HardOCP News
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Dell has unveiled three consumer systems that are now available with factory installed Ubuntu 7.04 Linux.
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Dell Unveils Three Linux PCs
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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I think what I really want to see if all the Linux guys that have been demanding them, actually buy them. I got 20 bucks that says it is a huge flop. 
ninja edit: I see I just echoed your sentiments Baredor....right there with you.
ninja edit: I see I just echoed your sentiments Baredor....right there with you.
It's hard enough getting GOOD tech support from Dell on a Windows system. I don't even want to know how "fun" it will be trying to get tech support on one of these. I like the idea of a large company like Dell taking the initiative like this, but I mirror what others above have said, I think this is going to not be as hot as everyone thinks.
I've already heard that things like DVD playback and various video/music codecs will not be installed by default (is that correct?). Those in the know won't have issues, but Joe Blow the Linux n00b, who wants to stick it to the man (aka Microsoft), is going to be pulling his hair out over this. And when he goes to try to install a Windows based program... See where I'm going?
I've already heard that things like DVD playback and various video/music codecs will not be installed by default (is that correct?). Those in the know won't have issues, but Joe Blow the Linux n00b, who wants to stick it to the man (aka Microsoft), is going to be pulling his hair out over this. And when he goes to try to install a Windows based program... See where I'm going?
You don't think Canonical's paid support is any good?
http://blogs.the451group.com/openso...s-its-success-tests-canonicals-support-model/
The Dell Linux offering is a start, but at least they picked the right distro for the bundle. I've been a Gentoo user for years, but recently I put Ubuntu 6.10 on a machine that I was troubleshooting. I can honestly say that Ubuntu with the Beryl desktop manager is truly something to behold! You guys owe it to yourselves to play with this wonderful desktop environment!
Manaknight
Supreme [H]ardness
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The problem i see here is the fact that the person who is going to use linux on their system is most likely not going to purchase a dell, the person who IS going to purchase a dell is going to be a hard sell to get to switch from old familiar windows to linux.
Brian Boyko
[H] Consumer Editor
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I'm not going to either echo or diminish the sentiment. Typically, the people who are savvy enough to try Linux are the ones who are savvy enough to build their own systems.
However...
Those guys also have relatives and it'd be very easy for them to recommend a Dell computer with Linux.
However...
Those guys also have relatives and it'd be very easy for them to recommend a Dell computer with Linux.
Manaknight
Supreme [H]ardness
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thats true, while not a linux user or fan myself i don't have anything against it, i still think it's going to be a hard sale. because even if you use the word of mouth method, that userbase installation might not be enough to consider it a financial success.
swatbat
[H]F Junkie
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True but even they would still buy a notebook instead of a barebones one many times.
Also while a lot of us build our own systems many people will buy an oem system for business use. Hell I just got my grandfather a new dell a month or so ago. Why? It was a real good price and quite. Plus it has a 3 yr warranty on the hardware.
I would consider getting a dell with linux for a business that wanted it. Hell I would love to switch my dad to linux but he has hard enough time with windows. Would consider getting him a dell with ubuntu though for his next machine
S
SpeedRunner
Guest
For some reason I really see no hope of success for this.
Anybody have any recommendations for a solid budget laptop instead of this Dell offering? I love Ubuntu on the desktop and I can dual boot it with XP or Vista without a problem. I'm getting comfortable enough with it that I want to use Ubuntu for my mobile computing needs. I was thinking about picking up a used ThinkPad T60. I was really hoping for more of a price differential between Dell's Windows and Linux machines.
I know that; but after looking at what they do for the default windows install, I am sure they will find a way to screw it up.
This dell-linux thing doesnt make a whole lot of sense... If your geeky enough to know what linux is, know what the difference between it and windows is, and are geeky enough to know how to use it... Then you would probably also be geeky enough to build your own pc, and make jokes about dell PCs, and people who use them.
Ive been using linux/unix for quite some time, and im only going to say this once... If you think linux is easier for people who are ordering a pre-built box, and use the term "it wont click" to describe computer related problems, put down your crack-pipe and get with reality. Things in the open-sauce world have come a long way in the past few years, but its still not up to the point of holding your hand through every process (Such as setting up networking, installing a printer, etc).
