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Computer Science

D

debrain

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
126
Whats the future look like for this degree and how good will the job market be?
 
I don't remember where I read, but I think the job market is growing for CS majors, and considering the number of CS majors is dropping, there may eventually be an excess of jobs in the future.

However, do NOT pick a major just for "a job". Study what you love... a job will follow. I just graduated with a degree in Computer Science and I love it. Even if I never got a job in the computer industry, I'd still study CS. However, seeing people major in CS just to "get a job" is kind of insulting. It's like hearing someone wants to be a lawyer or doctor just to get rich (although it can be agrued that doctor's are not really getting rich anymore due to increases insurance costs).

Good luck,

Mr_Superstar
 
I agree with Mr. Superstar. If you're really interested in Comp Sci, go for it. The real goal is to do something you love. As far as a job goes, with Comp Sci, you'd find one, even if you have to look for a while.
 
I graduated with my CS degree back in Dec '03. Started the job I've got now in Apr '04. That's alot better than my friends that have graduated with other degrees. The ones with engineering degrees have done okay, but all the rest work in resturaunts and retail.

If you like CS, go for it. You'll be able to find a job.
 
I'm glad to hear some positive outlooks. I myself am a CS major. I wasn't worried so much about being rich or getting the best job ever. I just want to get a job doing somethin fun.

But a lot of people with degrees that I know are working near minimum wage and still need a roommate to even survive financially.

And a lot of people tell me that as a CS major I'll probably not be any better off than a high school grad.

Glad to hear that thats not necessarily the case.
 
NKDietrich said:
And a lot of people tell me that as a CS major I'll probably not be any better off than a high school grad.
Click to expand...

Who's been feeding you that? Having a degree would certainly be helpful more than not, since it shows you have a specialization in something.

What really matters is how well you perform and maybe the school you attend. My school has a pretty famous CS undergrad program, and its CS majors are in high demand (don't ask me why). Prospects will also be good if you are willing to relocate to other places. Texas has a new, burgeoning tech industry, the east coast is slowly growing (the New England-Massachusetts area was considered the future Silicon Valley several years back...), and the midwestern states are seeing some growth in that area I think.

Do what you want, not what you think will get you the most money. And if money is your number 1 concern, then become a corporate lawyer or financial manager or something.
 
BillLeeLee said:
Who's been feeding you that?

What really matters is how well you perform and maybe the school you attend. My school has a pretty famous CS undergrad program, and its CS majors are in high demand (don't ask me why).

Do what you want, not what you think will get you the most money. And if money is your number 1 concern, then become a corporate lawyer or financial manager or something.
Click to expand...

Mostly unemployed and bitter ex-dot-commers. Probably not the most unbiased source. I'm not going to a fancy school because I goofed off too much in High School and got a GED, but I'm finding in college I can keep a near 4.0 GPA without having to stress myself to death doing it because learning comes pretty natural to me.
 
Im not going into CS just for the job or even the money. I was going to study the major because i was interested in computers. I wasnt sure about the job market of the major which is why i asked. Pointless to spend so much money studying something and not ever being able to find a job.

I also thought about mass communications to work in the movie/tv industry.

Ive done some searching on computer science but never really understood what you can do with the major. Not all jobs are sitting in a cubicle and writing code all day right?

Also, which major would have a more interesting job....Interactive Digital Media with a focus in computer science or just computer science?

Thanks
 
With a CS degree, you could theoretically become a software engineer, code monkey (a grunt programmer), project manager, researcher, or maybe a specialist with operating systems or graphics or AI or something.

But CS really has more to do with math and theory, not really computers as most enthusiasts deal with.

And is Interactive Digital Media a heavier focus on graphics work and print and such?

NKDietrich said:
Mostly unemployed and bitter ex-dot-commers. Probably not the most unbiased source. I'm not going to a fancy school because I goofed off too much in High School and got a GED, but I'm finding in college I can keep a near 4.0 GPA without having to stress myself to death doing it because learning comes pretty natural to me.
Click to expand...

The whole dot-com thing was what? 5 years+ ago? Sure the market hasn't been what it was, but if you're worth your salt as CS, I'd think you have found something in that timespan.
 
NKDietrich said:
And a lot of people tell me that as a CS major I'll probably not be any better off than a high school grad.
Click to expand...

