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Anyone else less than impressed with PTM7950?

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Sycraft

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I decided to give it a shot on my desktop after all the hype and I gotta say... I'm not impressed. I wonder if most people who use it either had a bad paste job, or if I did something wrong. I had Arctic MX-6 on my CPU and it was working fine, but I have a 13900K which is a toasty boy and could always use more cooling. My ASUS GPU apparently uses it from the factory so I decided to give it a shot.

Well, it was a PITA to install, people weren't wrong about that. It is difficult to get the stop layer of plastic off without taking the sheet off as well. I ruined one application and had to try again. But I did finally get it on. Fired up the system, did the "burn-in" process of running Prime95 for 10 minutes, shutting down the system and letting it cool a few times. Then looked at temps and... it's basically the same as the MX-6. They are fine, nothing to worry about, but no real improvement.

Thing is, in addition to being a pain to install, it is quite expensive compared to MX-6. A bigass 4g tube of MX-6 is like $8 and is enough to do a bunch of chips. One sheet of PTM7950 is like $20 and is enough to do maybe 2, assuming you don't screw up an application. It is probably easier for machine application, which is why I would assume companies like ASUS use it, but for human application it seems harder than paste so I just can't see the reason.
 
I think the consensus was it will edge out good thermal pastes on a desktop due to the presence of the IHS but will do much better with a laptop with the direct die on the heatsink.

It helped my laptop a lot.
 
I had applied it properly and did not see any better temps, not even close. The only thing going for this stuff is supposedly you don’t have to replace it as often. That alone is not worth it to me. I think it was marketed well and overhyped.
 
It worked well on my 7900xtx. Havent used it on a CPU.
 
I used Thermal Grizzly PhaseSheet, and it did way better on my 8400F with a bequiet low profile cooler, but I was having difficulty putting that cooler on my itx board, in a cramped case, so maybe that contributed to poor performance with paste. The bequiet mounting solution doesn't seem to put much pressure down either, which probably doesn't help.

I'm not sure how similar it is to the PTM7950 compound, but that's my sheety experience.
 
its the ihs. its better for direct contact, like on gpus.
ps: check your mx6 for any separation, that was an issue... or replace it with mx7.
 
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Dreamerbydesign said:
I had applied it properly and did not see any better temps, not even close. The only thing going for this stuff is supposedly you don’t have to replace it as often.
Click to expand...
I've never got that. I've heard geeks claim you need to repaste, but do you really? I have *NEVER* had a server have that as a maintenance item. I've never seen them do it, never had them tell me to do it, and never had a server fail because the CPUs started suddenly getting hot for no reason. I have servers that are quite old and still under warranty too, so if it was needed, you'd think they'd do it.

pendragon1 said:
its the ihs. its better for direct contact, like on gpus.
ps: check your ms6 for any separation, that was an issue... or replace it with mx7.
Click to expand...
I didn't see any separation issues when I took it off. I'm not going to bother to repaste this, the PTM sheet works fine, there's no issues, I just don't see any improvement. I'll look at getting a tube of MX-7 when I next build a system, though given the current price crap that is likely to be awhile.
 
Sycraft said:
I've never got that. I've heard geeks claim you need to repaste, but do you really? I have *NEVER* had a server have that as a maintenance item. I've never seen them do it, never had them tell me to do it, and never had a server fail because the CPUs started suddenly getting hot for no reason. I have servers that are quite old and still under warranty too, so if it was needed, you'd think they'd do it.


I didn't see any separation issues when I took it off. I'm not going to bother to repaste this, the PTM sheet works fine, there's no issues, I just don't see any improvement. I'll look at getting a tube of MX-7 when I next build a system, though given the current price crap that is likely to be awhile.
Click to expand...
I also in 30+ years of building and maintaining pc’s I have never had a re paste issue. I can recall maybe twice I did it for pc’s that were moved around from site to site and surely got banged around. I’ve never had a failure either from that so the no maintenance part of it wasn’t a selling point for me either.

I just never saw any appreciable benefit to it. I’m convinced it is just clever marketing. If it were that amazing it would be the new as5. Remember when that came out? The whole world thought you were nuts if you weren’t using in 2005. Difference is, that was a great product at the time that lived up to the hype. So everyone talked about, not just a few special social media influencers.
 
