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RTX 5xxx / RX 8xxx speculation

Comixbooks said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/palit-c...f-are-working-on-next-generation-geforce-gpus

6000 series if they call it that is in the works by Galax or Palit amazing how fast my card is outdated already. Just got it last year.
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Was talking to my coworker and he was telling me GPUs used to be outdated within months. I don't know how people did it back in the day, I get so much buyers remorse already. Progress was so fast back in the day.

Is the 6000 series really going to be that big of a jump? 4000 and 5000 didn't feel that big, the main thing is more on the artificial side with MFG.
 
Comixbooks said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/palit-c...f-are-working-on-next-generation-geforce-gpus

6000 series if they call it that is in the works by Galax or Palit amazing how fast my card is outdated already. Just got it last year.
Click to expand...

Thought it was delayed - moved up timeline cause skipping 5xxx super or something (which was skipped for supposed same reason/shortages/etc as 6xxx delays)? Dubious on this outside of just 'yeah, its coming and we're working on it, one day....'
 
ivandagiant said:
4000 and 5000 didn't feel that big, the main thing is more on the artificial side with MFG.
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4000 did not feel because of pricing but it was (samsung 8 ->TSMC 5 family of node was quite something), a 294mm-192 bit 4070 super was matching the 628mm-384 bits 3080ti in many things, the 379mm-256bits-300watt 4080super was beating the 628mm-384bits-370watt fully enabled 3090 by 33%.

Depends on how better that TSMC node will be this time around (that why the 5000 was really close to the 4000, the node used was very similar)

kram182 said:
Thought it was delayed - moved up timeline cause skipping 5xxx super or something (which was skipped for supposed same reason/shortages/etc as 6xxx delays)? Dubious on this outside of just 'yeah, its coming and we're working on it, one day....'
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Not sure if it can be delayed versus planned from the start to be a long window launch, if it is fall 2026, seem like some leak would have been long done, tape out would not only be done, actual production would have started, depends how we call a 2027 launch in term of delay...

"only" 2 years after 5000 series, but that one was delayed missing the late 2024 usual window. The statement does not mean much, regardless of when it is released, you can work on your cooling/power delivery, hdmi 2.2/dp 2.0/etc... tech without being fully fix, many of those things are universal-common base.
 
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They were only saying they were still in business and are "working" on next gen cards. Nothing about release date. It won't be this year and maybe not even next with the current state of things.

It was them saying "were alive" not hinting at release dates.

Yes in the early days cards improved at a crazy pace but mainstream priced upper mid range was $200-350 and selling cards used was easy. It was always exciting, and buyers remorse was always buried under the amazement at the constant real improvements.

The tech is mature now, I think it's only appropriate that compatibility of cards has gotten longer and time between releases should be at least double what it was in the 2000s.
 
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I'd be fine with a 6000 series delay, my 5090 crushes everything already at 4K and as much as it cost, id rather wait a bit longer to remain on top of graphics card technology 😅
 
If they're smart, the'll price the 6090 at 10k or something. Why not after seeing plenty people eager to buy 5090s at 3-4k all day? I would be considering it if I were Nvidia.

The worst part would be people still buying used 4090s and 5090s for 3-4k still, enabing normies to still buy a 10k 6090, and also it would just drive the rest of the stack to be that much higher price as well. So a 5080 would have to be 5k if it's half the cores again, and so on down the line. But it would be funny if they made the 6090 10k and still only 1k or so for a 6080 at half the speed.
 
III_Slyflyer_III said:
I'd be fine with a 6000 series delay,
Click to expand...
it hasnt even been announced...

T4rd said:
If they're smart, the'll price the 6090 at 10k or something. Why not after seeing plenty people eager to buy 5090s at 3-4k all day? I would be considering it if I were Nvidia.

The worst part would be people still buying used 4090s and 5090s for 3-4k still, enabing normies to still buy a 10k 6090, and also it would just drive the rest of the stack to be that much higher price as well. So a 5080 would have to be 5k if it's half the cores again, and so on down the line. But it would be funny if they made the 6090 10k and still only 1k or so for a 6080 at half the speed.
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no, they do not need to keep driving the prices up and ruining our hobby....
 
T4rd said:
The worst part would be people still buying used 4090s and 5090s for 3-4k still, enabing normies to still buy a 10k 6090
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Best decision I made was selling my 5090’s I had for profit and going with a 5080 and switching to 1440P. Prices are just ridiculous and people still want to pay. It’s not going to get better unfortunately due to this. Kind of glad I’m on the phasing out part of my PC gaming life.
 
Comixbooks said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/palit-c...f-are-working-on-next-generation-geforce-gpus

6000 series if they call it that is in the works by Galax or Palit amazing how fast my card is outdated already. Just got it last year.
Click to expand...

