hit the 3GB limit about midway through next year. For most/all other cryptos' 3GB will be fine for the foreseeable future.

I have rigs with 1050Tis, 1060 3GB's, 1070's, 1070Ti's and 1080Ti's.

My favorite is the 1070Ti. I can buy those for $425 and they will do 520 Sol/S @ 130W for an efficiency of right at 4 Sol/W. At 120W, they will still do around 500 Sol/W with a 4.2 Sol/W efficiency.

My 2nd favorite is the 1060 3GB. Can pick those up for $180 and they do a solid 300 Sol/S at around 3.55 Sol/W.

My least favorite is the 1050Ti. They do around 190 Sol/S, but are not very efficient. In fact, nvidia disabled the ability to get power readings from there cards because of know issues with the power measuring circuits on these.

Here's a shot of all my rigs mining ZEC using the dstm miner under nvOC (Ubuntu):

all_miners_12_2_17.PNG


I'm mining using mph and pulling in around 0.35 ZEC a day. In dollars, that translates to about $115, or about $3,450/month. My power bill is only about $300 since I have a large solar array that puts a lot of power back into the grid. So I clear a little over 3 grand a month. I anticipate hitting ROI in right around 12 month on the mining rigs and about 48 months on the solar arrays.

If ZEC or BTC goes up significantly, the ROI will be much faster.

I also have some rigs with decent CPU's doing XMR as well (2x E5 2683 V3 doing about 600H/s each, a 6850K doing 220H/s and a E5 2630L doing about 160H/s).

So yes, I would say mining is very much worth the ROI, even if I paid $0.12 per kWh, which would be my rate without solar.

An added bonus is heating the house in the winter for free. I have my 7 rigs scattered around the house to keep it nice and comfy everywhere. It was a royal pain to run 240V outlets to all the locations as well as Ethernet jacks, but now that its done, I'm happy.

Going forward, I'm going to build my rigs using dedicated 8 PCIe slot motherboards like the ones shown below. They are so much nicer to work with.

8PCIe%20mining%20boards.JPG
 
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pclausen said:
I believe only ETH is going to hit the 3GB limit about midway through next year. For most/all other cryptos' 3GB will be fine for the foreseeable future.

I have rigs with 1050Tis, 1060 3GB's, 1070's, 1070Ti's and 1080Ti's.

My favorite is the 1070Ti. I can buy those for $425 and they will do 520 Sol/S @ 130W for an efficiency of right at 4 Sol/W. At 120W, they will still do around 500 Sol/W with a 4.2 Sol/W efficiency.

My 2nd favorite is the 1060 3GB. Can pick those up for $180 and they do a solid 300 Sol/S at around 3.55 Sol/W.

My least favorite is the 1050Ti. They do around 190 Sol/S, but are not very efficient. In fact, nvidia disabled the ability to get power readings from there cards because of know issues with the power measuring circuits on these.

Here's a shot of all my rigs mining ZEC using the dstm miner under nvOC (Ubuntu):

all_miners_12_2_17.PNG


I'm mining using mph and pulling in around 0.35 ZEC a day. In dollars, that translates to about $115, or about $3,450/month. My power bill is only about $300 since I have a large solar array that puts a lot of power back into the grid. So I clear a little over 3 grand a month. I anticipate hitting ROI in right around 12 month on the mining rigs and about 48 months on the solar arrays.

If ZEC or BTC goes up significantly, the ROI will be much faster.

I also have some rigs with decent CPU's doing XMR as well (2x E5 2683 V3 doing about 600H/s each, a 6850K doing 220H/s and a E5 2630L doing about 160H/s).

So yes, I would say mining is very much worth the ROI, even if I paid $0.12 per kWh, which would be my rate without solar.

An added bonus is heating the house in the winter for free. I have my 7 rigs scattered around the house to keep it nice and comfy everywhere. It was a royal pain to run 240V outlets to all the locations as well as Ethernet jacks, but now that its done, I'm happy.

Going forward, I'm going to build my rigs using dedicated 8 PCIe slot motherboards like the ones shown below. They are so much nicer to work with.

8PCIe%20mining%20boards.JPG
Click to expand...
Is it just that you don’t have to mess with PCI-E risers that makes the 8 full slot onboard pro board ( what’s the model by the way? I haven’t seen anything like that) easier to work with than something like the biostar TB250-btc pro with 12 GPU, or the Asrock 110 with 13 GPU, or the ASUS b250 mining expert with 19 GPU Slots?

And a rack like this with a pile of zip ties?
283B13BC-42F5-4940-9C01-9F793582F113.jpeg
 
Last edited:
atp1916 said:
mkrohn I don't typically respond to folks who call out my advice, but you are out of line.

If my advice was "terrible", yours is just as bad.