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Dreamerbydesign said:
I also in 30+ years of building and maintaining pc’s I have never had a re paste issue. I can recall maybe twice I did it for pc’s that were moved around from site to site and surely got banged around. I’ve never had a failure either from that so the no maintenance part of it wasn’t a selling point for me either.
Click to expand...
Only time I ever saw anything was waaay back in the day with the OG Arctic Silver. My roomate has used it on a system and it started having thermal issues like 3 years later and it had dried out. No idea if he did something wrong, if there was a bad batch, or if that was a problem it had. But ya otherwise? Never seen a problem. Never seen a problem and also never seen it done preventatively. Like Dell, HP, Netapp, etc will warranty systems to 7 years or more these days. Some of them, like Netapp, can be hard core "We will fix your shit in 2 hours of a failure" situation. Ok, well if they were expecting failures of paste, they'd do some kind of preventative maintenance to keep that call from happening... but they don't.

If it wasn't so fiddly to put on I could see the appeal to system builders, but it is, so that combined with the cost makes it something there's no way I can see recommending for a normal system.
 
Sycraft said:
Only time I ever saw anything was waaay back in the day with the OG Arctic Silver. My roomate has used it on a system and it started having thermal issues like 3 years later and it had dried out. No idea if he did something wrong, if there was a bad batch, or if that was a problem it had. But ya otherwise? Never seen a problem. Never seen a problem and also never seen it done preventatively. Like Dell, HP, Netapp, etc will warranty systems to 7 years or more these days. Some of them, like Netapp, can be hard core "We will fix your shit in 2 hours of a failure" situation. Ok, well if they were expecting failures of paste, they'd do some kind of preventative maintenance to keep that call from happening... but they don't.

If it wasn't so fiddly to put on I could see the appeal to system builders, but it is, so that combined with the cost makes it something there's no way I can see recommending for a normal system.
Click to expand...
I think its popularity has died down from when it was way hyped. Experienced builders did not see the “advantages” imo.
 
other things passed AS5s (AS didnt dry up, afaik) performance years ago. it was my go to until around the mx-4 times...
 
Dreamerbydesign said:
I think its popularity has died down from when it was way hyped. Experienced builders did not see the “advantages” imo.
Click to expand...
Ya I hadn't really heard a lot about it recently but I had never used it. Decided to try it since LTT sells it meaning there's a reliable store that you know is actually selling what you are ordering and not some random material. Interesting, but won't do it again.
 
depending on what thickness of PTM7950 you got .. you might need to double it up and put two layers on the IHS..

Also, If you bought it on amazon there is basically a "high" probability it is "fake" ... I'm not sure anyone is selling legit ptm7950 on amazon?

I have some PTM7950** (from amazon- maybe fake honestly) on my Thinkpad T14 Gen 1 (intel i5-10340U) and a Thinkcentre Tiny Neo 50 Gen 4 (13th gen i5) both of these run hot AF when I got them, the neo was neo and it was thermal throttling, the T14 was used and it too was thermal throttling badly...

After putting the "amazon ptm7950" on both of these cpus... the result.. they still run hot af but not quite as hot af and they don't throttle (mostly) ... with the neo 50 the results were terrible at 1st as I only did a single layer of the material, I redid it with 2x layers of the material and the temps were "better".

I am not in anyway "wowed" but this ... but I also think this stuff I got is not legit.
 
I got it from LTT Store because I know they actually source the real stuff from Honeywell. Like I said, it works fine, it isn't failing to cool the CPU, it just isn't doing it any better than MX-6 was. I doubt it needs doubling, the heatsink (Noctua NH D15) clamps pretty tight but even if it does, I'm not buying another sheet for $20. If I decide to repaste this for any reason I'll either go back to thermal paste or try liquid metal.

Like I said, temps are fine, it maxes out at like 86 degrees in Prime95, which is of course an unrealistically heavy load, it just isn't any better than what I saw with MX-6 paste before.
 
Had good results with laptops, including my Framework with PTM. I was happy enough with it I used it for my 9900X built desktop. Had no issues. Not used it on a GPU yet as my current one is still in warranty.

As for real stuff or not, I've just ordered off Amazon the past three times, same supplier. If I test the laptop before with the paste and after with the PTM...it's always been 5 to 10 degrees cooler with the PTM. So I'm fine with that.
 
Sycraft said:
I decided to give it a shot on my desktop after all the hype and I gotta say... I'm not impressed. I wonder if most people who use it either had a bad paste job, or if I did something wrong. I had Arctic MX-6 on my CPU and it was working fine, but I have a 13900K which is a toasty boy and could always use more cooling. My ASUS GPU apparently uses it from the factory so I decided to give it a shot.

