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$800 Complete Gaming System, Feedback wanted

B

blakangus

n00b
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
40
Hey just getting ready to put a build together for college/gaming this is what I have so far:
Processor:Athlon X2 6000+ 2mb cache http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130380
Video Card: EVGA 9800GT 512MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130380 Processor/Video Combo: $197
Mobo: Foxconn 780G mAtx : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186141 - $78
RAM : 2x1GB G.Skill DDR2800 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098 - $38
PSU - Earthwatts 650W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015 $65
HDD: Deskstar 320GB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145129 - $50
Lite-On DVD Burner - $21
Vista Business (required for school) - $140
19" Acer Widescreen LCD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009139 - $135
Rosewill Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147037 - $55

Total with Shipping: $777.88 shipped
If anyone has suggestions to improve things for the same price, that would be great. I need something for school, but also for some gaming, mostly the current crop of FPS and Diablo 3/Starcraft 2. Im not too terribly stressed about maxing all settings, since my current rig is a Turion notebook with 512mb ram and Xpress200 IGP.
 
Couldn't you get Vista Business through your school?

How much, at most, are you willing to spend on this build?
 
I most certainly would not go with AMD, and you will probably get many debates about that topic. Is there a specific reason why you're choosing AMD over Intel?
 
No, unfortunately my school (Gettysburg College) is unmoving in their stance that we must all provide our own copies of either Vista Business/Ultimate or XP Pro. No Home/Media Center versions of Windows are allowed to connect to the network (I tried with XP Home) and they refuse to upgrade your system (tried that too). I am looking to spend less than $825
 
PC_User said:
I most certainly would not go with AMD, and you will probably get many debates about that topic. Is there a specific reason why you're choosing AMD over Intel?
Click to expand...

Mostly due to price, a 3.0ghz dual core would be hard to find for that price if going with Intel. From what I saw on performance charts, it looked like a better choice but I am totally open to suggestions.
 
Why not get AMD? They're good for the price... Otherwise try to fit an E8400 into that budget.
 
If you want to go AMD, get a motherboard with an SB 750 southbridge, as it'll get you a better OC. Check out these combos: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SubCategory=22&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

I'd go with the Phenom 9850 Black Edition combo for $250, or the Athlon X2 5400+ Black Edition combo for $156. The X2 Black Edition will perform better than your 6000+ for cheaper when OCed.

That 19" monitor has a relatively low resolution, so I might consider just getting a solid 4670 card. This performs on par with the nvidia 9600 series, and holds its own vs more expensive cards at lower resolutions. The thing is only $65 and comes with a free game.. not bad! You can even run crossfire later with that mobo^^

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127383

Also, a $50 Radeon 3850 would work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131096

One last thing: 2Gb of ram will NOT last you. Get a 4Gb kit and never look back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&N=2010170147 1052315794&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Everything else looks OK

How would I do it?
Phenom 9850 and SB750 mobo: $250
Radeon 4670: $65
4Gb ram: ~$50
Your PSU: $65
DVDRW: $21
HDD: $50
Monitor: $135
Case: $55
Windows: $140

Total: $831 (or $737 with the Athlon X2 cpu and mobo combo)
 
Though silent-circuit is correct, all of the good NewEgg deals are for AMD combos. Well, most of them....

The following is an Intel-based build for comparison's sake.

$52 - Antec Three Hundred (free shipping)
$10 - Two Masscool 120mm case fans (for Three Hundred)
$155 - EVGA 9800GT & Antec EA500 500W PSU bundle
$85 - Intel E5200 (free shipping)
$84 - MSI P43 Neo3-F
$60 - G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 (free shipping)
$65 - Western Digital 500GB SATA300 HDD (free shipping)
$22 - Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S-0B SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
$140 - Vista Business (from first post)
$135 - Acer V193W b monitor (from first post)
=====
$808 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

With the buffer that I gained from making a few parts swaps, I doubled the amount of RAM and increased the storage capacity of the hard drive. (If shipping costs eat into your budget limit, you could go back to the same RAM and HDD that you had earlier.)
 
ordovician said:
If you want to go AMD, get a motherboard with an SB 750 southbridge, as it'll get you a better OC. Check out these combos: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SubCategory=22&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

I'd go with the Phenom 9850 Black Edition combo for $250, or the Athlon X2 5400+ Black Edition combo for $156. The X2 Black Edition will perform better than your 6000+ for cheaper when OCed.

