Gaming Build Critique

[Skarr]

Hello, my name is Jonathan and I'm a big fan of HardOCP and have lurked here for a long time, even before I registered.

After more than three years, it's finally time for a PC upgrade after attending the Texas GamExperience and QuakeCon where I won a fair amounts of prizes. I figure I'll just go through the questions in the sticky at the top of this forum. Your wisdom is much appreciated before I take the plunge.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

This PC will be used primarily for gaming. As I am an mechanical engineering senior, this machine will also see it's fair share of CAD and other analysis software. More specifically - Pro-Engineer, MathCad, and ANSYS for the immediate future.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

My budget is about $1000 US before taxes and shipping. There's some wiggle room, but I'd like to keep it to $1000 US plus the components I already have.

3) Where do you live?

Texas, the best state.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

For this build I already have:
- Corsair 1050W power supply
- Sapphire 6870 1gb
- Western Digital 3 TB hard disk

I will need:
-Case
-CPU
-MoBo
-RAM
-Disk Drive
-2nd Video Card
-CPU cooler

I may be able to get a student version of Windows 7 Pro for free.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

I will be re-using a X-Fi Fatal1ty Sound Card.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I'd like to, yes.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

I have a 21" widescreen LCD monitor, but I'd like to upgrade in the future with a second. Just not now.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

It needs to get put together before the 17th so time is of the essence.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

Crossfire for sure. I'm not sure of the practical benefits of some of the other listed features, but I suppose the faster the better. Pardon my ignorance.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I'd a student at a participating school in the MSDN Academic Alliance, so I think I can get Windows 7 Pro for free. That being said, on a new build with no OS, I'm not sure how that will work.

Without further adieu, my prototype build:

CPU: i7 2600k @ $280 + tax = 303 @ Micro Center

MoBo: ASUS p8p67 Pro @ $169 @ Newegg

GPU: Sapphire 1GB 6870 @ $180 @ Amazon

RAM: 16 GB G.Skill Ripjaws @ $100 @ Newegg

Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 @ $140 @ Newegg

Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212+ @ $27 @ Newegg

Optical-Drive: ASUS 24x DVDRW @ $20 @ Newegg

Total - $943

To remind you, I already have a Corsair 1050W PSU and a second Sapphire 6870, and a 3 TB Western Digital HDD. The case is totally up in the air - I may not need such a big one. My previous build used an Antec 900 and it was great. I may also add in a small SSD, but I'm not too sure about those.

Thank you for your advice, I appreciate your time and wisdom.

 

[Dangman]

Do note that you can actually save more money via a Newegg CPU + mobo combo deal like this:
$460 - Intel Core i7 2600K CPU + MSI P67A-GD65 Intel P67 ATX Motherboard Combo

Saves you an additional $13 over buying the CPU from Microcenter. Also I would not recommend that Asus mobo at all since that particular model has been shown to have a higher failure/defect rate than other P67 mobos. Hence my recommendation for a MSI mobo.

Also you can save $6 by going with this DVD burner:
$19 - Samsung SH-S222AB SATA DVD Burner

Other than that, seems like a solid built to me. However if you're unsure about that case, here are some other cases to look at:
$65 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58W ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$100 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$110 - NZXT Whisper WHI - 001BK ATX Full Tower Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-60FN ATX Case
$100 - Lian Li PC-7FN ATX Case
$120 - Velocity Micro GX2-W Silver Classic Aluminum Case with Side Window
$120 - Fractal Design Arc Mini Tower
$127 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Lian Li PC-9F ATX Case
$143 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-002OR Black Finish w/Orange Trim Full Tower ATX Case

 

[ViralRazor]

Higher failure rate? Really? Can you link me? Though I've heard reports of the MSI boards actually being killed and stuck in a boot cycle by bad overclocks (primary and secondary bios doesn't activate, boot doesn't even get that far) and some QC issues with the RAM slots.

