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- Oct 7, 2000
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something like this?
https://blurbusters.com/crt-simulation-in-a-gpu-shader-looks-better-than-bfi/
https://blurbusters.com/crt-simulation-in-a-gpu-shader-looks-better-than-bfi/
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With a 960-1000hz oled you could run an electron beam / crt phosphor simulation that was a very good CRT replica with similar MpRT (motion clarity) and look to the CRT of your choice, minimal lag and still brighter than most crts. It would also keep many other advantages compared to a traditional CRT.
With a 960-1000hz oled you could run an electron beam / crt phosphor simulation that was a very good CRT replica with similar MpRT (motion clarity)
According to Blur Busters, eliminating motion blur on a non-strobed LCD or OLED (sample-and-hold) display requires reaching 1000 Hz natively. [1, 2, 3]
The transition thresholds define this path to perfect CRT-level clarity: [1]
- 60 Hz: Standard non-strobed sample-and-hold display; maximum motion blur.
- 120 Hz to 240 Hz: Reduces motion blur by roughly 50% to 75% compared to 60 Hz.
- 480 Hz: Considered the minimum threshold to simulate near-perfect, blur-free motion without flickering.
- 1000 Hz: The mathematical equivalent to human-perceived CRT motion clarity without any strobing or Black Frame Insertion (BFI)
Yes exactly - mprt from electron beam / phosphor fade simulation is very cool, and I have tried it on my 240hz oled. With 480hz you can see the improvements and at 960 it should be perfect.
I know other technical problems would be introduced, but I wonder if dual gun CRTs would have found success in TVs/monitors if the tech had continued to advance.
Theoretically, it could have allowed almost double the refresh rate, at the cost of signal (and beam) complexity.
https://vintagetek.org/dual-beam-crt-guns/
.. . .
125 fpsHz (8ms) minimum with multiFrameGen x4 version = between 135 fps and 145 fps post dlss quality upscale
To get 500fps solid after mFGen x4, where you'd no longer need vrr and wouldn't have varying frame render times, you'd need a 125fps solid . To achieve that solid, uninterrupted 125 fps, you would generally need to be between 135 fps and 145 fps average (post dlss quality upscale).
. .
100 fpsHz (10ms) minimum with multFrameGen x5 version = between 120 to 140 fps average post dlss quality upscale
To ensure your frame rate never dips below 100 FPS, you need a native average of roughly 120 to 140 FPS. The specific number depends on the 1% lows and your hardware's frame-pacing consistency. [1, 2]
Because PC games experience sudden demand spikes (like when entering a new area or triggering an explosion), your "1% lows" will typically be 15 - 20 % lower than your average frame rate. [1, 2]
The Math Behind The Dips
- The 80/20 Rule of Frame Variance: In modern PC gaming, the slowest 1% of your rendered frames (the Low metric) dictates when you "feel" stutters. If your average is 120 FPS, your 99th percentile frame rate is generally around 100 FPS. [1, 2]
- The Target: If your target floor is 100 FPS, the math dictates that a 15% variance requires an average of approximately 117 FPS.
- The Reality: To account for engine-level micro-stutters and sudden drops, most gamers aim for a 130 - 140 FPS average to completely eliminate sub 100 FPS dips.
If you had post quality DLSS upscale frame rate of 120 (8.3ms). to 140 fps (7.14ms), you could multiply your 100fps (10ms) minimum x5 to 500fpsHz, or perhaps in the future x10 to 1000 fpsHz. Then no VRR necessary, 2ms persistence at 500fpsHZ, 1ms persistence (crt equivalent) at 1000 fpsHz.
You could keep running VRR optionally, too of course, if you wanted. Depending on the graph it might even reduce your effective lag slightly, but I'd keep an eye on the frame rate minimum in regard to the framerender latency "lag". I'd probably want my native framerender latency to be 10ms or less at the worst (low end of the graph), even if higher mFGen multiples are available eventually, and even if nvidia improves their latency tricks.
. . .
With flagship gpus, post dlss quality upscaling, 120 to 140fps is already doable on a good number of games, and that number increase a lot if you dial them in a bit (e.g. turn off path tracing). Future gens of gpus, perhaps even those a tier down from top, will be as powerful or more powerful in regard to native fps, too (and probably with better ai upscaling chips and software, maybe better path tracing performance, etc).
search result:
An estimated 25 to 30 popular modern PC games hit the 120fps to 140fps sweet spot at 4K resolution on an RTX 5090 using DLSS without Frame Generation. This subset primarily consists of extremely well-optimized or purely rasterized titles rather than extreme path-traced games.