That might be a valid statement if you go into the realm of IT. When I graduated back in 2001, there were two main career paths for Comp Scis - engineering or IT. The problem is that a Comp Sci education doesn't really teach IT. My friends that chose the IT path right out of school kinda dug themselves into a rut - they're generally tired of IT now, haven't written code (aside from the occasional login script) in over 4 years, and their actual software skills are going to waste. On top of that, their coworkers are mostly people with non-technical degrees (if a college education at all) who only had moderate interest in computers. So going from that, there is some validity to saying Comp Sci isn't good for IT.

Software engineering, OTOH, is much more along the lines of Comp Sci. IMHO, far more interesting work too.. you don't just use software, you MAKE software. The way you design and write it determines how flexible, efficient, portable, and useful it'll be; the data structures, algorithms, interfaces, and philosophy you put in place are all about Comp Sci, but you already know that.

guess which path I chose :) . I'm still working the same job I was hired into in 2001. It's plenty stable, too. There's always going to be a market for hard real-time embedded software.

It's true that in general, computer-type jobs are more scarce than they were in 2001, but the big software engineering companies (Microsoft, Google, IBM, government contractors, etc..) only slowed their hiring somewhat during the dot-com bust. It's also true that some people launch into engineering or IT and rise among the ranks in their careers without having ever gone to college, but they're a rare breed, and they also missed out on the college experience (i.e. parties, crazy-ass dorm/frat experiences, women, all that fun college stuff).

Definitely stick with it.
 
market is flooded. plenty of demand for experienced workers, but new cs grads will need to pay their dues doing tech support or (if lucky) helpdesk positions for a couple years before they're actually gonna get picked up as programmers or system/database/storage admins.

so yes, a new cs grad trying to stay around IT isn't much better off than a high school grad who's open to anything that pays well, but once you have some experience up your sleeve you might actually go somewhere. but do it cuz you love it, because you're gonna hate it for a while.
 
i'm a CS major right now over halfway through the major...i could graduate this next spring but i'm staying in school to run track and get a BUSINESS minor.....

i have an internship right now at a fortune 500 company doing web app coding for a bank's online system.....i live in the midwest where there is nothing but corn and cows....and i found a great IT place to work. i decided to get a business degree because i dont want to be a bored programmer when i'm 35, i want to be a director of IT and what not.....

you have to get into CS because you love it.....i did and there are jobs....you just have to be more than one-dimensional....
 
BillLeeLee said:
And is Interactive Digital Media a heavier focus on graphics work and print and such?
.
Click to expand...

IDM has 3 main focuses of Computer science, New Media, and visual imaging. Just combines courses from cs, communications, and art. So yeah its a little of all those things and revolves around digital media.
 
I know there are many chemists and such who are in the computer field as well. Of course hardware companies hire chemists to help out with all the fabrication and such. And don't forget the electrical eng who make the chips. :) Lots of the advances in the computer field in terms of speed was done by chemists by doping the diodes and transistors with different materials.

But i'm just wondering if people here are more intersted in the hardware or software aspects of the computer.
 
What I'd recommend doing, is getting an internship or co-oping during the summer in some area that interests you. Even if you can't find one that pays well, it will at least help your chances of finding a job later and help you decide which area of computer science you would most like to work in.

No, I'm not speaking from experience, but from what I've observed. Actually, I'm going to be a high school senior next year, so this summer I did 60 hours of interning for FREE, working with PHP and mySQL. It really helped to show me that I did enjoy programming and learning about computer science, but that I couldn't stand to make web-based databases for the rest of my life... It just wasn't challenging enough for me. (I get bored very easily)
 
ngk said:
i have an internship right now
Click to expand...

This really is the secret. Internships and student jobs are going to help you out immensly when you graduate and it comes time to find a job. While the experience of sitting in a computer lab making sure people don't steal mouseballs might not seem that worthwhile, even having done that will keep you a notch above all the other recent graduates who have no computer-related experience whatsoever. If you can find something better for a campus job during the year - run for it.

...I only wish I knew this as an undergrad.
 
I've already done 2 terms as IT, but I won't be doing anymore to graduate next year.

From everyone I know, do the internships. The best way to graduate is to graduate with experience in the field.
 
As a CS student myself this thread did my heart a lot of good. :D

Every time I've asked for advice its always do internships and student jobs, as everyone here has already said. Also it is my understanding that graduate school makes you a great deal more valuable in this field, though that's just what I've heard.

