ATi's R520 Roadmap

[Jasonx82]

I had a feeling it would be ready just in time for the holidaze... I was surprized to see it was due out sooner, after the forst round of "r520 delayed" messages circulated... they were saying Q1 2006... anyways... still and all, I am hopefully that ATi will pull a rabbit out of it's hat and come back with force... just look at AMD and Intel... Anything is possible.

Im hoping ATI's release date = Nviida's Hard launch..

Im assuming the R520 will be faster then the 7800GTX?

 

[Ackbar]

3dmark has nothing or little to do with, or better yet, can be misleading with how a card will actually perform in a game (which is why I think [H] stopped using it) but in head to head card specific comparo's it can be a fun gauge of performance, 1 card against another of a similar type.
Today, so much depends on the system and resolution you run at that there can be no "meaningful" use except I can use it to know that things are running like they should as long as I get 4900-5000 3dm05 with my 6800gt on my A64 I know I'm in the ballpark.

Back on topic.........

Interesting figure on the R530 if rumor is true is a fill rate of 7200 MTexels (600Mhz x 12 pipes) which is the same, fillratewise, as 6800 Ultra Extreme. Not too shabby for "mid-range". Mem bandwidth is only 22.4 Gb/s though (vanilla 6800 range) I suspect that most cards don't use their total bandwidth and the R530 has that mem moving very fast. If it comes with "mid-range" price like $200-250...............looks tasty.
7800GT=8000 MTexels for $400.

I don't know about that. I've seen a lot of benchmarks that show that DDR1 based cards and others with lower memory bandwidth tend to suffer on todays games. I would say that in today's environment that Bandwidth > MTexels, as far as relative importance is concerned.

 

[ChronicTrees]

wouldnt that mean the majority of the enthusiats willing to dish out that kinda money already have purchased the 7800GTX?

Iffffff it is faster, then that is when you scour the forums for people selling them

 

[Terra]

Ok pxc, yeah I didn't 100% believe it was the right score, although near 4000 is still more reasonable and impressive for a 8p card anyway.. and Terra, I thought I asked you not to quote my messages if you have nothing intelligent but insulting things to say? Thank you.

1. I was correct, your where wrong = I.Q. prize goes to me
2. Your not the "boss" of these forum, if you don't like what I have to say, due to your nag over making yourself looking stupid in an old thread, then put me on ignore...

Terra - Kids...*sigh*

 

[wrangler]

I don't know about that. I've seen a lot of benchmarks that show that DDR1 based cards and others with lower memory bandwidth tend to suffer on todays games. I would say that in today's environment that Bandwidth > MTexels, as far as relative importance is concerned.

It is 1.4ns GDDR3 moving at 1400Mhz. What I'm saying is that I don't think that a card that has say a 30Gb/s bandwidth is actually using that much and whats important is the speed it is moving at and this card has it going blazingly fast.
When I referenced the vanilla 6800 I was reffering to bandwidth only.

 

[BigDaddy85]

1. I was correct, your where wrong = I.Q. prize goes to me
2. Your not the "boss" of these forum, if you don't like what I have to say, due to your nag over making yourself looking stupid in an old thread, then put me on ignore...

Terra - Kids...*sigh*

I sense flame war in language of german.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

I sense flame war in language of german.

Not just german....1337 speak to

 

[Warrior]

Always two there are (for crossfire), a master and an apprentice...

That should answer your question.

OOH... duh...
it was kind of early in the morning .. i was thinking that..... nevermind...

 

[Riptide_NVN]

So R520 XT should be out in early October? Is that October of '07?

 

[MrGuvernment]

yes

07, being 3007

D:

 

[CMAN]

So R520 XT should be out in early October? Is that October of '07?

YES,mabey....

 

[lynxlynx]

what bugs me is that ati dont say anything...what are they waiting for..?
if they have a card that atleast is in production or close to it they will know what it will do.why not say it and let people decide if they wanna wait for it or not..

only reason for not telling is that its on par with the 7800gtx or sub par...becuse if its better thant the best nvidia offering I would be screaming it out loud and clear..even if customers had to wait a couple of weeks....wouldnt you?