Because of the sheer horsepower of the Blackwell architecture, modern games fall into distinct categories regarding the 120fps–140fps 4K target: [1]
- Direct Hits (120fps–140fps): Popular titles that use rasterization or moderate ray tracing hit this exact window effortlessly at 4K using DLSS (Quality mode). Examples include Call of Duty: Black Ops 6, Battlefield 2042, Cyberpunk 2077 (with standard Ray Tracing, not Path Tracing), Marvel's Spider-Man 2, Hogwarts Legacy, and Forza Horizon 6. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Overkill (>145fps): Highly competitive or lightweight esports titles—like Apex Legends, Overwatch 2, Counter-Strike 2, Valorant, and The Finals—vastly exceed 140fps even at native 4K or with DLSS. [, 2]
- Under Target (<120fps): Next-gen, fully path-traced titles such as Cyberpunk 2077 (with Path Tracing enabled), Alan Wake 2, or Black Myth: Wukong demand extreme rendering loads. Even with an RTX 5090 and DLSS Super Resolution, these will naturally fall into the 60fps–85fps range without Frame Generation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] <--- you can turn off path tracing in their settings though, optionally
Not to mention you need even more hardware to support this. Meanwhile CRT just makes clear motion naturally.After carefully thinking about this I came to the conclusion that the best summary to what FG is is single word: SCAM
It would not be and might have its use cases like these suggested by some people if it was reprojection. Otherwise trading latency for fake frames is just... ridiculous.
Like why would I even like such smooth motion?
Why wouldn't I like more cinematic look?
CRT doesn't make image overly smooth in an artificial way but makes motion sharp in an artificial way. That is something completely different. Incomparable.
I wouldn't call strobing "natural".Not to mention you need even more hardware to support this. Meanwhile CRT just makes clear motion naturally.
Because it looks more realistic? Real life doesn't have a frame rate, if you follow a moving object with your eyes, it is clear and smooth. Well, get a high enough frame rate and that is what it looks like on a screen too. When you get in the 1000fps range, you are starting to talk completely imperceptible frames, the motion will just be smooth.Like why would I even like such smooth motion?
That sounds like the "30 fps is enough for anyone" argument. Deciding that low FPS is the "right" was of doing things and then that we should use old tech to make it look less blurry. I mean if you want cinematic gaming I guess you can cap your framerate at 24fps, play on CRT or something else with strobing (actual film projectors generally strobe the whole image with a shutter at 72hz, not a line-by-line drawing like a CRT) and be happy.Why wouldn't I like more cinematic look?
To realistically maintain a 128 FPS minimum, your hardware should be pushing an average frame rate of 150 to 170 FPS (roughly 15-30% higher than your target). This headroom ensures that intense visual effects, crowded servers, or sudden frame drops do not push your performance below the crucial 128 FPS threshold.
Achieving this level of performance requires a capable setup, especially to prevent "1% lows" (the lowest 1% of frames measured during gameplay) from dipping below your target.
Why Target 128 FPS?
- High-Refresh Gaming: 128 FPS perfectly complements 144Hz monitors, keeping gameplay fluid.
- Engine-Specific Ticks: Many competitive titles (such as Apex Legends or VALORANT) and custom servers run on tick rates where syncing your FPS to multiples of 64 or 128 provides tighter, more responsive registration.
With flagship gpus, post dlss quality upscaling, 120 to 140fps is already doable on a good number of games, and that number increase a lot if you dial them in a bit (e.g. turn off path tracing). Future gens of gpus, perhaps even those a tier down from top, will be as powerful or more powerful in regard to native fps, too (and probably with better ai upscaling chips and software, maybe better path tracing performance, etc).
search result:
An estimated 25 to 30 popular modern PC games hit the 120fps to 140fps sweet spot at 4K resolution on an RTX 5090 using DLSS without Frame Generation. This subset primarily consists of extremely well-optimized or purely rasterized titles rather than extreme path-traced games.
