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Blu-Ray vs Streaming

S

sleepeeg3

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
5,795
Found this video fascinating. Few takeaways:
  • General: Many 4K movies may actually be digital upscales of 2K digital intermediates
  • Video quality: Most streaming services limit you to around 1/4 of the bitrate of Blu-Ray - you may only see 35% of the colors of the original movie, due to the compression used (Rec 709). 4K Blu-Ray will retain much more of this.
  • Audio quality: Blu-ray audio can deliver several megabits per second (TrueHD often around 3–6 Mbps, DTS-HD Master Audio even higher), whereas streaming audio usually operates in the range of a few hundred kilobits per second. This means Blu-ray carries several times more audio data. More data results in fewer compression artifacts, finer detail, clearer high frequencies, and more accurate low-end reproduction.
  • Accessibility: Major films are scattered across different streaming services and may disappear forever. Physical copies are yours forever.
Then of course there are the extras and alternate versions that only exist on physical media.
 
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Yeah, but did you watch that video on a disc?

On disc content is typically better (although some old dvds are garbage), but sometimes streaming is more convenient; especially if you've got a good connection and you've wired your streaming thing.
 
Sort of known information, Streaming companies spend boatloads on bandwidth and such, so they will compress the crap where ever possible to assure "smoother" experience. Most people just see "4k" and that is all they care about, they do not understand bitrate and how that changes overall quality.

Now take into account, the quality of most people's TVs, how many have decent TVs or home theater like setups where they would even notice said quality differences?

It was like people who would buy high end devices and then play mp3's on them and talk about how epic the quality of the content was!
 
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apparently i watched that, well most of it, a couple weeks ago. kinda a "no shit" situation though.

i just started buying again, getting tired of the streaming bs. have spent a few hundred (~700😕) canuckistani pesos since Nov...
one thing i dont like that i forgot about was the player noise.
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toast0 said:
Yeah, but did you watch that video on a disc?
Click to expand...
Tbf one doesn't have to even when owning physical. I don't listen to my CDs on a CD player, I rip them (even in the 90s I did this).

At least with CDs though there are lossless music stores online that offer the same fidelity so one can skip physical media if they care to. Games too. Imagine if you got inferior game graphics or audio by buying online.

The only alternative for disc-quality films is the ludicrously pricey Kaleidescape (and they don't even host the same range), so most are stuck with streaming-tier encodes and lack of ability to resell if buying online vs physical. Not everyone cares about (or can notice) the best experience though.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Sort of known information, Streaming companies spend boatloads on bandwidth and such, so they will compress the crap where ever possible to assure "smoother" experience. Most people just see "4k" and that is all they care about, they do not understand bitrate and how that changes overall quality.

Now take into account, the quality of most people's TVs, how many have decent TVs or home theater like setups where they would even notice said quality differences?

It was like people who would buy high end devices and then play mp3's on them and talk about how epic the quality of the content was!
Click to expand...

Storage is expensive for them too - the don't keep 1 file then encode out on the fly to you like with a Plex server or something - they have multiple resolutions + bitrates at various resolutions pre-encoded and broken into chunks each, that they then serve to you in various/adequate segments based on real time streaming ability/connection
 
pendragon1 said:
even with 60-80+GB "remux" rips i notice a difference from disc...
Click to expand...

remux is 1:1 from disc otherwise it's not a remux it's an encode (aside from the fact the disc is technically an encode and not lossless) - it was just (re) muxed from the disc format/container to whatever end result container
 
Okatis said:
Could you clarify? Do you mean you've compared Kaleidescape to equivalent UHD BD?
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lol no im not rich enough for kaleidascape. high GB linux isos that are supposed to be 1:1 are called a "remux"

kram182 said:
remux is 1:1 from disc otherwise it's not a remux it's an encode (aside from the fact the disc is technically an encode and not lossless) - it was just (re) muxed from the disc format/container to whatever end result container
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idk, whatever. they are labeled "remux" they are huge but they are still in a mkv. physical looks and sounds better imo.

and yes its for stuff i own.
 
pendragon1 said:
lol no im not rich enough for kaleidascape. high GB linux isos that are supposed to be 1:1 are called a "remux"


idk, whatever. they are labeled "remux" they are huge but they are still in a mkv. physical looks and sounds better imo.

and yes its for stuff i own.
Click to expand...

right I'm just saying if it's labeled 'remux' then it is (should be, people lie) untouched from the disc - and HYBRID remux means they took the audio track or whatever from the 1080p Blu-ray and left it untouched and muxed it in with the 2160p Blu-ray or something, because the 1080p one might have had a better audio track/mixing than the 4K or something like that (also there's Dolby Vision 'Hybrid' remux which is turning DV profile 7 to DV profile 8 for broader playback compatibility - which technically isn't a remux anymore as an entire actual video steam is lost but whatever none of this is 'official' on the high seas anyway)
 
pendragon1 said:
physical looks and sounds better imo.
Click to expand...
could be your bluray player in bluray mode doing something ?

sleepeeg3 said:
Video quality: Most streaming services limit you to around 1/4 of the bitrate of Blu-Ray
Click to expand...
bitrate is one element, latest av1 can do more with less bandwith (if you have an device with hardware support) and you can peak much higher when a scene demands it without a max read spead of a physical medium (or not an issue for the ssd kaleidescape use).
 