 

[Shifra]

what bugs me is that ati dont say anything...what are they waiting for..?
if they have a card that atleast is in production or close to it they will know what it will do.why not say it and let people decide if they wanna wait for it or not..

only reason for not telling is that its on par with the 7800gtx or sub par...becuse if its better thant the best nvidia offering I would be screaming it out loud and clear..even if customers had to wait a couple of weeks....wouldnt you?

the chip has too much publicity. The G70 was being manufactured under our noses around christmas time, no one knew a thing, no one was saying

"Nvidia needs to hurry up and release a friggan product its been 8 months"

The R5 series has got massive publicity so ATI assumes stay out of it until its ready, we already do what they could never hope for, hype it to incredible standards. I'll have the first card i can get my hands on regaurdless of if its proclaimed a bomb or a savior.

And believe me, from seeing what their simple mid range R530 is carrying (12 pipe with last years 16pipe performance), im very confident the R520 is going to be putting up quite a fight, but i'd be more worried about the R580 if i was Nvidia.

 

[razor1]

The g70 was known to be the nv47 along time ago, which would have been the refresh of the nv40, 45's, but never released. And nV never delayed their product. There is no need for nV to worry right now. Its pretty obvious the r520 is 16 pipes, and same with the the r580. But the r580 will have 3 tmu's per pipe, which will give them a good deal of calculation power but will over all increase transitor count and drop mhz. If nV's ultra is on .09 which so far is what everything has been pointing to as a refresh they shouldn't have any issues of uping the clocks a couple hundred mhz from 500 maybe even more since nV has not been using any special insolator or fab process. Now nV has 2 tmu's per pipe which will actaully be easier to produce then a 3 tmu per pipeline design (transitor density is less on nV's side).

Seems arctecture wise both nV and ATi are on the same track, no need for more pipes for the time being just more TMU's to incease shader performance.

on the side a 12 pipe card will perform like a 16, this is the case since the mhz are so much higher. Not that it actaully does do more calculations per clock. This is not good for ATi if they didn't increase thier shader performance. This will be just like Intel vs. AMD.

 

[AlexStenka]

R530 I wonder whats that going to be like.......

 

[Terra]

I sense flame war in language of german.

I could make it in English, German, Danish, Swedish or Norwegian..but I don't start flamewars
If you look back here you will find the reason for all this...

Terra - Und das war es (german)

 

[Shifra]

The g70 was known to be the nv47 along time ago, which would have been the refresh of the nv40, 45's, but never released. And nV never delayed their product. There is no need for nV to worry right now. Its pretty obvious the r520 is 16 pipes, and same with the the r580. But the r580 will have 3 tmu's per pipe, which will give them a good deal of calculation power but will over all increase transitor count and drop mhz. If nV's ultra is on .09 which so far is what everything has been pointing to as a refresh they shouldn't have any issues of uping the clocks a couple hundred mhz from 500 maybe even more since nV has not been using any special insolator or fab process. Now nV has 2 tmu's per pipe which will actaully be easier to produce then a 3 tmu per pipeline design (transitor density is less on nV's side).

Seems arctecture wise both nV and ATi are on the same track, no need for more pipes for the time being just more TMU's to incease shader performance.

on the side a 12 pipe card will perform like a 16, this is the case since the mhz are so much higher. Not that it actaully does do more calculations per clock. This is not good for ATi if they didn't increase thier shader performance. This will be just like Intel vs. AMD.

That clock battle is beginning to turn null an void. GTX's operating at upwards of 530 stock with the dynamic clock in games are pushing it closer and closer to ATI. I dont see 600mhz as much of a leap out of bounds as i do with AMD processors at thousands of MHz less then intel doing the same work.

Look at the 6600GT compared to the Ultra MHz wise. Im willing to bet the counter to the R530, problably going to be the 7600 series but maybe not, will be 500+mhz. In the short history of mid end low pipe count card wars, we've seen the clock speeds jump the most, this is not different except that ATI has one that looks to have some rediculous performance. In the end they are infact getting closer. I think the little card war just got real interesting. Now i just hope ATI worked in some cool tricks, such as the elusive HDR+AA, or even a workable form of HDR that doesnt hammer performance, and i think they've got a winner not only for this year but into next year as well.