 

[Dangman]

Higher failure rate? Really? Can you link me? Though I've heard reports of the MSI boards actually being killed and stuck in a boot cycle by bad overclocks (primary and secondary bios doesn't activate, boot doesn't even get that far) and some QC issues with the RAM slots.

Just search for that motherboard in our motherboard subforum. Numerous threads about that motherboard dating back as far as day one release of the Sandy Bridge platform.

 

[ViralRazor]

Late reply, but forum posts don't count that much. The way it is, ASUS makes more (A LOT MORE) mobos than MSI, so you'll definitely see more threads. I think ASUS makes more than gigabyte too. Though you may be right considering ASUS just launched a rev 3.1 of the P8P67 Pro and the original one has 3 eggs on newegg.

Mind you, I've had no problems with my Z68 other than a slightly long post time and how it takes a little while to initialise the marvell controller (which I don't use anyways >.>)

 

[E4g1e]

Late reply, but forum posts don't count that much. The way it is, ASUS makes more (A LOT MORE) mobos than MSI, so you'll definitely see more threads. I think ASUS makes more than gigabyte too. Though you may be right considering ASUS just launched a rev 3.1 of the P8P67 Pro and the original one has 3 eggs on newegg.

Mind you, I've had no problems with my Z68 other than a slightly long post time and how it takes a little while to initialise the marvell controller (which I don't use anyways >.>)

The only significant change between version 3.0 and version 3.1 of the P8P67 and P6P67 PRO is the USB 3.0 controllers: 3.0 uses Renesas USB 3.0 controllers while 3.1 uses ASMedia USB 3.0 controllers.

 

[Dangman]

Late reply, but forum posts don't count that much. The way it is, ASUS makes more (A LOT MORE) mobos than MSI, so you'll definitely see more threads. I think ASUS makes more than gigabyte too. Though you may be right considering ASUS just launched a rev 3.1 of the P8P67 Pro and the original one has 3 eggs on newegg.

Forum posts do count in my book in regards to the motherboard: We've mostly recommended MSI and Gigabyte P67 mobos the past 6 months and usually without issue. The last few times we've recommended that particular Asus P67 mobo, the buyers ended having issues with them that couldn't be ruled out to PEBKAC. The multiple forum posts regarding that mobo are also backed up by Newegg reviews. The Asus P8P67 Pro has only three stars from 137 reviews whereas the MSI P67A-GD65 has 4 stars out of 299 reviews.

While I do agree that forum posts and Newegg reviews don't count that much in some occasions (i.e PSUs), with motherboards, those sources are good enough to determine a motherboard's viability as a purchase choice.

Also note that I've made no comments on the Asus Z68 mobos so far in this thread. However it appears that the Asus Z68 mobos are significantly more stable than the Asus P8P67 Pro at the very least.

 

[tonytnnt]

3) Where do you live?

Texas, the best state.

I disagree

Now that I've gotten that out of the way,

Microcenter is offering $40 off all of their motherboards when purchased with an Intel CPU. So that means if you were to get the same motherboard as Danny suggested (which is a good one by the way, HardOCP reviewed it if you'd like to read about it) you can walk into the store and get it for:

$460.04 (including taxes, before $25 MIR) - Intel Core i7-2600k and MSI P67A-GD65

(the above are in stock for the Dallas store. Houston is out of stock of the motherboard.)

Next up, the RAM you linked to just shot up to $125. Don't get it. Consider these ones instead:
$100 - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9Q-16GBRL

Alternatively you could go with 8GB for $49
$49 - CORSAIR 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMV8GX3M2A1333C9

For your GPU, I'm a bigger fan of XFX than Sapphire. They have a lifetime warranty and very good customer support. Plus you get some free games at the same price as the Sapphire. I know you already have a Sapphire and want to run them in Crossfire, but fortunately Crossfire will work with cards from different manufacturers (so you can mix and match the brands so long as you stay within the same hundred block -- i.e. 6870, 6850.)

