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Hyperthreading and XP Pro Question

First, make sure the chips have HT, not all Xeons do.
Second, make sure HT is not turned off in the BIOS.
 
Might be a limitation of the XP Pro multiprocessor kernel. I do know that it supports dual CPUs and that it supports HT, but it may only be able to recognize 2 CPUs, logical or physical. Can you get a hold of a copy of Server 2003, (if nothing else download the eval). MS says that XP Pro: "Supports up to 4 gigabytes (GB) of RAM and up to two symmetric multiprocessors." - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/features.mspx I wouldn't look for 4 way goodness on XP Pro. Server 2003 should pick up the other 2 CPUs no problem. If my suspicion is correct, and you require running XP Pro, disable HT in the BIOS to give the full L2 cache to each physical CPU and forget about the logical ones.

EDIT: Further investigation by other [H]'ers has proved my guess to be incorrect. I stand corrected. However, this last line still makes sense:

I can't really envision a workload that would require 4 way SMP and at the same time make sense on XP Pro.
 
Nope, if the Xeons have HT it should show up as 4 procs.
Windows will recognize only 2 physical procs, but it will show the extra HT ones.

Jeff
 
Microsoft considers multiple cores (virtual or physical) in the same physical chip to be one processor. Therefore Hyperthreading and/or dual-core should work in XP Pro. As previously mentioned, probably something to do with the setting in BIOS or capability of the chip.
 
I can confirm XP Pro works just fine one a dual Xeon HT setup. Shows 4 CPUs in Task Manager.
 
the microsoft for you .......Windows95: A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition.
 
Windows 2000 Professional can only see two processors and will consider the logical processor to be another physical processor (which is probably why Windows 2000 doesn't hyperthread as well as Windows XP). If you have two hyperthreaded processors and use Windows 2000 Professional, it will only show the two physical processors.

XP Home Edition supports one physical processor and, if available, a logical processor. Think of it as how Windows 2000 handles a hyperthreaded processor and then add a teletubby interface. :p

Windows XP Professional supports two physical processors. If each physical processor is hyperthreaded, Windows XP Professional will support two physical processors and two logical processors.
 
First step i'd try would be to go into device manager, and under computer, uninstall the MPS multiprocessor pc or whatever it shows, reboot and it should install the proper HAL. Next step would be a fresh install
 
MalfurionStormrage said:
Windows 2000 Professional can only see two processors and will consider the logical processor to be another physical processor (which is probably why Windows 2000 doesn't hyperthread as well as Windows XP). If you have two hyperthreaded processors and use Windows 2000 Professional, it will only show the two physical processors.

XP Home Edition supports one physical processor and, if available, a logical processor. Think of it as how Windows 2000 handles a hyperthreaded processor and then add a teletubby interface. :p

Windows XP Professional supports two physical processors. If each physical processor is hyperthreaded, Windows XP Professional will support two physical processors and two logical processors.
Click to expand...

im using XP Pro.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
First step i'd try would be to go into device manager, and under computer, uninstall the MPS multiprocessor pc or whatever it shows, reboot and it should install the proper HAL. Next step would be a fresh install
Click to expand...

ill try that. its a brand new install, so i dont think resintalling will help, but ill do the device manager thing.

it does see the 2 cpus's, just not the logical HT's
 
Steel Chicken said:
im using XP Pro.
Click to expand...

I know. There was some speculation earlier about Windows XP Professional not being able to recognize the logical processors when you had two physical processors in the machine. This is clearly incorrect and I wanted to show which of the NT Windows supported the physical vs. logical processors. :)

Unfortunately, I don't have a dual processor system (though wanting to get into this) and don't have first-hand experience, so I am absolutely no help in identifying your problem nor being able to propose a viable solution. :(
 
Dual Xeons with HT enabled will show up in Device manager and task manager as 4 CPU's in Windows XP Pro.... From the First Build to the Last.

Confirmed it on my Machine at work.
 
yeah its SP2....hmmm i can try reinstalling SP2 I suppose. hours of searching didnot find anything....
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
Dual Xeons with HT enabled will show up in Device manager and task manager as 4 CPU's in Windows XP Pro.... From the First Build to the Last.

Confirmed it on my Machine at work.
Click to expand...

I found this, but not at an official site.

"Supports up to a dual processor system; multiprocessor support available only in server editions of XP Professional "

To my knowledge MS would not support over 2 CPUs with any desktop OS.....would cut into their server OS sales eh?
 
FrgMstr said:
So XP will support 4 processors?????? I did not know that to be a fact.
Click to expand...
No, it will support up to 4 *logical* processors. It only supports two physical processors
I know for a fact it works just fine on my sig system...
 
FrgMstr said:
I found this, but not at an official site.

"Supports up to a dual processor system; multiprocessor support available only in server editions of XP Professional "

To my knowledge MS would not support over 2 CPUs with any desktop OS.....would cut into their server OS sales eh?
Click to expand...
I never said it was 4 cpus, it just shows up as 4 cpus...

2 Physical - 2 from HT :)
 
FrgMstr said:
I found this, but not at an official site.

"Supports up to a dual processor system; multiprocessor support available only in server editions of XP Professional "

To my knowledge MS would not support over 2 CPUs with any desktop OS.....would cut into their server OS sales eh?
Click to expand...
even with teh new dual cores come out, microsoft has said that dual cores or not, its still one physical processor and licensing will contenue to be as it has been... which means that XP pro will be able to handle *8* logical processors with a dual dual core xeon setup.

along this line, XP pro does not support more than 2 CPU's with any desktop OS... they just define CPU on the physical level and not the logical one, which is good for us :)
 
lithium726 said:
even with teh new dual cores come out, microsoft has said that dual cores or not, its still one physical processor and licensing will contenue to be as it has been... which means that XP pro will be able to handle *8* logical processors with a dual dual core xeon setup.

along this line, XP pro does not support more than 2 CPU's with any desktop OS... they just define CPU on the physical level and not the logical one, which is good for us :)
Click to expand...

makin us buy server 2k3 to use any more than that
:mad:
 
Sojuuk said:
makin us buy server 2k3 to use any more than that
:mad:
Click to expand...