 

[razor1]

That clock battle is beginning to turn null an void. GTX's operating at upwards of 530 stock with the dynamic clock in games are pushing it closer and closer to ATI. I dont see 600mhz as much of a leap out of bounds as i do with AMD processors at thousands of MHz less then intel doing the same work.

Look at the 6600GT compared to the Ultra MHz wise. Im willing to bet the counter to the R530, problably going to be the 7600 series but maybe not, will be 500+mhz. In the short history of mid end low pipe count card wars, we've seen the clock speeds jump the most, this is not different except that ATI has one that looks to have some rediculous performance. In the end they are infact getting closer. I think the little card war just got real interesting. Now i just hope ATI worked in some cool tricks, such as the elusive HDR+AA, or even a workable form of HDR that doesnt hammer performance, and i think they've got a winner not only for this year but into next year as well.

Sorry that clock gate speed difference is only really for the vertex shaders. It has nothing to do with the pixel shaders or tmu's, or alus for the matter. So yes the clocks do matter quite a bit when you concider nV's pixel shader pipelines are still going at 430 mhz at stock. The r530 is not the rv530, the rv530 is the mid range and this will go up against the 6600gt or the 7600 when it comes out. And the 7600 is most likely a 12 pipe part, the g72.

You're stretching for a pipe dream, ATi or any company for that matter can't totally revolutionize the industry without a radical change in complete chip architecture. Advancement goes in increment amounts not by leaps and bounds unless they rewrite the entire foundation of GPU structure.

 

[Shifra]

Sorry that clock gate speed difference is only really for the vertex shaders. It has nothing to do with the pixel shaders or tmu's, or alus for the matter. So yes the clocks do matter quite a bit when you concider nV's pixel shader pipelines are still going at 430 mhz at stock. The r530 is not the rv530, the rv530 is the mid range and this will go up against the 6600gt or the 7600 when it comes out. And the 7600 is most likely a 12 pipe part, the g72.

You're stretching for a pipe dream, ATi or any company for that matter can't totally revolutionize the industry without a radical change in complete chip architecture. Advancement goes in increment amounts not by leaps and bounds unless they rewrite the entire foundation of GPU structure.

your posts got a little more bias since your purchase decision.

 

[razor1]

your posts got a little more bias since your purchase decision.

I already know most of the specs of the r520 which I stated a while back, Even on Rage3d I mentioned there was a 16x2 pipeline design rumor, which coincidentally came out to more like a 16x3 design for the r580. It will be a disappointment for you if you are expecting something that over performs by great margins, anything available today. No doubt its a fast card but don't expect it to be some crazy green eyed monster killer. It won't happen.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

1. I was correct, your where wrong = I.Q. prize goes to me
2. Your not the "boss" of these forum, if you don't like what I have to say, due to your nag over making yourself looking stupid in an old thread, then put me on ignore...

Sigh....Cant you just respect other people for once?
I dont mean to sound harsh but he just asked for something painfully simple and needed on todays message boards. I cant wait for R520 come out.

 

[pandora's box]

I already know most of the specs of the r520 which I stated a while back, Even on Rage3d I mentioned there was a 16x2 pipeline design rumor, which coincidentally came out to more like a 16x3 design for the r580. It will be a disappointment for you if you are expecting something that over performs by great margins, anything available today. No doubt its a fast card but don't expect it to be some crazy green eyed monster killer. It won't happen.

you work for ati then im assuming?

 

[razor1]

no just a developer. I know people that have this card yes, personally seen this card yes, never personally tested this card myself. And most of the information I get is all basic information, nothing too specific since they can't break their NDA's so I have to analyze what I'm told, some of the information is accurate, some of it I analyze wrong, like the unified pipes at B3D I mentioned.

 

[Shifra]

all we are getting is raw specs, has been that way for awhile. Even the guesses, raw specs. Until the card is actually put to work, i do not think you or anyone else can procaim it to be one way or another. And from what i understand with the full support of FP16/24/32 and possibly 10, the pipeline operation is also changed. I think you are being far too bold in trying to link this core to any R3 or R400 series. I would not put them in the same leagues regaurdless of specs or performance because of all that has changed within the core itself.

edit-typo

 

[razor1]

Well if you looked at the numbers more logically instead of spewing out your own inane views, and also venture over to B3D, everyone there who have some insider info all believe this.