Remember that this year is unusual in that there isn't going to be a new card launch from Nvidia for the first time in 30 years. Your card is lasting an unusually long time by all normal metrics. Those of us who've been around the hobby for a long time can tell you that revolutions used to happen frequently and staying on the cutting edge was either really expensive or impossible lol. We get a lot more runway out of hardware now.
 
pendragon1 said:
no, they do not need to keep driving the prices up and ruining our hobby....
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No, "enthusiasts" (the buyers) are the ones driving the prices up. The market ultimately dictates the price, and if consumers keep enabling high prices the same as on the used market, it will keep going up anyways.

So why not absolutely gouge the fiscally irresponsible enthusiasts for the flagship card and let everyone else pay 10% of that or less for half of the performance or less for the lesser cards?
 
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T4rd said:
No, "enthusiasts" (the buyers) are the ones driving the prices up. The market ultimately dictates the price, and if consumers keep enabling high prices the same as on the used market, it will keep going up anyways.

So why not absolutely gouge the fiscally irresponsible enthusiasts for the flagship card and let everyone else pay 10% of that or less for half of the performance or less for the lesser cards?
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retards with too much money and not enough sense. and nv raise the prices in the first place.
that will just fuck us all over even worse. why the fuck are you rooting for it?
 
pendragon1 said:
that will just fuck us all over even worse. why the fuck are you rooting for it?
Click to expand...

Prices always go up - in 2000 a HALO NV GPU would cost you $499 - in 2008 $650 - in 2018 $2,499 / $1,199 (Depending on if you want to count the Titan or 2080Ti)....... we're in 2026 now talking about a ~2027/2028 release.......
 
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T4rd said:
If they're smart, the'll price the 6090 at 10k or something. Why not after seeing plenty people eager to buy 5090s at 3-4k all day? I would be considering it if I were Nvidia.

The worst part would be people still buying used 4090s and 5090s for 3-4k still, enabing normies to still buy a 10k 6090, and also it would just drive the rest of the stack to be that much higher price as well. So a 5080 would have to be 5k if it's half the cores again, and so on down the line. But it would be funny if they made the 6090 10k and still only 1k or so for a 6080 at half the speed.
Click to expand...

It won't be $10k. I could see them doing a similar price increase like what we saw from the 4090 to 5090 though, so I could see them doing something like $2500 for a 6090. They're in price discovery mode, and as soon as they saw people lining up to pay $1600 for a 4090 on opening day, we were basically screwed when it came to buying the top card just for gaming. If you're making money on it, $2500 probably makes a lot of sense, but it's less justifiable if you're only gaming. At that tier though, you'll get both types of customer.

I still remember how insane I thought the 2080Ti was for $1200, only to be pleasantly surprised to see the 3000 series much more reasonably priced at launch, although I don't envision that pattern again now that Nvidia knows what the consumer is willing to pay.
 
T4rd said:
No, "enthusiasts" (the buyers) are the ones driving the prices up. The market ultimately dictates the price, and if consumers keep enabling high prices the same as on the used market, it will keep going up anyways.

So why not absolutely gouge the fiscally irresponsible enthusiasts for the flagship card and let everyone else pay 10% of that or less for half of the performance or less for the lesser cards?
Click to expand...

They're not exactly giving people a deal below the halo tier. The 5080 is hardly a cheap GPU if you compare what you used to get for that kind of money gen over gen, even adjusting for inflation.
 
"oh wow, these tards are paying scalpers double over fomo. we might as well be the scalpers" - nvidia
 
pendragon1 said:
retards with too much money and not enough sense. and nv raise the prices in the first place.
that will just fuck us all over even worse. why the fuck are you rooting for it?
Click to expand...
I've just been black pilled by this post-COVID economy and want to see the market collapse at this point really.

But if I were selling a product at 2k MSRP and saw partners struggle to keep them in stock at almost double that price. That would tell me I can likely double those prices again for its replacement and prolly still sell all of my supply. I bet even if the 6090 is only another 30-40% faster with the same amount of VRAM, plenty out there would still be happy to buy them at nearly 10k so they can run the newest UE5 slop with PT at 4K DLSS quality (instead of Balanced or Performance now) at 60+ FPS finally.
 
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HockeyJon said:
It won't be $10k. I could see them doing a similar price increase like what we saw from the 4090 to 5090 though, so I could see them doing something like $2500 for a 6090. They're in price discovery mode, and as soon as they saw people lining up to pay $1600 for a 4090 on opening day, we were basically screwed when it came to buying the top card just for gaming. If you're making money on it, $2500 probably makes a lot of sense, but it's less justifiable if you're only gaming. At that tier though, you'll get both types of customer.