Well, it was a PITA to install, people weren't wrong about that. It is difficult to get the stop layer of plastic off without taking the sheet off as well. I ruined one application and had to try again. But I did finally get it on. Fired up the system, did the "burn-in" process of running Prime95 for 10 minutes, shutting down the system and letting it cool a few times. Then looked at temps and... it's basically the same as the MX-6. They are fine, nothing to worry about, but no real improvement.

Thing is, in addition to being a pain to install, it is quite expensive compared to MX-6. A bigass 4g tube of MX-6 is like $8 and is enough to do a bunch of chips. One sheet of PTM7950 is like $20 and is enough to do maybe 2, assuming you don't screw up an application. It is probably easier for machine application, which is why I would assume companies like ASUS use it, but for human application it seems harder than paste so I just can't see the reason.
Click to expand...

I think you may have misunderstood the finer points.

1. it competes with 1st and 2nd tier thermal pastes for temps. But, is not necessarily better.

2. The main point touted for PTM, is that it resists pump-out.. And it also doesn't "dry out". Becuase its not really "wet". The point of the "Phase change", is that it melts during use. and hardens when it cools. Its not just a wet glob, like paste.

On a CPU with an IHS, it effectively won't ever pump-out. And can be considered a semi-permanent solution.
For direct die with a CPU or GPU or laptop: there is still potential for pump out. However.....I haven't seen it happen with PTM, yet. Typical thermal paste on a laptop or GPU or delidded CPU, can result in pump-out within less than 6 months. Especially with certain paste brands.

I've got "Joyjom" PTM from Amazon, on 2 desktop replacement Quadro laptops, and Asus gaming laptop, and a GPU (4070 Ti Super), for 3 years. And the temps are still the same or better. This PTM had no burn-in/thermal cycles, as stated for the real deal Honeywell PTM 7950. However, it has otherwise proven itself in longevity and temp control. For the Asus gaming laptop, it has been particularly amazing. The laptop is better than ever. Runs cooler, runs notably higher clock speeds, fans spin slower and make less noise. And 3 years later, that is all still true.

I have a 9800X3D with Thermal Grizzly Phase-sheet PTM for two years, temps are same or better. Something like Kryonaut or Gelid Extreme, may have pumped out by now. Thermal Grizzly's newer "Duronaut" paste is designed to be as good or better than Kryonaut, for temps. But, also be less prone to pump-out.

I also just put TG Phase-Sheet on an RTX 5080. Lower temps, consistently higher clockspeed, lower fan speed. And this GPU is only a few months old. (And to uh......be fair to the stock paste on this GPU: the reason I did this PTM swap so early, is because the stock thermal pads were too thick, causing a very noticable "S" bending of the GPU's PCB. So I replaced the pads with Thermal Grizzly putty, and put TG Phase Sheet on the GPU core). The PCB is now pretty straight. So, the Z-height between the GPU core and the vapor chamber is more even. And its also likely that its closer together, overall.

I have also otherwise used Phase-Sheet a few times on other CPUs, which were temporary test projects.

TG Phase-Sheet does typically behave just like Honeywell states for their PTM 7950 (and TG states on their directions). Needing up to 10 thermal cycles for temps to pretty much truly stabilize and be their best. Although Honeywell actually says in their data sheets, it shows improvement all the way to 1,000 cycles.

I have also tried one other generic PTM. As well as Thermalright's first PTM (they have a V2/version 2, which I have not tried).This other generic PTM just did not seem as good, all around. And Thermalright's V1 PTM had a problem where every 3rd or so boot----the temps would be awful. like 8+ degrees higher, across the board. I bought and used a few of them, and it was usually an issue. This is probably why they specifically made and packaged a "V2".

3. If you have some needlenose tweezers (typically included in an iFixit kit), applying PTM is pretty easy. and overall, a lot faster than spreading paste. You can also cut it to size, etc. I like applying PTM way more than paste, and have no further interest in Paste. I have never actually needed to put my PTM in the fridge or freezer. Although I did try it a couple of times. It just isn't necessary.

Nobu said:
I used Thermal Grizzly PhaseSheet, and it did way better on my 8400F with a bequiet low profile cooler, but I was having difficulty putting that cooler on my itx board, in a cramped case, so maybe that contributed to poor performance with paste. The bequiet mounting solution doesn't seem to put much pressure down either, which probably doesn't help.

I'm not sure how similar it is to the PTM7950 compound, but that's my sheety experience.
Click to expand...

