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Dual CCD X3D CPU's and thread scheduling

W

WilyKit

[H]ard|Gawd
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Curious what everyone's experience has been? I swore up and down I wasn't going to upgrade from AM4 until AMD released a single CCD x3d CPU with at least 12 cores. I didn't want to deal with scheduling issues but I also didn't want to settle for "just" 8 cores but eventually caved and built a new system around a 9950x3d.

Admittedly I did have some teething issues with scheduling when I first put it together. Black Ops 6 for example would routinely "jump ship" to the non vcache CCD and anytime this would happen there was a very noticeable hard stutter as well as micro stutter through out my gameplay. After a lot of googling, a bit of tweaking and tuning I finally got it sorted and the gaming experience since has been fantastic. Screenshot is while playing a multiplayer match in Black Ops 7. Process Lasso was not used. Battlefield 6 does not stay on the vcache CCD however. I've read this is due how the anti-cheat works. That said, it's silky smooth and do not encounter any of the stutters I did in COD initially so I'm guessing it's just the anti cheat process executing on the frequency CCD and not the game itself.

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WilyKit said:
Battlefield 6 does not stay on the vcache CCD however. I've read this is due how the anti-cheat works. That said, it's silky smooth and do not encounter any of the stutters I did in COD initially so I'm guessing it's just the anti cheat process executing on the frequency CCD and not the game itself.
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Sounds like the devs actually did things correctly. It's not that hard, they just have to do it. Windows has APIs to figure out what core is what kind. Pinning tasks to cores or groups of cores is easy. We do it at work all the time. It's totally correct for a well implemented game to shove some jobs off to the other CCD on a 2 CCD AMD chip or put them on e-cores on an Intel chip. Games usually just have a small number of hot threads. Main graphics thread, main game logic thread, maybe a few others you'd want on the same CCD or running on an Intel P-core. Lots of other stuff can be shoved off to the other CCD or e-cores. One good example is background asset loading threads. Their job is to read the next area off your SSD, decompress it, and put it in main memory before you get to the next area.

I think we're going to see a lot more games acting like BF6, especially AAA ones. It's just not hard, and while dual CCD AMD procs are rare treating the second CCD like a pile of Intel e-cores would work well and those are all over the place.
 
pendragon1 said:
View attachment 803362

maybe you should explain what you do to make it "silky smooth"
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Updated to latest bios (at the time) set CPPC Preferred Cores to “driver”
Installed latest chipset drivers
Made sure power profile set to balanced
On games windows game bar doesn’t recognize as a game, tell it it’s a game.

For BO6 and 7 I had to take an additional step by changing the thread count in configuration file to 8 (was set to 16)
zandor said:
One good example is background asset loading threads. Their job is to read the next area off your SSD, decompress it, and put it in main memory before you get to the next area.

I think we're going to see a lot more games acting like BF6, especially AAA ones. It's just not hard, and while dual CCD AMD procs are rare treating the second CCD like a pile of Intel e-cores would work well and those are all over the place.
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The first few seconds of a round in COD when textures are being streamed in from the drive and internet, there’s some activity on the CCD1 after that, CCD1 essentially flatlines. When I play warzone with friends we use teams for a video call, CCD1 has some activity with the teams call going.
 
WilyKit said:
Curious what everyone's experience has been? I swore up and down I wasn't going to upgrade from AM4 until AMD released a single CCD x3d CPU with at least 12 cores. I didn't want to deal with scheduling issues but I also didn't want to settle for "just" 8 cores but eventually caved and built a new system around a 9950x3d.

Admittedly I did have some teething issues with scheduling when I first put it together. Black Ops 6 for example would routinely "jump ship" to the non vcache CCD and anytime this would happen there was a very noticeable hard stutter as well as micro stutter through out my gameplay. After a lot of googling, a bit of tweaking and tuning I finally got it sorted and the gaming experience since has been fantastic. Screenshot is while playing a multiplayer match in Black Ops 7. Process Lasso was not used. Battlefield 6 does not stay on the vcache CCD however. I've read this is due how the anti-cheat works. That said, it's silky smooth and do not encounter any of the stutters I did in COD initially so I'm guessing it's just the anti cheat process executing on the frequency CCD and not the game itself.