LukeTbk said:
could be your bluray player in bluray mode doing something ?
Click to expand...
If some are using a local server that is transcoding the file when watched, like Plex does, or even some wireless streaming device that transcodes anything above a certain threshold on the fly, it could explain the difference.

Unless it's something related to say HDR tonemapping where the video player used isn't handling it the same as the disc player.
 
Okatis said:
If some are using a local server that is transcoding the file when watched, like Plex does, or even some wireless streaming device that transcodes anything above a certain threshold on the fly, it could explain the difference.

Unless it's something related to say HDR tonemapping where the video player used isn't handling it the same as the disc player.
Click to expand...

Disc player could also be applying sharpening/contrast enhancement etc or vice versa
 
pendragon1 said:
its my ps5 and i have all that off. neither PC or it do DV so it shouldnt be that either...
Click to expand...
ps5 lack dolby vision or hdr10+ support, your gpu/ mpc black could have it (MPC or other player setting could be in play), maybe you do not like that look for movie that has it and prefer regular hdr10.

ps5 negotiation of the color range and signal format with the TV could be better than the PC, because it is the exact same data being played.
 
pendragon1 said:
its my ps5 and i have all that off. neither PC or it do DV so it shouldnt be that either...
🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

If you're watching HDR10 only and not Dolby Vision, you shut your mouth about 'it looks better' :p

When watching on a 1000+ nit display the differences are less noticeable, but Dolby Vision/HDR10 goes up to 4000 10000 nits, and even that aside, at any brightness, Dolby Vision has better/additional effects/metadata features.
 
LukeTbk said:
ps5 lack dolby vision
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thats what i said...

kram182 said:
If you're watching HDR10 only and not Dolby Vision, you shut your mouth about 'it looks better' :p

When watching on a 1000+ nit display the differences are less noticeable, but Dolby Vision/HDR10 goes up to 4000 10000 nits, and even that aside, at any brightness, Dolby Vision has better/additional effects/metadata features.
Click to expand...
yeah i wished theyd hurry up with adding DV. its supposedly been promised for a while...



pc playback only does HDR10 too, or at least thats all that is indicated...
my tv is close to 1500 nit.(rated at 1000, tests way higher, hisense)
so they are basically 1:1 other than the player. i have the settings matched everywhere i can or just off altogether.
discs look and sound better.
 
I'm a disc guy, always have been.
I Have the 1st 4K disc player(Samsung - 1st 1 was junk/replaced), and an Oppo203(didn't know they were going out of business), and a Panny(not the 820, A 420 or some shit).
I have a ton of cds as well as DVDS/BR/4K Discs

I DO listen to Pandora once in awhile when I'm lazy, but I don't stream video unless forced to do so.

I was actually an HD-DVD Guy, so I have a bunch of those as well, with an LG 200/Dual Slow ass player, as well as a dedicated HD-A2 player.
HD-A1 looked awesome, but I had to bring it in twice to get fixed about 30 miles away, it was slow as fuck..A2 is much faster, but not anywhere near as fancy...I couldn't afford an AX1, But I think it was almost the same from what I read back then
I'll be Disc until I'm gone for 90+ % .
 
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I was team HD-DVD as well. Some studios allowed you to switch them out for blu rays later but I liked HD-DVD better.
 
I've had to clean the lenses of the A1, the A2,(this is my 2nd A2) and the LG BH200 Dual Format player.
Glad I had already done that on cd players over the years prior.
Takes longer to take them apart than to clean them.

Haven't had to do it on the 3 BD only players...yet ..😆
 
kram182 said:
If you're watching HDR10 only and not Dolby Vision, you shut your mouth about 'it looks better' :p

When watching on a 1000+ nit display the differences are less noticeable, but Dolby Vision/HDR10 goes up to 4000 10000 nits, and even that aside, at any brightness, Dolby Vision has better/additional effects/metadata features.
Click to expand...
DV is much better than HDR10.

HDFury sells EDID spoofing devices, which allow player led Low Latency DV to work. Sony developed LLDV. Works on my x800m2. Don't know what other players can do LLDV.

So although no projector supports DV, you can tell the Blu ray player that the projector is a DV TV with 150 nits etc, and it will do DV. There's a lot of settings that need to be dialed in.

What's interesting to me is I can force DV on old blurays. Color is better.

I have tested streaming against 4k discs, as well as Blu ray. And I agree with everything everyone has said here. Streaming compresses the color significantly. Streaming noticeably compressed the audio.

But not all 4k releases are created equal. I have two copies of bridge over the river Kwai. The first release was dogshit. The hdr, color grading was awful, totally blown out. Then they redid it like three years later, looks great now.