In my experience, PTM absolutely does relatively better than paste, with lower pressure mounts, poor mounting hardware, Less even surfaces like vapor chambers, laptop coldplates, etc.
Which is interesting, because Honeywell actually states it should be used with fairly high mounting pressure. And they even have a variant product (https://www.moddiy.com/products/615...er-Highly-Thermally-Conductive-PCM-Paste.html), which is supposedly optimized for lower pressure stuff like laptops. But, I haven't seen any reason to go through the trouble of getting it.
 
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Fair assessment. On a desktop IHS you’re essentially paying triple the price for the exact same temps and ten times the installation faff. Definitely one for laptops or GPUs only.
 
chameleoneel said:
I think you may have misunderstood the finer points.

1. it competes with 1st and 2nd tier thermal pastes for temps. But, is not necessarily better.

2. The main point touted for PTM, is that it resists pump-out.. And it also doesn't "dry out". Becuase its not really "wet". The point of the "Phase change", is that it melts during use. and hardens when it cools. Its not just a wet glob, like paste.

On a CPU with an IHS, it effectively won't ever pump-out. And can be considered a semi-permanent solution.
For direct die with a CPU or GPU or laptop: there is still potential for pump out. However.....I haven't seen it happen with PTM, yet. Typical thermal paste on a laptop or GPU or delidded CPU, can result in pump-out within less than 6 months. Especially with certain paste brands.

I've got "Joyjom" PTM from Amazon, on 2 desktop replacement Quadro laptops, and Asus gaming laptop, and a GPU (4070 Ti Super), for 3 years. And the temps are still the same or better. This PTM had no burn-in/thermal cycles, as stated for the real deal Honeywell PTM 7950. However, it has otherwise proven itself in longevity and temp control. For the Asus gaming laptop, it has been particularly amazing. The laptop is better than ever. Runs cooler, runs notably higher clock speeds, fans spin slower and make less noise. And 3 years later, that is all still true.

I have a 9800X3D with Thermal Grizzly Phase-sheet PTM for two years, temps are same or better. Something like Kryonaut or Gelid Extreme, may have pumped out by now. Thermal Grizzly's newer "Duronaut" paste is designed to be as good or better than Kryonaut, for temps. But, also be less prone to pump-out.

I also just put TG Phase-Sheet on an RTX 5080. Lower temps, consistently higher clockspeed, lower fan speed. And this GPU is only a few months old. (And to uh......be fair to the stock paste on this GPU: the reason I did this PTM swap so early, is because the stock thermal pads were too thick, causing a very noticable "S" bending of the GPU's PCB. So I replaced the pads with Thermal Grizzly putty, and put TG Phase Sheet on the GPU core). The PCB is now pretty straight. So, the Z-height between the GPU core and the vapor chamber is more even. And its also likely that its closer together, overall.

I have also otherwise used Phase-Sheet a few times on other CPUs, which were temporary test projects.

TG Phase-Sheet does typically behave just like Honeywell states for their PTM 7950 (and TG states on their directions). Needing up to 10 thermal cycles for temps to pretty much truly stabilize and be their best. Although Honeywell actually says in their data sheets, it shows improvement all the way to 1,000 cycles.

I have also tried one other generic PTM. As well as Thermalright's first PTM (they have a V2/version 2, which I have not tried).This other generic PTM just did not seem as good, all around. And Thermalright's V1 PTM had a problem where every 3rd or so boot----the temps would be awful. like 8+ degrees higher, across the board. I bought and used a few of them, and it was usually an issue. This is probably why they specifically made and packaged a "V2".

3. If you have some needlenose tweezers (typically included in an iFixit kit), applying PTM is pretty easy. and overall, a lot faster than spreading paste. You can also cut it to size, etc. I like applying PTM way more than paste, and have no further interest in Paste. I have never actually needed to put my PTM in the fridge or freezer. Although I did try it a couple of times. It just isn't necessary.



In my experience, PTM absolutely does relatively better than paste, with lower pressure mounts, poor mounting hardware, Less even surfaces like vapor chambers, laptop coldplates, etc.
Which is interesting, because Honeywell actually states it should be used with fairly high mounting pressure. And they even have a variant product (https://www.moddiy.com/products/615...er-Highly-Thermally-Conductive-PCM-Paste.html), which is supposedly optimized for lower pressure stuff like laptops. But, I haven't seen any reason to go through the trouble of getting it.
Click to expand...
This! ☝️
The PTM 7950 doesn't offer the best temperatures, but it guarantees years (many more cycles) of consistent temperatures.
 
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