Im not saying that grandma or grandpa wont be able to use this.. Such as my grandparents, who ever have installed anything, and just use the PC for email and ebay... its not going to be a big deal.
What im wondering, aside from if this will actually be popular, is how does dell plan to support this? Will they provide technical support over the phone for any linux-OS/hardware related problems, or is it just a "use as-is, your milage may vary" type of thing?
Ive been using linux/unix for quite some time, and im only going to say this once... If you think linux is easier for people who are ordering a pre-built box, and use the term "it wont click" to describe computer related problems, put down your crack-pipe and get with reality. Things in the open-sauce world have come a long way in the past few years, but its still not up to the point of holding your hand through every process (Such as setting up networking, installing a printer, etc).
Im not saying that grandma or grandpa wont be able to use this.. Such as my grandparents, who ever have installed anything, and just use the PC for email and ebay... its not going to be a big deal.
What im wondering, aside from if this will actually be popular, is how does dell plan to support this? Will they provide technical support over the phone for any linux-OS/hardware related problems, or is it just a "use as-is, your milage may vary" type of thing?
WarMace
Gawd
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Thease computers will not appeal to the hardcore linux crowd. But they will sell like hotcakes to the "I want the cheapest computer possible" crowd. Oh, and they threw in office too sweet.
You can feel free to PM me your 20$ thx.
You can feel free to PM me your 20$ thx.
Looks like Dell went out of their way to not make the price comparisons easy.
The E520N on the open site has:
E520N
$599 ($749)
E4300
17" LCD (E177FP)
1GB DDR2-667
250GB SATA
48x combo drive
GMA950 (945G chipset? It might be a typo... or not!)
Ubuntu
1 year warranty
The E520 with a Core 2 option isn't available on the Home section.
In the small business section, the E520 has WinXP and Vista Home options:
Vista Home, same specs as Ubuntu system above except with a 19" LCD (SP1908FP) and X3000 graphics (G965 chipset) $689
WinXP Home, same specs as Ubuntu system above except with a 19" LCD (SP1908FP) and X3000 graphics (G965 chipset) $719
So Vista Home Basic, a newer motherboard and a larger LCD is $90 more.
The E520N on the open site has:
E520N
$599 ($749)
E4300
17" LCD (E177FP)
1GB DDR2-667
250GB SATA
48x combo drive
GMA950 (945G chipset? It might be a typo... or not!)
Ubuntu
1 year warranty
The E520 with a Core 2 option isn't available on the Home section.
In the small business section, the E520 has WinXP and Vista Home options:
Vista Home, same specs as Ubuntu system above except with a 19" LCD (SP1908FP) and X3000 graphics (G965 chipset) $689
WinXP Home, same specs as Ubuntu system above except with a 19" LCD (SP1908FP) and X3000 graphics (G965 chipset) $719
So Vista Home Basic, a newer motherboard and a larger LCD is $90 more.
Looks like the Windows version adds some extra software in it, although you can probably get free equivalents in Ubuntu. However, there is no support for Ubuntu at the 409 price. What is the price if the same support that is included with Windows is tagged onto the Ubuntu system? Also as I was configuring the two systems, the Windows one seemed to have a few extra freebies (items included in the price) that wasn't available as an option in Ubuntu. Its not an apples to apples comparison until these things are taken into account.
Also, what is the cost of the extra frustration or extra steps necessary in Linux to get what you would normally be able to do in Windows to work in linux? Its something you cant quantify.
Also, what is the cost of the extra frustration or extra steps necessary in Linux to get what you would normally be able to do in Windows to work in linux? Its something you cant quantify.
Ubuntu support prices (ouch):
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 30 days of Starter support [add $65 or $2/month1]
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 1 year of Basic Support [add $125 or $4/month1]
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 1 year of Standard support [add $275 or $9/month1]
Normally OEMs give 30 days of Windows support free. You don't really need paid support for home users for either OS so I didn't consider it in the prices.
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 30 days of Starter support [add $65 or $2/month1]
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 1 year of Basic Support [add $125 or $4/month1]
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 with 1 year of Standard support [add $275 or $9/month1]
Normally OEMs give 30 days of Windows support free. You don't really need paid support for home users for either OS so I didn't consider it in the prices.