I still remember how insane I thought the 2080Ti was for $1200, only to be pleasantly surprised to see the 3000 series much more reasonably priced at launch, although I don't envision that pattern again now that Nvidia knows what the consumer is willing to pay.
Click to expand...
I'm just being facetious really, no way they'll get that stupid with pricing. But still it's not a good sign that these cards, and even old used 4090s, are still selling for significantly above their original MSRP. If they did get that stupid though, I wouldn't blame Nvidia, I would blame everyone actually buying them. Esp. with the plethora of mediocre AAA games now that put more effort into graphics than gameplay or putting their politics into the games as well.

Outside of Capcom lately and RTX Remixes of old games, I don't see many exciting games warranting the need for fast cards. I've been happy with my 5080 that I got new for below MSRP, but I would definitely still be fine on my old 3080 12GB had I not jumped on that "deal" last year.

pendragon1 said:
"oh wow, these tards are paying scalpers double over fomo. we might as well be the scalpers" - nvidia
Click to expand...
Indeed.. if I saw people scalping my product for 2x the MSRP, I'd rather just cut them out and make that money myself to put into my future products at least. Seems more productive than enabling scalpers on eBay or otherwise at least.
 
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T4rd said:
Indeed..
Click to expand...
indeed.gif
 
T4rd said:
I'm just being facetious really, no way they'll get that stupid with pricing. But still it's not a good sign that these cards, and even old used 4090s, are still selling for significantly above their original MSRP. If they did get that stupid though, I wouldn't blame Nvidia, I would blame everyone actually buying them. Esp. with the plethora of mediocre AAA games now that put more effort into graphics than gameplay or putting their politics into the games as well.

Outside of Capcom lately and RTX Remixes of old games, I don't see many exciting games warranting the need for fast cards. I've been happy with my 5080 that I got new for below MSRP, but I would definitely still be fine on my old 3080 12GB had I not jumped on that "deal" last year.


Indeed.. if I saw people scalping my product for 2x the MSRP, I'd rather just cut them out and make that money myself to put into my future products at least. Seems more productive than enabling scalpers on eBay or otherwise at least.
Click to expand...

I mean I thought an RTX 2080Ti for $1200 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 4090 for $1600 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 5090 for $2000 was stupid pricing. The market didn’t care what I thought. Neither did Nvidia. You said yourself that 4090 and 5090 cards are going for multiples higher in the secondary market. Nvidia sees that too. Why would they not get even stupider with the pricing given that? It’s not as if they haven’t before. I’d expect them to get even stupider with it for the 6090. Their shareholders will tell them they’d be stupid not to, and they serve their shareholders, they do not serve gamers.

I mean Asus brought out the ROG Astral 5090 for $1000 over the 5090s MSRP. Those cards are selling. People are literally paying up for what is essentially a heatsink that Asus has decided is worth the same price as a 5080. People are buying it. Those same people will buy a $3000 6090 no problem. They’ll probably buy the $4000 6090 ROG Astral at that lol.
 
HockeyJon said:
I mean I thought an RTX 2080Ti for $1200 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 4090 for $1600 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 5090 for $2000 was stupid pricing. The market didn’t care what I thought. Neither did Nvidia. You said yourself that 4090 and 5090 cards are going for multiples higher in the secondary market. Nvidia sees that too. Why would they not get even stupider with the pricing given that? It’s not as if they haven’t before. I’d expect them to get even stupider with it for the 6090. Their shareholders will tell them they’d be stupid not to, and they serve their shareholders, they do not serve gamers.

I mean Asus brought out the ROG Astral 5090 for $1000 over the 5090s MSRP. Those cards are selling. People are literally paying up for what is essentially a heatsink that Asus has decided is worth the same price as a 5080. People are buying it. Those same people will buy a $3000 6090 no problem. They’ll probably buy the $4000 6090 ROG Astral at that lol.
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Yup.

We aren’t competing with scalpers as much as we are competing against data centers. This is why we get a later release.
 
HockeyJon said:
I mean I thought an RTX 2080Ti for $1200 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 4090 for $1600 was stupid pricing. Then I thought the 5090 for $2000 was stupid pricing. The market didn’t care what I thought. Neither did Nvidia. You said yourself that 4090 and 5090 cards are going for multiples higher in the secondary market. Nvidia sees that too. Why would they not get even stupider with the pricing given that? It’s not as if they haven’t before. I’d expect them to get even stupider with it for the 6090. Their shareholders will tell them they’d be stupid not to, and they serve their shareholders, they do not serve gamers.