Because of the sheer horsepower of the Blackwell architecture, modern games fall into distinct categories regarding the 120fps–140fps 4K target: [1]
- Direct Hits (120fps–140fps): Popular titles that use rasterization or moderate ray tracing hit this exact window effortlessly at 4K using DLSS (Quality mode). Examples include Call of Duty: Black Ops 6, Battlefield 2042, Cyberpunk 2077 (with standard Ray Tracing, not Path Tracing), Marvel's Spider-Man 2, Hogwarts Legacy, and Forza Horizon 6. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Overkill (>145fps): Highly competitive or lightweight esports titles—like Apex Legends, Overwatch 2, Counter-Strike 2, Valorant, and The Finals—vastly exceed 140fps even at native 4K or with DLSS. [, 2]
- Under Target (<120fps): Next-gen, fully path-traced titles such as Cyberpunk 2077 (with Path Tracing enabled), Alan Wake 2, or Black Myth: Wukong demand extreme rendering loads. Even with an RTX 5090 and DLSS Super Resolution, these will naturally fall into the 60fps–85fps range without Frame Generation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] <--- you can turn off path tracing in their settings though, optionally
╔════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
║ SERVER STATE (128-Tick Baseline) ║
║ Updates game data every 7.81 milliseconds ║
╚════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
│
┌────────────────────────┼──────────────────────────────┐
▼ ▼ ▼
┌───────────────┐ ┌───────────────┐ ┌───────────────┐
│ 60 FPS Solid │ │ 80 FPS Solid │ │ 128 FPS Solid │
└───────┬───────┘ └───────┬───────┘ └───────┬───────┘
│ │ │
▼ ▼ ▼
┌──────────────────┐ ┌──────────────────┐ ┌──────────────────┐
│ Render: 16.67 ms │ │ │ Render: 12.50 ms │ │ Render: 7.81 ms │
└──────────────────┘ └──────────────────┘ └──────────────────┘
Core Metrics Comparison
Metric 60 FPS Solid 80 FPS Solid 128 FPS Solid Frame Delivery Time 16.67 ms 12.50 ms 7.81 ms Ticks per Frame ~2.13 server ticks ~1.60 server ticks Exactly 1 server tick Interpolation Window Heavy (Needs 2+ ticks) Moderate (Ticks drift) None (1:1 alignment) Max Visual Delay ~17 ms behind server ~13 ms behind server ~8 ms behind server
The "Outside the Lines" Effect
60 FPS Solid: Heavy Smearing
- The State: Your PC throws away more than half of the server's updates.
- The Visuals: Heavy simulation. The client constantly guesses positions across two whole ticks.
- The Result: You are drawing far outside the server lines. You see a smoothed path of where the enemy was, missing their sharpest direction changes.
80 FPS Solid: Jagged Drift
- The State: The math is uneven (\(128 \div 80 = 1.6\)).
- The Visuals: Unbalanced simulation. Frame 1 aligns with a tick, Frame 2 drops between ticks, Frame 3 lands on a completely different tick interval.
- The Result: You draw closer to the lines, but the line thickness fluctuates. This creates micro-stuttering in visual information freshness.
128 FPS Solid: Perfect Tracing
- The State: Absolute harmony (\(128 \div 128 = 1\)).
- The Visuals: Zero simulation. Every single frame displays a brand-new, unique server update packet.
- The Result: You draw perfectly inside the lines. What you see is exactly what the server calculates.
Gameplay Impact
Input Latency
- 60 FPS: Your clicks can wait up to 16.67 ms to register on your screen before sending to the server.
- 80 FPS: Latency drops to 12.50 ms. It feels snappier, but commands still bottle up between ticks.
- 128 FPS: Minimum possible latency (7.81 ms). Your mouse inputs slice cleanly into the server's update windows.
Hit Registration & "Ghost Misses"
- 60 FPS: High risk. You click an enemy head. On your screen, it aligns. On the server, that player already changed directions 8 ms ago. The server rejects your shot.
- 80 FPS: Medium risk. The desync window is smaller, but uneven frame times still cause occasional phantom misses on fast-moving targets.
- 128 FPS: Zero risk. If your crosshair is on the pixel, the server registers the hit. No spatial desync occurs.
╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
║ AGGRESSIVE PEEKER APPROACHES ║
║ Clears the corner on a 128-Tick Server ║
╚═════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
│
┌───────────────────────────┼──────────────────────┐
▼ ▼ ▼
┌───────────────┐ ┌───────────────┐ ┌───────────────┐
│ 60 FPS Holde r │ │ 80 FPS Holder │ │ 128 FPS Holder │
└───────┬───────┘ └───────┬───────┘ └───────┬───────┘
│ │ │
▼ ▼ ▼
┌────────────────┐ ┌────────────────┐ ┌────────────────┐
│ Total Delay: │ │ Total Delay: │ │ Total Delay: │
│ ~100 ms │ │ ~85 ms │ │ ~72 ms │
└────────────────┘ └────────────────┘ └────────────────┘
Technical Delay Breakdown
This breakdown assumes a pristine network environment where both the peeker and the angle-holder have an identical 20 ms ping (10 ms one-way).
Delay Component 60 FPS Holder 80 FPS Holder 128 FPS Holder Network Transit (Both Pings) 20.00 ms 20.00 ms 20.00 ms Server Processing (1 Tick) 7.81 ms 7.81 ms 7.81 ms Client Frame Time (GPU) 16.67 ms 12.50 ms 7.81 ms Network Interpolation Buffer 23.43 ms (3 Ticks) 15.62 ms (2 Ticks) 7.81 ms (1 Tick) Monitor Scan-Out & Input Lag ~32.00 ms ~29.00 ms ~28.00 ms Total Peeker's Advantage ~100 ms ~85 ms ~72 ms