I was lucky enough to have a lower division C++ class with the department chair at my school, who is cool as hell. He mentioned something really interesting, which is that almost none of the thing he is teaching now were things he actually learned in college back in the early 80's. CS people have to keep learning all the time until they retire to stay in the game, and honestly that's really appealing to me.
 
Grad school makes you more valuable because you either develop a real specialization, do professional/academic research and are considered a colleague of the faculty, and develop skills as a professional writer. That's what I understand (dunno, I'm applying to grad school for next fall). If you go to a really solid grad program, like a Carnegie Mellon or Berkeley or Southern Methodist (software engineering), you will be able to get a job anywhere, since those programs are tough to get into and are very rigorous. All this I picked up from my professor who worked at IBM/Rational for 20 something years when I talked to him about grad schools.
 
Mr_Superstar said:
... do NOT pick a major just for "a job". Study what you love... a job will follow. I just finished graduated with a degree in Computer Science and I love it.
Click to expand...

Very true. If you do a job because you like that type of work, you will naturally excel. A job will follow if you have passion for the work. And no matter what the latest story is in the news, there are jobs for those willing to seek them out.

For example, even with my subteam, we have 3 open positions, and that's after we already hired 2 people in the last 3 months.
 
[MS] said:
For example, even with my subteam, we have 3 open positions, and that's after we already hired 2 people in the last 3 months.
Click to expand...

Did they have to go through the usually long MS interview process? I maybe want to work for MS, but I'm not sure I could make it through their brainteaser phase.
 
BillLeeLee said:
Did they have to go through the usually long MS interview process? I maybe want to work for MS, but I'm not sure I could make it through their brainteaser phase.
Click to expand...

I don't think there are many brainteasers done these days, I know I try not to use them. I tend to focus on writing code, algorithms, data structures, breaking the code of others, and genuine interest in the work or product.

…and when people put SQL or database design on their resume, they had better know SQL and database design (I can get downright unfriendly when I catch people lying on the resume:))
 
[MS] said:
…and when people put SQL or database design on their resume, they had better know SQL and database design (I can get downright unfriendly when I catch people lying on the resume:))
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a guy who had tried to get a job in the department I work in. He had mentioned knowing HTML in his resume, but could'nt say what code a webpage starts with... I guess he's made some pages using dreamweaver or whatever, but it sure looked bad in the interview! :p
 
Empyrean said:
trick question... HTML isn't code
Click to expand...
So what is it then?

You can make an argument for a distinction between markup and programming languages, but at the end of the day, they're both code...
 
mohammedtaha said:
I've already done 2 terms as IT, but I won't be doing anymore to graduate next year.

From everyone I know, do the internships. The best way to graduate is to graduate with experience in the field.
Click to expand...

QFT. I have a job as a Multimedia everything guy from minor programming (asp pages etc) to doing all the graphic layouts and designs for magazines and postcards we do. I like my work but I'd like to narrow my focus on something. I am gaining tons of valuable experience where I am now, but im still worried about the massive debt I've accrued over the last 3 and into my fourth and could be final year. My Degree will be in Multimedia, my minor in philosophy (Duquesne, Pittsburgh) and my job is a small startup type of company with tons of growth potential that I'd love to stay with and grow. I'm not a great programmer or artist, but it's what I love. And im always willing to learn and admit what I don't know :)
 
Empyrean said:
trick question... HTML isn't code
Click to expand...

Not really, just a bad translation ;)

I think tag would actually be the term used, though sometimes going from finnish to english can be a bit confusing. Actually this was pretty irrelevant to the job as there was no programing or web-design needed. The person doing the interview wanted to see if he can trust what's in the CV and also get a touch on the person.
 
A bit off the primary topic, but when it comes to internships, you will find far better ones if you are tight with a professor that has good industry connections and knows you and your abilities well enough to recommend you. They will likely pay more, be better/tougher/more educational/more interesting, and sometimes against much smaller pools of applicants since they are kinda unpublicized jobs that only get resumes from professors(of course this means you will be going against other prof's recommendations who are also no doubt top notch, so you better be too!). This is particularly true as a graduate student (MS or Phd).
 
