Closed.

[Sycraft]

So as an aside, since you clearly are in to high end AV, if you ever decide you want to look at something different than the B&Ws, I'd highly encourage you to check out Genelec. Studio brand, rather than home theater and their speakers look a little goofy but man are they amazing sound-wise. Don't get me wrong, the 800 series is great I've been a long time B&W fan, though I was never able to afford 800s, but the Genelecs are just another level. The 8351Bs (I haven't gotten to hear the 8361As yet) just don't really have a sound characteristic at all, the sound like the don't exist. It is just a wall of sound.

I know not relevant to the thread, but I spread Genelec fanboyism any time I find someone into ultra high-end speakers

 

[zehoo]

I’m only slightly jealous . If my ~10 year old living room Sony died today this is probably what would replace it.

 

[Sycraft]

I’m interested in any and all speakers my wife will approve!

Sadly WAF tends to be low on Genelecs because they look strange. One thing I have to give B&W, particularly their higher end speakers, is they have kind of an "art piece" look. Genelecs are purely form following function. I don't own any of the big boys, I just have some smaller desk sized ones for my computer desk but I just love them and I've heard the bigger ones and they are amazing. They have a flat frequency response but, equally importantly, precisely controlled dispersion. It is one of those things that finding data on from speaker manufacturers is hard, many don't even test it and if they do, they don't report it. When you have speakers with well controlled directivity they just sound so very natural and sit in the room well.

...of course looks aside it can be hard to convince your wife that "Hey I already spent 5 figures on some super high end speakes... but now I want some DIFFERENT 5 figure speakers"

 

[Sycraft]

The other thing that would propel it to the stratosphere would be bass tube traps along the permimeter walls and in the back corners but that ain’t happening in my family room.

So one of the things I like about the Genelecs, which some audiophiles don't, is that they are all-in-one. They do all their DSP for crossover and room correction internally, and they are active speakers, so the DAC and amps (3 per speaker) are internal to them and matched to the components. You do digital via AES or S/PDIF to them, so no issues of noise induction in the cables.

Now some don't like that because they wanna choose their own amps which, fair enough, but I find that the advantages of an active crossover and them matching the components is preferable.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

I’m interested in any and all speakers my wife will approve!

Bullshit. She doesn’t approve of any of that. There, now go get those speakers. Lol

 

[jbltecnicspro]

You’d be surprised how ugly speakers can get.

Oh I know. I’ve seem some abominations.

 

[Sycraft]

Have you heard Vandersteens? Those use an active system and I know a guy who swears by them.

No, there's a whole world of speakers I haven't had the chance to hear yet .

Active crossovers are pretty cool because they allow the amp to exert more control over the drivers and keep them closer to ideal. The components in a passive crossover reduce the damping factor of an amp a ton, so when those aren't in the way they can control drivers much better and you get lower distortion. Also the crossover itself can be more complex with less audible problems since you can do steeper curves and more complex things in small signal with active components. Or, when the crossover is fully digital, you can do anything you want including using it for EQ and room correction.

Not very common in the home theater market for whatever reason, but real big in studios. I'm a huge fan of the concept and how it sounds in good speakers.

 

[Sycraft]

My problems however are all room related. Even though they are not driven to their potential the speakers are capable of absolutely shockingly realistic production of things like piano, small jazz groups and live rock concerts. There is always something better. However you need a dedicated listening room to go further—there is just too much “room” in the sound unless the room is treated.

Yes... but also no...

What I mean is that yes, having a good room does matter in the way things sound and, all things being equal, you'd much rather have a good room than not.

BUT it also isn't as big a deal as some audio circles make it out to be. What research has discovered is that to a large extent our brains "filter out" the room which is why you can go hear a jazz quartet in a bar with not the greatest acoustics and it can still sound good. This is where the whole speaker dispersion thing comes in to play. Speakers that have really good, even, controlled, dispersion tend to disappear into any room, the quality of room matter less to their sound because to your brain they sound "right". They still benefit from a better room, but are fine. Speakers with more off axis issues need a better room more. In a real well dampened room, the off axis issues don't matter since you listen on-axis and the room eats all the rest. In a more live room, those off axis sounds reflect around, and they don't sound right, so the room is more noticeable.

Also, if you haven't tried it, you'd be surprised just how much we can correct for room issues with math these days. Put a signal under the hammer of modern DSP and you can get some amazing things. Dirac Live is the One True Way(tm) in my opinion for room correction at home. The amount it can improve even good rooms is amazing. I know studios that use it. You can get computer software from Dirac directly, stand alone devices from MiniDSP, or find it integrated in a number of processers like Arcam, JBL, NAD, Rotel, etc. You take measurements with a microphone, their servers throw math at it, and they give you some FIR filters to load on to the device to correct for room issues. It cant' fix everything, but it is amazing how much it can improve things.

They will also be taking it to the next level in some of the devices with Driac ART. In the pro world, using constellations of speakers to not only do surround sound but to actively improve room acoustics is something that has been done for awhile, Dirac is bringing it to home audio devices. Storm Audio are the only ones that have it at the moment. Basically you get an extremely expensive sort audio processor, then an additional expensive license, then set yourself up a surround or Atmos setup and it'll measure and integrate all the speakers together and use them to take room response. I've not heard it in particular, but those that have say it is mind blowing.

 

[Gatecrasher3000]

Dudes got cash

 

[tigger1612]

My 77 A95L will be here this week just before the bowl. Going from a 77 C9. Have a couple S95B qdoleds. Use a 55 as my monitor and 65 in bedroom. I can’t go back to WOLED and didn’t want to give up Dolby vision so that leaves one very expensive option.