That 19" monitor has a relatively low resolution, so I might consider just getting a solid 4670 card. This performs on par with the nvidia 9600 series, and holds its own vs more expensive cards at lower resolutions. The thing is only $65 and comes with a free game.. not bad! You can even run crossfire later with that mobo^^

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127383

Also, a $50 Radeon 3850 would work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131096

One last thing: 2Gb of ram will NOT last you. Get a 4Gb kit and never look back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&N=2010170147 1052315794&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Everything else looks OK

How would I do it?
Phenom 9850 and SB750 mobo: $250
Radeon 4670: $65
4Gb ram: ~$50
Your PSU: $65
DVDRW: $21
HDD: $50
Monitor: $135
Case: $55
Windows: $140

Total: $831 (or $737 with the Athlon X2 cpu and mobo combo)
Click to expand...

Nice with still 60 dollars left going with the Athlon X2 u can upgrade the video card maybe to a 9800gt.
 
Le037 said:
Nice with still 60 dollars left going with the Athlon X2 u can upgrade the video card maybe to a 9800gt.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't pair an nVidia card with that mobo, because SLI won't work with it, only crossifre. Even if you'll never run a dual card configuration, it's hardly wise to "shoot yourself in the foot" so to say. Grab a 4850 for $130-140 instead.
 
tiraides said:
Though silent-circuit is correct, all of the good NewEgg deals are for AMD combos. Well, most of them....

The following is an Intel-based build for comparison's sake.

$52 - Antec Three Hundred (free shipping)
$10 - Two Masscool 120mm case fans (for Three Hundred)
$155 - EVGA 9800GT & Antec EA500 500W PSU bundle
$85 - Intel E5200 (free shipping)
$84 - MSI P43 Neo3-F
$60 - G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 (free shipping)
$65 - Western Digital 500GB SATA300 HDD (free shipping)
$22 - Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S-0B SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
$140 - Vista Business (from first post)
$135 - Acer V193W b monitor (from first post)
=====
$808 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

With the buffer that I gained from making a few parts swaps, I doubled the amount of RAM and increased the storage capacity of the hard drive. (If shipping costs eat into your budget limit, you could go back to the same RAM and HDD that you had earlier.)
Click to expand...

Nice call with the Antec Three hundred, much better than that Rosewill. I will say that I have that Hitachi hard drive, and for $50 you can't go wrong. It's FAST.
 
ordovician said:
I wouldn't pair an nVidia card with that mobo, because SLI won't work with it, only crossifre. Even if you'll never run a dual card configuration, it's hardly wise to "shoot yourself in the foot" so to say. Grab a 4850 for $130-140 instead.
Click to expand...

No problem if you can find one for less than $160.
 
ordovician said:
I wouldn't pair an nVidia card with that mobo, because SLI won't work with it, only crossifre. Even if you'll never run a dual card configuration, it's hardly wise to "shoot yourself in the foot" so to say. Grab a 4850 for $130-140 instead.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but if there is no chance of the OP requiring CrossFire (or SLI for that matter), he shouldn't limit himself as to which video card he should get.

With the monitor the OP has in mind, not to mention the budget limit, I don't see any reason to have CrossFire (or SLI) as even an option.
 
tiraides said:
I understand what you're saying, but if there is no chance of the OP requiring CrossFire (or SLI for that matter), he shouldn't limit himself as to which video card he should get.

With the monitor the OP has in mind, not to mention the budget limit, I don't see any reason to have CrossFire (or SLI) as even an option.
Click to expand...

To each his own I guess. I just feel like the 9/8800GT is overpriced right now. If I were building a new computer, I'd want a cheap 3850 ($50), 4670 ($65), or 3870 ($69).. at 1440x900 their performance will be indistinguishable from a $115 9800GT. A 4850 allows you to run higher settings than the 9800GT, which may be worth it to some people.
 
The fact that the OP mentioned playing FPS, and the 9800GT/EA500 bundle I was able to find, was why I chose the 9800GT. Actually, with some of today's games (like, say, Crysis) most of the sub-$100 cards, save for the 9600GT and the HD4670, don't have enough power to run everything (with high visual settings and AA/AF activated).
 