$180 (before $30 MIR) - XFX HD-687A-ZNFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB AND Free copy of Shogun 2 Total War AND Free copy of Dirt 3

I agree with Danny's suggestion on the DVD burner, and he has more experience with cases than I do. From everything I've seen the HAF932 will work for your situation though. It's actually probably bigger than what you need (look for some video reviews to get a sense of scale.) A big downer about the HAF932 is it's lack of front panel USB 3.0. USB 3.0 is the latest version of USB and is significantly faster than USB 2.0. You can tell the ports apart because they're blue (seems to be the standard color on every port I've seen.) The HAF932 does have front panel eSATA though, if that's something that interests you. (Actually, getting an external eSATA hard drive isn't such a bad idea to backup your school work and other important files on.)

 

[Skarr]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for your advice. I've read through this post and have adjusted my build in the following ways:

• I have switched to the suggested MSI MoBo.
• I have swapped RAM as suggested.
• I have changed the case to a Corsair 600TM. It's about the same price, but it looks so damn nice and has great wire management features.
• I have added a Crucial M4 64 GB SSD on which I plan to install Windows.

This brings my new cost to $1069.

I have a couple more questions if you don't mind:

I cross-posted this thread into other tech forums, and some have suggested swapping the i7 with the i5 2500k. Looking at benchmarks, I'm completely unsure. There appears to be little to no difference in gaming (especially when controlling for the 100 MHz difference). I use Excel and Word all the time, but the other engineering software I listed only a few times a week at most. I sometimes have tons of applications running at once (Pro-E, FireFox with a bunch of tabs, music apps, and ANSYS), for what that's worth.

From what I can tell, I'm talking about a difference of, at most, a few seconds. I appreciate fast, but I think I could re-allocate that additional $100 into better cooling.

On that note, what do y'all think of a more serious cooling option? If I got an i5 (or an i7 for that matter), what kind of cooler would I be reasonably expected to have to reach 4.5 GHz?

I spent way too much time looking at cooling options today, and what do y'all think of the Noctua NH-D14? It looks ginormous, but from what I've read it should fit in my case and clear the memory I've selected. I'm looking at this one in particular because it comes with the fans - It may sound silly coming from a mechanical engineering student, but I'm not so sure about buying a heatsink and fan set seperately (like a Megahalem and some accompanying fans),

Again, thank you for your time.

 

[Dangman]

I cross-posted this thread into other tech forums, and some have suggested swapping the i7 with the i5 2500k. Looking at benchmarks, I'm completely unsure. There appears to be little to no difference in gaming (especially when controlling for the 100 MHz difference). I use Excel and Word all the time, but the other engineering software I listed only a few times a week at most. I sometimes have tons of applications running at once (Pro-E, FireFox with a bunch of tabs, music apps, and ANSYS), for what that's worth.

The HT feature that the 2600K should help with all that multi-tasking and those engineering software. However if improved multi-tasking performance and engineering program performance isn't exactly a big deal to you, then go with the 2500K.

On that note, what do y'all think of a more serious cooling option? If I got an i5 (or an i7 for that matter), what kind of cooler would I be reasonably expected to have to reach 4.5 GHz?

I spent way too much time looking at cooling options today, and what do y'all think of the Noctua NH-D14? It looks ginormous, but from what I've read it should fit in my case and clear the memory I've selected. I'm looking at this one in particular because it comes with the fans - It may sound silly coming from a mechanical engineering student, but I'm not so sure about buying a heatsink and fan set seperately (like a Megahalem and some accompanying fans),

Again, thank you for your time.

The Noctua is a good HSF but I don't like the price for it. And yes it does sound silly about being unsure about buying the fan set seperately In any case, it's not a bad HSF to choose if 4.5Ghz is the goal.

 

[tonytnnt]

Generally the only time I suggest a 2600k is for people doing rendering or heavy video/photo work. I suppose a professional engineer running simulation could benefit, but in general the 2500k is the better buy.

 

[charlywiggin]

Looks good to me.