There are some releases like prometheus, which are upscaled from 1080p. The prequels are another example, where no film copy exists. So just beware that some films are upscales, but even so the 4k version may still be an improvement over the blu ray,

On the other end, they went all out on Ben Hur 4k fyi. It is top of the line release. They worked hard on this one. Best I've seen so far.

Jaws. Lawrence. Road warrior. All look very good. Even tremors looks good too.

Some people are pissed at how Aliens and terminator look in 4k. DNR. Terminator 2 gets a lot of hate too. But they're all a serious improvement over the Blu ray.

But 4k discs are an expensive hobby. Sales used to be better when Bestbuy was still in the game. Honestly, as long as the color grading is good, regular BR looks good even at 120 inches. Not just acceptable, but good. Hell, we've even ran Blu rays, dvds and VHS at my buddies theater. And Blu ray looks just fine stretched to 60ish feet. Dvd and VHS, not so much.
 
RedCharles9001 said:
DV is much better than HDR10.

HDFury sells EDID spoofing devices, which allow player led Low Latency DV to work. Sony developed LLDV. Works on my x800m2. Don't know what other players can do LLDV.

So although no projector supports DV, you can tell the Blu ray player that the projector is a DV TV with 150 nits etc, and it will do DV. There's a lot of settings that need to be dialed in.

What's interesting to me is I can force DV on old blurays. Color is better.

I have tested streaming against 4k discs, as well as Blu ray. And I agree with everything everyone has said here. Streaming compresses the color significantly. Streaming noticeably compressed the audio.

But not all 4k releases are created equal. I have two copies of bridge over the river Kwai. The first release was dogshit. The hdr, color grading was awful, totally blown out. Then they redid it like three years later, looks great now.

There are some releases like prometheus, which are upscaled from 1080p. The prequels are another example, where no film copy exists. So just beware that some films are upscales, but even so the 4k version may still be an improvement over the blu ray,

On the other end, they went all out on Ben Hur 4k fyi. It is top of the line release. They worked hard on this one. Best I've seen so far.

Jaws. Lawrence. Road warrior. All look very good. Even tremors looks good too.

Some people are pissed at how Aliens and terminator look in 4k. DNR. Terminator 2 gets a lot of hate too. But they're all a serious improvement over the Blu ray.

But 4k discs are an expensive hobby. Sales used to be better when Bestbuy was still in the game. Honestly, as long as the color grading is good, regular BR looks good even at 120 inches. Not just acceptable, but good. Hell, we've even ran Blu rays, dvds and VHS at my buddies theater. And Blu ray looks just fine stretched to 60ish feet. Dvd and VHS, not so much.
Click to expand...

Terminator 2 does look like ass though - mainly because they used the 3D version base as the base for the UHD so the DNR is dialed up to 11 and everyone looks waxy with oversharpening halos etc. That + the fact it wasn't the Director's Cut - I don't even have the 4K UHD of Terminator 2 in my Plex 😤 the Aliens one is alright/acceptable -process matured a lot and not as overdone, for some scenes just for second you can catch the waxy/DNR look - but far in-between and it moreso looks much better than it doesn't
 
RedCharles9001 said:
I didn't know they sourced it from the 3d version. How bizarre. I wonder why they did that.
Click to expand...

Cut corners/cost - both were coming out around the same time

for-money.gif


Supposed to be a new 'proper' 4K transfer coming out this year for 35th anniversary - but unless it's the Director's Cut I'm still not adding it to my Plex I don't care if Cameron likes the Theatrical more (I think he just says whatever at times for the same reasons above - same reason he hyped making 45 Avatar movies, now laments having to make 45 Avatar movies)
 
StevenJamesBorchard said:
I hope someone else mentioned it already, but when you have a physical copy, original; you get to see how it was before being cut up and modified to fit the political or sensationalism moment of the time period/culture.
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depends when it was bought/released. see the new 4k version of crocodile dundee; they removed the tranny scene, the sac tap double check and weed references, but left the cocaine....
 
I always rip movies to my server, I've become so accustomed to the ease of starting any movie quickly. I don't have a problem buying disks, and I do specifically for good movies to support the people who make the movie. But lately I have found myself finding it FAR easier to download a movie off Usenet at 180MB/s versus transferring from bluray at like 30-40MB/s. So now I just have new wrapped unopened movies sitting on the shelf because it is too much of an all around hassle to actually use the disc. But I want the physical copy regardless.
 
I'm fully in camp streaming, even if I understand the allure of Blu-ray.

I'm the parent to a preschooler. It's not just that I'm worried about them breaking discs (unlikely but possible); it's that a physical movie library takes up space. I'd rather have that room for play. And perish the thought if we have to move and lug that collection around.

There's also the environmental impact. I don't want to reward pumping out plastic discs and cases just so I can sometimes get a higher-quality picture.

And yes, convenience helps. I know digital stores and subscriptions keep you from truly 'owning' videos, but you know what's also nice? Knowing that most any movie or show I want is a few remote clicks away. I can discover something new and watch it right away. I don't have to feel guilty if I buy a movie and find out that I'm not as keen on rewatching as I thought I was.
 
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