I hear ya... I'm just of the opinion that a 4670 (with ability to xfire) and the 650 watt PSU is more future proof than a 9800GT and 500watt.

The 4670 uses MUCH less power, performs close to the 9800GT at 1440x900, is a shorter card that requires no power connection, comes with a game, and costs $45 less. Hell, two 4670's actually consume about equal power as a single 9800GT, and outperform it (they even slightly outdo the 4850), for only $20 more.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1590/17/sapphire_radeon_hd_4670_in_crossfire/index.html
 
ordovician said:
I hear ya... I'm just of the opinion that a 4670 (with ability to xfire) and the 650 watt PSU is more future proof than a 9800GT and 500watt.

The 4670 uses MUCH less power, performs close to the 9800GT at 1440x900, is a shorter card that requires no power connection, and costs $45 less. Hell, two 4670's actually consume about equal power as a single 9800GT, and outperform it (they even slightly outdo the 4850), for only $20 more.
Click to expand...

You're outnumbered. Outvoted. Outgunned.

Multi-GPU rigs with mid to low end cards are always a bad idea. Always.
 
silent-circuit said:
You're outnumbered. Outvoted. Outgunned.

Multi-GPU rigs with mid to low end cards are always a bad idea. Always.
Click to expand...

Insults and sweeping generalizations aside, give me one reason why a dual 4670 rig would be worse than a single 9800GT at 1440x900.
 
I was gonna just about to call shits on you for recommending a 4670 crossfire > a 9800GT but digging into the subject has me siding with you. had a whole thing about price to performance, price itself and performance itself ready but I was defeated by the numbers.
 
lowteckh said:
I was gonna just about to call shits on you for recommending a 4670 crossfire > a 9800GT but digging into the subject has me siding with you. had a whole thing about price to performance, price itself and performance itself ready but I was defeated by the numbers.
Click to expand...

I'm actually really curious about this now. Of course it all depends on the games you play and everything, but it is interesting to see how well they do in crossfire.

*waves to Kyle*

Hey, wanna do some testing? How does a 2x4670 compare to a single 9800GT at low resolutions?? Dual 4670's appear to scale anomalously well, and not use much power at all (comparable to a single 4850)... which kind of defeats most anti-dual card arguments.

I'm guessing dual 4670's would not handle as high resolution textures as the 9800GT, but would pull ahead with AA/AF, and probably with things like bloom enabled due to the more efficient (aka godly) steam processors in the 4xxx series. *shrugs*

So I'm asking myself: If you gave me a 650 watt power supply over a 500 watt, and gave me a free game, but told me I had to give up my 9800GT in exchange for two 4670's, would I take it? Hmm.. tempting, but it'd be interesting to see them side by side.
 
You can say that for anything/everything. Current prices, current build. I'm not gonna get into speculation for this one.
 
Wow, thank you all for the ideas and suggestions, I definately reworked the build considerably (Antec Case, 4GB Ram) and now it just comes down to my decision to go Phenom, X2, or Intel and which corresponding GPU to select. Now I have so many more options, I did not realize the extent of the combo deals.

Luke
 
 
If you're OC'ing, definitely go with an Intel chip -- they are faster, clock for clock, run cooler, and have way more OC headroom than the AMD chips.
 
ordovician said:
silent-circuit said:
You're outnumbered. Outvoted. Outgunned.

Multi-GPU rigs with mid to low end cards are always a bad idea. Always.
Click to expand...
Insults and sweeping generalizations aside, give me one reason why a dual 4670 rig would be worse than a single 9800GT at 1440x900.
Click to expand...

Here's the long story short on the SLI/CF vs. single card debate: You really don't see a benefit with a multi-card setup unless you're dealing with high resolutions (of at least 1920x1080).

While a multi-card setup may be better (and, in some cases, cheaper) than a single card, the single card offers you convenience. You're not tied to a particular brand or model, you don't have to configure everything to handle a single-card setup (contrary to popular belief, CrossFire/SLI isn't Plug & Play), and if you ever feel like your system is lagging in games, you could easily replace the single card for a newer, better model.