According to Microsoft, a single dual-core processor is going to be treated as a single processor. Two dual-core processors will be treated as two physical processors. Since Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional currently allow you to use up to two physical processors, this means that you will effectively have four processors but use standard Windows 2000/XP Professional.

If Microsoft had not gone this route, it would have meant that users of Windows XP Home Edition wouldn't be able to take advantage of dual-core at all. For once, I see this as a positive step by Microsoft. :D
 
Roger, that you guys are very right. Windows XP Pro out of the box will support two physical processors and two virtual processors. Thanks!
 
Try this. Pull up the task manager, click on the performance tab. Click View, scroll down to CPU History, and make sure the "One Graph per CPU" is checked. I know it is kind of obvious, but you did not mention checking this step.
 
cnealjr said:
Try this. Pull up the task manager, click on the performance tab. Click View, scroll down to CPU History, and make sure the "One Graph per CPU" is checked. I know it is kind of obvious, but you did not mention checking this step.
Click to expand...

ive done it.

i see 2, not 1.
 
Oh well, was worth a shot. I can confirm that on my dually in my sig with XP Pro, that I see 4 CPU graphs in the task manager. Good luck, and maybe a format and reinstall will cure that.
 
cnealjr said:
Oh well, was worth a shot. I can confirm that on my dually in my sig with XP Pro, that I see 4 CPU graphs in the task manager. Good luck, and maybe a format and reinstall will cure that.
Click to expand...

thanks. since its a brand new install im not sure how a reinstall will help. im thinking i just got sold bugged cpu's

but ive got a few more ideas to try.
 
IIRC, you can run the S-spec numbers on intel's site to see if they are supposed to have HT. Also, I know with my system I see 4 lines of processor info when I boot, right before IDE detection. Could we get a screenshot of that?
 
Well you can run the numbers, but I know my LV 1.6's don't show up, so that's not a failsafe way to check. Since I think most of these were processors in blade servers and not pushed to retail, they might not have the codes in their database. You could always run CPU-Z and check to see if it is showing the logical processors. It is a chipset id utility that identifies your processors, if you are not familiar with it. You can find it at CPUID.com . At the bottom of the utility, there is a drop down box - look to see if you show 2 processors and 2 logical processors.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
IIRC, you can run the S-spec numbers on intel's site to see if they are supposed to have HT. Also, I know with my system I see 4 lines of processor info when I boot, right before IDE detection. Could we get a screenshot of that?
Click to expand...

yeah they show up in the boot sequence. you see the two xeons, then the two logical processors enabled.

i work away from home during the week but i will post up a screenie friday evening.
 
cnealjr said:
Well you can run the numbers, but I know my LV 1.6's don't show up, so that's not a failsafe way to check. Since I think most of these were processors in blade servers and not pushed to retail, they might not have the codes in their database. You could always run CPU-Z and check to see if it is showing the logical processors. It is a chipset id utility that identifies your processors, if you are not familiar with it. You can find it at CPUID.com . At the bottom of the utility, there is a drop down box - look to see if you show 2 processors and 2 logical processors.
Click to expand...

yep, familiar with it. ill run it when i get home.

thanks for all the suggestions guys!
 
MalfurionStormrage said:
According to Microsoft, a single dual-core processor is going to be treated as a single processor. Two dual-core processors will be treated as two physical processors. Since Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional currently allow you to use up to two physical processors, this means that you will effectively have four processors but use standard Windows 2000/XP Professional.

If Microsoft had not gone this route, it would have meant that users of Windows XP Home Edition wouldn't be able to take advantage of dual-core at all. For once, I see this as a positive step by Microsoft. :D
Click to expand...


Wait.


So my XP Home will be able to take advantage of Hyper Threaded/Transported CPUs and DualCore CPUs?
 
Komataguri said:
Wait.


So my XP Home will be able to take advantage of Hyper Threaded/Transported CPUs and DualCore CPUs?
Click to expand...
IIRC, dual core intel CPUs won't have hyperthreading except the EEs, at least not off the bat
 
Windows XP Home Edition already sees a HyperThreaded processor as one physical and one logical processor. All a dual-core processor is doing is taking HyperThreading to its logical conclusion. :)

Windows XP Home Edition will support a single dual-core processor but will not support a HyperThreaded dual-core chip.

Does that make sense?
 
MalfurionStormrage said:
Windows XP Home Edition already sees a HyperThreaded processor as one physical and one logical processor. All a dual-core processor is doing is taking HyperThreading to its logical conclusion. :)

Windows XP Home Edition will support a single dual-core processor but will not support a HyperThreaded dual-core chip.

Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

perfectly :)


Never knew Home could take advantage of dualcore/hyper thread.


I always thought it could only deal with a single proccessor, logical or not.
 
You can only use a single physical processor in XP Home. In other words dual Xeons wont be seen in XP Home as two individual procs.
 
@Steel Chicken:

Could you confirm that you installed Windows XP Professional with the ACPI or MPS configuration, i.e. a standard install of Windows? If you selected Uniprocessor or Standard (which I do to force Windows to assign IRQs correctly) then Windows may not recognize your second processor and it's associated logical processor.

Also, have you looked at the system details page on 3DMark05 to see if it recognizes the two phyisical and two logical processors?
 
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