Glad I found this thread!
Im just a Good Enough Degree right now. Im almost 22, but since 17, I've been working in the computer field.
Ive had jobs ranging from technical support, to network operations, to unix systems administration.
Im lucky I had awesome friends and coworkers who taught me -lots- of stuff, without ever going to school for it.
Right now, Im working at Pacific Power as graveyard network operations / distributed computing.
Its boring, nothing really happens, but I have free time to learn stuff, and explore things I like (and post here)
It pays real well, and will look good on my resume. So from my experience, job experience is key. They hired someone with a Masters in CS with me, and I believe I know more than he does about every day things. Granted, he would own me in design theory and coding, but this position doesnt require that.
I will eventualy go back to school to get a BS in CS, and I think my ~5 years job experience along with it will make me well-rounded person eventualy.
 
You can make an argument for a distinction between markup and programming languages, but at the end of the day, they're both code...
Click to expand...

HTML is not code in the computer science sense of the word.

Code is a very general word with many definitions that can be applied to a wide range of things of which HTML would fall under. (Morse code, genetic code, encryption code, traffic code). However, in the realm of computers the term code has a specific meaning referring to software programs (i.e. source code). Code is applied to languages like C++, Java, PERL, Pascal, Fortran, LISP, and so on and so on. The different ML's (HTML, SGML, XML) apply more to how a document should be displayed and lack most of the features of a true programming language.

While you can argue that HTML exhibits some of the behaviors of code, it is not code. I have never read an argument by a computer scientist that HTML is code. I have never read a book about HTML where the author claimed HTML was code.

Disclaimer: Don't think I don't like HTML or something. It's great... just not code.
 
Empyrean said:
HTML is not code in the computer science sense of the word.

Code is a very general word with many definitions that can be applied to a wide range of things of which HTML would fall under. (Morse code, genetic code, encryption code, traffic code). However, in the realm of computers the term code has a specific meaning referring to software programs (i.e. source code). Code is applied to languages like C++, Java, PERL, Pascal, Fortran, LISP, and so on and so on. The different ML's (HTML, SGML, XML) apply more to how a document should be displayed and lack most of the features of a true programming language.

While you can argue that HTML exhibits some of the behaviors of code, it is not code. I have never read an argument by a computer scientist that HTML is code. I have never read a book about HTML where the author claimed HTML was code.

Disclaimer: Don't think I don't like HTML or something. It's great... just not code.
Click to expand...

It's not turing-complete by far, but it can be seen as source code if you're very lax with the definition. It's a series of human-readable statements that are interpreted to a series of actions. It just happens to have a very limited scope. ;)

(Though lacking variables, any form of flow control and/or tests and any form of functions does disqualify it from realistically being called "source code". DTDs are a bit closer, and XSL is source code, IMHO.)
 
Computer Science is a good degree. There is some theory, like Theory of Computing - finite state automaton, etc., but there is also a good amount of material on OS, networks, database, graphics, and now I'm seeing software design as well. The main idea being to expose the student to a broad range of topics. With a solid background, the student may then focus his/her personal interests on more specific areas, and there develop further expertise. ;)
 
Empyrean said:
HTML is not code in the computer science sense of the word.
Click to expand...

I think you're talking out your ass. There's no 'technical' definition of "code" in the sense we're using it. The closest you can get to a proper definition is from the jargon file - 'The stuff that software writers write... Often used in opposition to “data”'.
 
ameoba said:
I think you're talking out your ass. There's no 'technical' definition of "code" in the sense we're using it. The closest you can get to a proper definition is from the jargon file - 'The stuff that software writers write... Often used in opposition to “data”'.
Click to expand...


I think HTML qualifies as "data". :)
(Not that this neccesarily disqualifiies it as "code".)
 
Guys this was a good thread untill the html arguments started, here have fun.

I hate hearing all the stories about offshoring and job cuts, however the industry does seem to be getting much better. I'm not weather or not to focus on programming and databases or learning a board range of topics. I'm still deciding as I go along.
 
I think you're talking out your ass. There's no 'technical' definition of "code" in the sense we're using it. The closest you can get to a proper definition is from the jargon file
Click to expand...

Or a professor of computer science... but who really listens to them anyway?
 
I can only say more power to all you CSers because I am the worst at math. Thats the only reason that I am not one. :( But there is always good ol MIS, but I do plan on getting my MBA in MIS so I can even stand a chance at getting a job. But I do work at a small computer store and I think that will help me in the long run. Anyways, I agree with the do what you like, not because you want the bling.
 
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