How long would you folks say it'll be before Dell realizes: "Ok, that was a monumentally stupid and costly mistake. Find the Dell "dude" that came up with the idea and tank his ass, immediately."
I can't see it lasting more than 6 months, give or take 3 either way. It's a nice move, I guess, but I really believe Dell is simply wasting their time with this. Besides, one would think having a free OS installed on a laptop would affect the cost significantly - apparently that's not the case so far according to all the machines I just looked at on the website.
I'll give them a B+ for being the first major player to actually say "Ok, let's do this..." and not just on their business/commercial hardware like IBM did with Redhat a few years back and some other OEMs. Dell's efforts are to be applauded, I'd say, but it's just not enough on many levels.
I can't see it lasting more than 6 months, give or take 3 either way. It's a nice move, I guess, but I really believe Dell is simply wasting their time with this. Besides, one would think having a free OS installed on a laptop would affect the cost significantly - apparently that's not the case so far according to all the machines I just looked at on the website.
I'll give them a B+ for being the first major player to actually say "Ok, let's do this..." and not just on their business/commercial hardware like IBM did with Redhat a few years back and some other OEMs. Dell's efforts are to be applauded, I'd say, but it's just not enough on many levels.
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This is, mainly, a non-event. The people who wanted Ubuntu on Dell PC's were people who already had systems. Now, Dell's offering something to people who have no idea what they are getting into. I expect this to be a monumental failure.
Orinthical
[H]ard|Gawd
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Linux is a great dev and embedded OS, don't get me wrong, but I'm afraid you just mentioned why it will never have a serious impact on Microsoft's market share. I do however find it funny how people will demand a major OEM take stands on linux but then patronize it for doing so; stating that the "open standards" and "open architecture" which were demanded, are a mistake due to the fact that "people who have no idea what they are getting into" might buy it.
Ahh well, I think it's a good attempt...
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I totally agree, Linux as an OS in its myriad of flavors is often a good piece of software. Ubuntu is probably one of the most newbie friendly. That doesn't mean the average Joe will be able to use it. I work at a Best Buy in a rather well-off area, financially, and it's amazing how little people really know about pc's and hardware. Adding linux into the mix, with config file editing, new language (imagine some 50 yr old windows user's face when he hears the word tarball)etc...
I think it was nice that they listened to the community, but the people who really use Linux, mostly don't buy from Dell, they know better. The people who do get these systems will be in over their heads.
swatbat
[H]F Junkie
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Thing is it will not knock off near that. No one outside of ms and the big oems really knows what they pay for them but the vista basic that comes installed on the newer dells prob cost dell 40 bucks or less. Also having the option to not have an os loaded would increase costs as people who don't know what they are doing would order systems without one. This adds to phone support and cust sat issues.
That comment, Brian, is a prime example of why people responding in this topic miss the point completely. Why? Because it's quite evident in the above comment that you are looking at the move from an individual, personal viewpoint.
Simple fact is that Dell isn't offering this limited range of Linux-installed PCs as some part of the 'Linux v Windows' nonsense, or to sell for the 'relatives' at home to use. Instead, the product range is aimed at their (predominately) small business customers who are in the habit of running Linux systems rather than Windows systems, and who have indicated that they want to be able to purchase pre-built 'plug it in and go' systems. Business customers who rightly understand that the OS is only the platform for running the productivity applications they use and have their staff trained to use, and who don't want to have to do any stuffing about to obtain that platform.
In other words, these products are aimed at EXISTING Linux users, not at 'converts'. Customers for whom the costs of retraining and application/data migration are prohibitive, Customers for whom the extra costs of product support (if they use it) are not deemed prohibitive.
Similar situation exists for the limited product range Dell continues to offer with XP pre-installed. The Linux-installed and XP-installed Dell machines are designed to be plonked on workplace desktops in workplaces where the customer is basically saying "I already use this and if you try to make me change I'll go buy off somebody else!"
It's a very small portion of the overall Dell customer base, by the way, which is why the option is made available only on a very limited portion of the overall Dell product catalogue.