As a general pricing scheme, 4GB RX570/580 cards are only ~20-40 less than their 8GB counterparts, and the same differential applies to the 3GB 1060s and their 6GB counterparts.

More ram = more future proof = longer mining career past ROI = optimal resell value
Click to expand...
Again thats only eth. Even at the bottom end of your scale $20 it starts to be reasonable but isnt entirely when you do scaling. At 10 cards thats at one free card. I still have a couple 280x's going due to the gpu being decent. These 3gb 1060s are amazing.
 
Archaea said:
Is it just that you don’t have to mess with PCI-E risers that makes the 8 full slot onboard pro board ( what’s the model by the way? I haven’t seen anything like that) easier to work with than something like the biostar TB250-btc pro with 12 GPU, or the Asrock 110 with 13 GPU, or the ASUS b250 mining expert with 19 GPU Slots?
Click to expand...

I have 4 rigs with risers. A mix of 006C and 007C and even a few of the 008C. *MOST* of the time they work just fine, but when there are issues, they can be a pain. My 8x 1070 rig for example, when using risers, all 8 GPU's are only seen if they are connected in a certain order to the mobo PCIE slots. And I have found that more often than not, the GPU sequence is anything but GPU0 = closets to CPU. I suppose if you don't mix GPU's in the same rig, it's not a problem, but I have been purchasing GPU's over time, looking for the best deals, and often can't get the exact same model as I build out.

I like to keep my rigs at 8 GPU's max in case of issues and performance even though the watchdog in nvOC is pretty good about restarting the miner or the whole rig, as needed, in case of issues. I do like the BIOS trouble shooting features of the Asus Mining Expert to discover issues with risers, GPU's etc, but again, I just prefer to stick with 8 GPU's per rig.

The 8x PCIe mobo's I have are not yet available stateside. I had to order them from China. One is the Onda B250 D8P, the other the Colorful B250A-BTC-PLUS V20. The Onda actually has 4 1x PCIe slots along the back for use with risers, so a total of 12 GPUs are possible. The slot spacing on the Onda for the 8 main slots is 2.5 width, so their is good airflow between GPUs. The Colorful is standard double spacing, so using EK water blocks is possible. One great feature of the Colorful is that all power is supplied via 8x 6PIN VGA power connectors, so using server PSU's without PICO adapters is possible/preferred.

Both mobo's also have msata slots making it possible to boot from a cheap $20 msata SSD and keep things looks nice and tidy.
 
I agree on keeping everything matched when you climb into the higher gpu numbers on a single system. My 12 GPU systems have really been a pain even with matched cards. But I think I got them tamed now.

If MSI afterburner A) supported AMD cards and B) supported more than 8 cards on Windows 10 it would be incredibly helpful.

I still need something to undervolt and overclock a system with 12 nvidia GPUs on Windows 10 update 1709. Without that I’m being forced to mine the less profitable cryptotonight algorithm because of the significant lesser power draw it offers as compared to more profitable algorithms.
 
I just pulled the trigger on building a 6GPU system, as my first dedicated multi-GPU rig I figured start with 6... then when it's reliable I'll build a 8GPU rig.

I'm still undecided if I should run Win10 or not? I am leaning towards yes just because I'm not a big Linux fan..

I'm hoping for under a year ROI on the equipment, I think as long as I can achieve that, I'm doing great :)
 
Missing the point Win10 x64 has been great for running 8 card AMD or Nvidia rigs. Stuff just works.

My previous experiences with more than a few AMD cards on Win7 from previous years were a nightmare in comparison.
 
Missing the point said:
I just pulled the trigger on building a 6GPU system, as my first dedicated multi-GPU rig I figured start with 6... then when it's reliable I'll build a 8GPU rig.

I'm still undecided if I should run Win10 or not? I am leaning towards yes just because I'm not a big Linux fan..

I'm hoping for under a year ROI on the equipment, I think as long as I can achieve that, I'm doing great :)
Click to expand...

What cards you get?
 
Missing the point said:
I just pulled the trigger on building a 6GPU system, as my first dedicated multi-GPU rig I figured start with 6... then when it's reliable I'll build a 8GPU rig.

I'm still undecided if I should run Win10 or not? I am leaning towards yes just because I'm not a big Linux fan..

I'm hoping for under a year ROI on the equipment, I think as long as I can achieve that, I'm doing great :)
Click to expand...
6 gpu systems are about the sweet spot until you really need the crazy density. Lets say you have 12 GPU's. you can either go all in one rig or have 2 6 gpu systems. if you have issues with a rig only half the power is out. I'm starting to upgrade to modern motherboards I had a bunch of them leftover from last time I was mining. soon i'm working on increasing density vs just getting mroe rigs on.
 
atp1916 said:
Missing the point Win10 x64 has been great for running 8 card AMD or Nvidia rigs. Stuff just works.