Obviously you seem to have a mental block when it comes to logical thinking, since so far everything you have mentioned has no logic behind it.

Instead of calling someone biased might want to look at the numbers more carefully.

Also make sure you get your code names right

Well so far it does seem to be in the same league of performance of the r420's per clock thats what the numbers point to. Which is not a concern if the clocks are high enough, but thats not a good way to go. What your saying is its great to have a 600 mhz core, since they probably can get more pipes (or alu's and tmu's) in and keep the same mhz, That doesn't happen, it either gets wider and less mhz, or just more mhz. Can't do both at the same time, well it is possible but will take a lot more work (spins).

 

[Shifra]

Well if you looked at the numbers more logically instead of spewing out your own inane views, and also venture over to B3D, everyone there who have some insider info all believe this.

Obviously you seem to have a mental block when it comes to logical thinking, since so far everything you have mentioned has no logic behind it.

Instead of calling someone biased might want to look at the numbers more carefully.

Also make sure you get your code names right

Well so far it does seem to be in the same league of performance of the r420's per clock thats what the numbers point to. Which is not a concern if the clocks are high enough, but thats not a good way to go.

have an account at B3D, have so for 2 years and i frequent there occasionally for info, not usually as fast update wise if you want to get into a conversation though, so.

I am being honost, its not a mental block. We have seen what Nvidia has done. Now its time for ATI, i simply think you are being overly confident in Nvidia being in the lead not only in research and development but future products as well as performance.

Once again, i do not think raw specs, known or unknown, allow you or anyone else to snap judgement to over all performance. Nothing insane about optimism. The most insane thing i'v said is they may make a card with the abilities to take over the lead this year and into next year, you taking that as "insane" again shows you have become more bias. I had enjoyed reading your posts too...

Every post saying ATI does this or that better, or coming out with this down the line, is usually met by a skepticle Nvidia related counter where Nvidia becomes the victor..i dont think im imagining things, this is what your overall view has been for the last week or so.

I am simply saying you need to be more optimistic. We have seen Nvidia, so enough of "well Nvidia might do this", they did what they were going to do, time for ATI.

 

[razor1]

have an account at B3D, have so for 2 years and i frequent there occasionally for info, not usually as fast update wise if you want to get into a conversation though, so.

I am being honost, its not a mental block. We have seen what Nvidia has done. Now its time for ATI, i simply think you are being overly confident in Nvidia being in the lead not only in research and development but future products as well as performance.

Once again, i do not think raw specs, known or unknown, allow you or anyone else to snap judgement to over all performance. Nothing insane about optimism. The most insane thing i'v said is they may make a card with the abilities to take over the lead this year and into next year, you taking that as "insane" again shows you have become more bias. I had enjoyed reading your posts too...

Every post saying ATI does this or that better, or coming out with this down the line, is usually met by a skepticle Nvidia related counter where Nvidia becomes the victor..i dont think im imagining things, this is what your overall view has been for the last week or so.

I am simply saying you need to be more optimistic. We have seen Nvidia, so enough of "well Nvidia might do this", they did what they were going to do, time for ATI.

I didn't say insane I said inane . Also noone really expected the g70 to have improved shader performance over the nv 40's. ATi probably didn't know that either. This is what the final up the clocks is all about. ATi presumed that 1.3 times the shader performance would have been enough to counter an increased pipeline version of the nv40. Which it would have been. And we know that ATi's pipelines are 1.3 times that of the r420 because they said it.

You are conjuring up ficticious ideas to support your incorrect hyposthesis. You aren't taking the information that is out there and seeing what the possiblities might lead you to then you shouldn't be trying to discuss this. Go ahead and post a topic at B3D and see what they say. I don't need to get involved with that, there is no need to, they will just say what I've been saying verbatim.

Its good to be optimistic, but you're being over optimisitc and trying to prove that ATi has something great which they have a good product and will be competitive but not something mind blowing like the 9700.