(A side tangent: Power output is a moot point in this debate. If you've done your homework beforehand, you would have ensured that the power supply you chose, regardless of what you ended up choosing, would have enough power for your entire system, with a little extra headroom for future upgrades. It may be important if you're trying to build an a low-wattage or a quiet/silent build, but it's not really a consideration for a gaming machine.)

Waiting for the second card to come down in price is generally a bad idea. Especially with video cards, which have the fastest depreciation rate over any other computer component. There is often a new series of high-end cards every four to eight months. (Remember that around this time last year, the 8800GTX was considered the best card around.) By the time the second card does come down in price, a newer, better video card will occupy its former price point, creating another dilemma: Should you still pursue the multi-card setup, to prolong yet another upgrade in a year's time, or should you get a better video card that could last at least year or two?

And the high resolutions part? Until you reach a 1920x1080 (or greater) resolution, you could easily find a single card that can compete with, or is superior to, a multi-card setup. But the majority of the cards on the market, on their own, can't handle one of today's games at that high of a resolution with high visual settings, AA, and AF activated.

Again, I'm not arguing that SLI or CrossFire isn't better than a single card; all I'm saying is that it's not a necessity. (I wouldn't have chosen the 9800GT or the EA500 PSU otherwise, unless I was able to get them with the bundle deal.)

blakangus said:
Wow, thank you all for the ideas and suggestions, I definately reworked the build considerably (Antec Case, 4GB Ram) and now it just comes down to my decision to go Phenom, X2, or Intel and which corresponding GPU to select. Now I have so many more options, I did not realize the extent of the combo deals.

Luke
Click to expand...

So what does your build look like now?
 
tiraides said:
Here's the long story short on the SLI/CF vs. single card debate: You really don't see a benefit with a multi-card setup unless you're dealing with high resolutions (of at least 1920x1080).
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. My dual 8800GT setup is running at 1680x1050 and the difference between SLI and single card is night and day. Enabling SLI gives me free 4X AA and 16X AF, and even allows me to crank higher texture settings in some games.

While a multi-card setup may be better (and, in some cases, cheaper) than a single card, the single card offers you convenience.
Click to expand...

I fail to see how putting a single 9800GT in a 790GX motherboard is any more convenient than using two 4670's. If anything the dual cards are more convenient, because you can later use them in TWO rigs you may wish to build later.

You're not tied to a particular brand or model, you don't have to configure everything to handle a single-card setup (contrary to popular belief, CrossFire/SLI isn't Plug & Play),
Click to expand...

You need to configure everything and crossfire isn't plug and play? Not sure what you mean by that....

and if you ever feel like your system is lagging in games, you could easily replace the single card for a newer, better model.
Click to expand...

You can replace two 4670's for a newer, better model just as easily as a 9800GT.

(A side tangent: Power output is a moot point in this debate. If you've done your homework beforehand, you would have ensured that the power supply you chose, regardless of what you ended up choosing, would have enough power for your entire system, with a little extra headroom for future upgrades. It may be important if you're trying to build an a low-wattage or a quiet/silent build, but it's not really a consideration for a gaming machine.)
Click to expand...

So why use that small 500 watt power supply with the 9800GT? That's hardly giving yourself "headroom."

Waiting for the second card to come down in price is generally a bad idea. Especially with video cards, which have the fastest depreciation rate over any other computer component. There is often a new series of high-end cards every four to eight months. (Remember that around this time last year, the 8800GTX was considered the best card around.) By the time the second card does come down in price, a newer, better video card will occupy its former price point, creating another dilemma: Should you still pursue the multi-card setup, to prolong yet another upgrade in a year's time, or should you get a better video card that could last at least year or two?
Click to expand...

This is an issue of personal preference. I bought an 8800GT last year for $260. I just slipped in another used 8800GT recently for $70. Now, I'm getting 4870-class performance for only $70.

Contrast that with selling my original 8800GT for ~$90 and picking up a $220 4870, and I'm out $130. To me, the choice was clear, and I don't have to deal with trying to sell my 8800GT, AND I have two 8800GTs for use in later builds. Plus, two cards retain base value better than one card. (Every card, regardless of how old it is, carries SOME value just due to the fact that it can give a computer a display. Today, 2x 7600GT's could sell for 2x 25 = $50, as opposed to a 7900GS, which may sell for only $40... just my random thoughts...)