My previous experiences with more than a few AMD cards on Win7 from previous years were a nightmare in comparison.
Click to expand...
which linux stuff have you tried? i've had fewer problems with linux than windows.
 
Missing the point said:
So far I just bought 2x 1070's, will be getting 4 more in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...
go win 10 instead of linux if you're nvidia. The most profitable jumps around so much on nvidia. SMOS sucks for this. I have a lot of profiles setup but nicehash is pretty great for jumping on random blips that happen. if you had a bunch of 580's I'd say just plug in SMOS and eth. Other than the occasional jump to cryptonight its just best to stay on eth with those. Vega of course is just win 10.
 
atp1916 said:
mkrohn I don't typically respond to folks who call out my advice, but you are out of line.

If my advice was "terrible", yours is just as bad.

As a general pricing scheme, 4GB RX570/580 cards are only ~20-40 less than their 8GB counterparts, and the same differential applies to the 3GB 1060s and their 6GB counterparts.

More ram = more future proof = longer mining career past ROI = optimal resell value
Click to expand...

Ethereum is not even the most profitable coin to mine. It's also one of the very few coins which have ram dependency. It's also not the best coin to mine with Nvidia cards.

I am running 13 Gtx 1060 3gb for 6 months now and they have hit RoI 2 months ago. That is 4 months RoI.
Now I have about $5000 invested in coins and letting it grow, while I reap rewards every month, about $650. I'm not investing anymore, just selling.
And my electricity is about $0.2/kwh.

Saying to avoid 1060 3gb is bad advice.
 
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I just added a 4th Vega 64 and 1080ti. I've got all 8 cards going in my garage and I'm mining with my Plex server which has a 1950X and two 1070's. The 1950X's mining output covers the electric bill for my entire operation.

I've been mining since April/May and broke even back in October after playing the BTC split. Looking for deals I've been able to grab Vega 64's for an average price of $470/each. My net profits from mining are now in excess of my mortgage payment. It's totally worth getting into.
 
Ok, decided on (8) RX 480 8g. The gpu board requires both 8pin and 6pin pci.
looking at EVGA 1200W supernova.
These are the connectors
1 x 24 PIN ATX
2 x 8pin (4+4) EPS (CPU)
6 x 8pin (6+2), 2 x 6pin PCIE
12 x SATA
5 x FOUR-PIN PERIPHERAL
1 x FLOPPY

I plan to get (6) Sata15pin to 6pin PCI express cables
But is that enough
There will be 8 risers that need power as well.
I don't want to burn up the cables or the PSU

What am I missing?
 
So it's not a problem to run two cards off of one of the plugs (think they call them rails)?
 
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Archaea said:
Don't use more than two of the four SATA per SATA power string. (maybe you can get away with three) --- this is generic but solid advice.
Click to expand...

And not more than ONE riser per SATA or MOLEX power string, if a GPU (ohsay 1050ti) wants 75W from that riser.
When you got 6 or more power pins on top of the GPU, generic advice above remains solid.

Mostly "Low Power" GPUs that burn SATA cables, but also some early RX cards violated 75W even with 6pin help...
 
Last edited:
pclausen said:
I have 4 rigs with risers. A mix of 006C and 007C and even a few of the 008C. *MOST* of the time they work just fine, but when there are issues, they can be a pain. My 8x 1070 rig for example, when using risers, all 8 GPU's are only seen if they are connected in a certain order to the mobo PCIE slots. And I have found that more often than not, the GPU sequence is anything but GPU0 = closets to CPU. I suppose if you don't mix GPU's in the same rig, it's not a problem, but I have been purchasing GPU's over time, looking for the best deals, and often can't get the exact same model as I build out.

I like to keep my rigs at 8 GPU's max in case of issues and performance even though the watchdog in nvOC is pretty good about restarting the miner or the whole rig, as needed, in case of issues. I do like the BIOS trouble shooting features of the Asus Mining Expert to discover issues with risers, GPU's etc, but again, I just prefer to stick with 8 GPU's per rig.

The 8x PCIe mobo's I have are not yet available stateside. I had to order them from China. One is the Onda B250 D8P, the other the Colorful B250A-BTC-PLUS V20. The Onda actually has 4 1x PCIe slots along the back for use with risers, so a total of 12 GPUs are possible. The slot spacing on the Onda for the 8 main slots is 2.5 width, so their is good airflow between GPUs. The Colorful is standard double spacing, so using EK water blocks is possible. One great feature of the Colorful is that all power is supplied via 8x 6PIN VGA power connectors, so using server PSU's without PICO adapters is possible/preferred.

Both mobo's also have msata slots making it possible to boot from a cheap $20 msata SSD and keep things looks nice and tidy.
Click to expand...

Any tips on ordering one of those Onda MBs? All I could find it on is Alibaba, and minimum order is 10.
 
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