View attachment 803341
Click to expand...
You can get around the anti-cheat CCD issue simply by setting the affinity of Steam to the X3D CCD, the game will inherent those same constraints. Although I never had an issue with BF6 feeling not smooth in any way letting it do it's own thing.

If you have the game in EA App, no idea if the same idea applies.
 
I personally just set BIOS to prefer vcache, and don't use the drivers or gamebar. I manually assign some non game stuff to the second CCD if needed.

This way you can be sure the main game threads are on the vcache CCD, and if the game needs more threads it can still use the second CCD. Sometimes that is beneficial (especially shader compilation is basically twice as fast, and some specific games do run faster), but sometimes it does hurt by a few % (the most I've seen is like 5% though... nothing dramatic), in which case I will force the affinity of the game to the vcache CCD manually.

And yes, to get around anti-cheats you simply have to pin the launcher to the correct CCD, be it EA, GoG, Steam or whatever then all games launched from there will follow that.

I could not tell the difference between 16t and 32t on BF6 when I tested but benchmarking multiplayer is tricky. 32t does make the game load faster though so there is that.
 
kalston said:
I personally just set BIOS to prefer vcache, and don't use the drivers or gamebar. I manually assign some non game stuff to the second CCD if needed.

This way you can be sure the main game threads are on the vcache CCD, and if the game needs more threads it can still use the second CCD. Sometimes that is beneficial (especially shader compilation is basically twice as fast, and some specific games do run faster), but sometimes it does hurt by a few % (the most I've seen is like 5% though... nothing dramatic), in which case I will force the affinity of the game to the vcache CCD manually.

And yes, to get around anti-cheats you simply have to pin the launcher to the correct CCD, be it EA, GoG, Steam or whatever then all games launched from there will follow that.

I could not tell the difference between 16t and 32t on BF6 when I tested but benchmarking multiplayer is tricky. 32t does make the game load faster though so there is that.
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With the CPPC set to driver, at least in COD, shader compilation uses both CCD's

III_Slyflyer_III said:
You can get around the anti-cheat CCD issue simply by setting the affinity of Steam to the X3D CCD, the game will inherent those same constraints. Although I never had an issue with BF6 feeling not smooth in any way letting it do it's own thing.

If you have the game in EA App, no idea if the same idea applies.
Click to expand...

Good to know, but yeah, I've not had any issues with BF6 doing it's thing so I'll probably leave it as-is
 
WilyKit said:
Good to know, but yeah, I've not had any issues with BF6 doing it's thing so I'll probably leave it as-is
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BF6 is new enough that it probably detects multiple CCDs, Intel proc with a mix of P and E cores, and AMD chips with a mix of full size and compact (slower) cores and handles them appropriately. Shit is just not hard. We do stuff like that at work all the time. I'm not in the game business, but if I was I wouldn't have a hard time making sure the hot threads all ended up on a p-core, full size core, or the right CCD. Probably also shove a bunch of other stuff off to e-cores, compact cores, or the other CCD if any of those are available.
 
zandor said:
BF6 is new enough that it probably detects multiple CCDs, Intel proc with a mix of P and E cores, and AMD chips with a mix of full size and compact (slower) cores and handles them appropriately. Shit is just not hard. We do stuff like that at work all the time. I'm not in the game business, but if I was I wouldn't have a hard time making sure the hot threads all ended up on a p-core, full size core, or the right CCD. Probably also shove a bunch of other stuff off to e-cores, compact cores, or the other CCD if any of those are available.
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BF6 is a good example... if you watch it's usage, it in fact does use both CCDs. You will see the majority of the X3D CCD used, but it clearly farms maybe 25% to the other CCD. Issues with the game itself aside, it runs very smooth.
 
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