And the high resolutions part? Until you reach a 1920x1080 (or greater) resolution, you could easily find a single card that can compete with, or is superior to, a multi-card setup. But the majority of the cards on the market, on their own, can't handle one of today's games at that high of a resolution with high visual settings, AA, and AF activated
Click to expand...
.

Yes and no, depends on the game.

Again, I'm not arguing that SLI or CrossFire isn't better than a single card; all I'm saying is that it's not a necessity. (I wouldn't have chosen the 9800GT or the EA500 PSU otherwise, unless I was able to get them with the bundle deal.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm really being the devil's advocate here. I don't mean to come off as argumentative. I'd just rather have a 650 watt PSU.
 
The price of 2 4670 = 1 4850, the price of 1 9800GT < 2 4670s.

You need to be comparing apples to apples.
 
lowteckh said:
The price of 2 4670 = 1 4850, the price of 1 9800GT < 2 4670s.

You need to be comparing apples to apples.
Click to expand...

The discussion involved getting a 650 watt PSU with the 4670s, or a 500 watt with the 9800GT. I was actually not advocating buying two 4670's to begin with, just mentioning that 2 of them yields 4850-like performance.
 
If your argument is 1 4670 + 650 PSU, then.. yea you're on your own.
 
I need something for school, but also for some gaming, mostly the current crop of FPS and Diablo 3/Starcraft 2. Im not too terribly stressed about maxing all settings
Click to expand...

A better PSU and a cheaper video card is better for someone who doesn't care about maxing settings, especially when the highest supported resolution is 1440x900.
 
ordovician said:
A better PSU and a cheaper video card is better for someone who doesn't care about maxing settings, especially when the highest supported resolution is 1440x900.
Click to expand...

The EA500D and EA650D are made by the same company: Delta. I wouldn't be surprised that EA500D has the same internals as the EA650D. So the EA650D isn't that much better than the EA500D besides the higher wattage. I mean, what he would need the higher wattage for? Since the OP doesn't sound like the type to replace his video card often, the EA500D + 9800GT for $155 is a good deal since he gets faster performance up front yet still have a good PSU with enough headroom for many future upgrades.
 
You are arguing to a brick wall. Look above and you'll see his stance is unwavering. Let him fight his battles, the OP and others should have enough perspective already to decide for themselves and not have others force/push their ideas onto them.
 
Like I said, I'm playing Devil's advocate. The 9800GT is a fine card (I have two). I just think a lot of people on here are like, "IF ITS NOT INTEL/NVIDIA ITS CRAP LOLZ" and "CROSSFIRE/SLI IS ALWAYS WORSE THAN SINGLE CARD ALWAYS NOOOOOOB"

I just want people to step back and look at things in a new light once in a while.
 
ordovician said:
"IF ITS NOT INTEL/NVIDIA ITS CRAP LOLZ" and "CROSSFIRE/SLI IS ALWAYS WORSE THAN SINGLE CARD ALWAYS NOOOOOOB"
Click to expand...

None of us ever said this. Here's what we've said, consistently:

If you're willing to OC and spend at least $80 on your CPU Intel is a better buy because the C2D series is faster than an X2 and comparable to a Phenom clock for clock and has far more OCing headroom than any of the AMD chips at this time. If your budget is such that you can't afford a $80 CPU, AMD is a valid option.

CrossfireX / SLI is a horrible upgrade path. Buy one now, buy one later only adds complexity and a failure point (both hardware and software-wise, since multi-GPU doesn't always work -- as the owner of a SLI setup I'm all too aware of this -- and more cards mean more heat and more things to go wrong) if a single card is enough for today. Two cards are also a lot more difficult to sell than one. When there is no single card that will handle your resolutions / settings, multi-GPU is your best, and really only, option. As a result, mutli-GPU setups with anything less than a high end (at the moment, GTX 260 / 4870 HD and better) card really don't make sense for 99.99%+ of those wanting gaming machines.

The stance is so popular not because we're all sheeple or lemmings, or because we trample the non-believers, but because we've each weighed the pros and cons and worked through the logic on our own and come to roughly the same conclusion. This was a fairly common argument on these forums roughly a year ago, but now? Not so much. There's a reason for that; reason, primarily.
 
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