I mean Asus brought out the ROG Astral 5090 for $1000 over the 5090s MSRP. Those cards are selling. People are literally paying up for what is essentially a heatsink that Asus has decided is worth the same price as a 5080. People are buying it. Those same people will buy a $3000 6090 no problem. They’ll probably buy the $4000 6090 ROG Astral at that lol.
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Yeah, but you're a reasonable person and not "[H]" unlike the people buying those cards at double MSRP. So clearly they're not stupid enough prices. So make them 10k MSRP next time and if they keep selling, 20k after that. That's peak capitalism there. 😅

I would only advocate for this of course if the lower tier cards stay realistically priced. So the "enthusiasts" are the only ones to get mega gouged.

Again, this isn't going to happen, I just kind of wish it would so only a few get the idiot tax instead of the whole market. Allowing them to somewhat subsidize the rest.
 
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T4rd said:
So the "enthusiasts" are the only ones to get mega gouged.
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if you looik at what price they usually re-sell them just before upgrading ot the new generation, the enthusiasts waiting in line (or botting their way) to buy the top cards at launch at MSRP have not spend much on their GPU since they bought a 3090 if they ran nicehash, they maybe turned a small profit, not sure that count has been gouged at all.

Has for the price being stupid, there is a reason no company in the world released a 4090 GPU at a better price yet, at the $1600 price point not sure how great margin would be and if the price is really that stupid.

Looking at the used 4090 market:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=RTX+4090&_sacat=0&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&Memory%20Size=24%20GB&_dcat=27386&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1

People that bought them $1600, can 3.x years later sales them for more than $1000, they were not gouged or stupid financially in any reasonable sense of those terms, even with NiceHash being over for that one, even some of the used 3090 RTX sold close to MSRP.
 
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T4rd said:
Yeah, but you're a reasonable person and not "[H]" unlike the people buying those cards at double MSRP. So clearly they're not stupid enough prices. So make them 10k MSRP next time and if they keep selling, 20k after that. That's peak capitalism there. 😅

I would only advocate for this of course if the lower tier cards stay realistically priced. So the "enthusiasts" are the only ones to get mega gouged.

Again, this isn't going to happen, I just kind of wish it would so only a few get the idiot tax instead of the whole market. Allowing them to somewhat subsidize the rest.
Click to expand...

For sure. I mean I can’t get mad at Nvidia when the market told them their prices weren’t high enough just because I don’t like paying more. They’re there to make money, not do me a solid as a gamer. What’s annoying is that it is impacting the entire stack now. 80 series cards now start at $1000. Yes, inflation is one factor, I get it, but we’re undeniably paying more for less now than we used to even when adjusting for those factors.

In any case, by the far the best Nvidia purchase I’ve made wasn’t any of their cards. It was their stock.
 
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Luckily I got my 5090 for an affordable price, but I can definitely see Nvidia charging $2500+ for the next 6090.
 
I think we need to remind ourselves that the real reason for the high GPU prices in recent years is mostly down to lack of competition.

Nvidia are now competing with themselves, a 6090 would have no competition beside a 5090, so they'll price it accordingly, $2,500 at the very least. And a 6080 that's slightly faster than a 4090 will likely go for $1,500. The 6070 will become the new XX80 card at $899.
 
spine said:
I think we need to remind ourselves that the real reason for the high GPU prices in recent years is mostly down to lack of competition.

Nvidia are now competing with themselves, a 6090 would have no competition beside a 5090, so they'll price it accordingly, $2,500 at the very least. And a 6080 that's slightly faster than a 4090 will likely go for $1,500. The 6070 will become the new XX80 card at $899.
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there is a chance of (a costly) competition for the 6080.

if such a competition happens then nvidia, in response, could either release a true 6080 (beefed up 6080) or follow up very soon with a 6080 super.

another surprising competition could be at the budget level (50xt). AMD could release 128bit lpddr5x based 10050xt with 12gb or 16gb or 24gb memory
 
spine said:
I think we need to remind ourselves that the real reason for the high GPU prices in recent years is mostly down to lack of competition.
Click to expand...
To a point (and the lack of competition is because GPU got so much more costly to design and make), msrp at least the 4090 and 5090 were not particularly poor value per dollar versus the 4080-5070/5080, it is not like GPU price where some competition exist are cheap.

5090 cost twice the 5080, but you have twice the memory, twice the memory bandwith and twice the transistors on your GPU die, almost twice the cooling/power delivery, while usually the price per chips goes up not down the bigger they get.

The cost of designing and making more and more complex chips that defy recent previous understanding of what possible (we grew up in a world that thought 10nm could be an hard physical limit to silicon chips, we are now talking about 2nm and lower family of nodes) exploded:
Estimated-Wafer-Price-Per-Node-AnySilicon.png
and
beta&t=eHuU5M3xDlTPE-jqH92EWccifLDlobTJ78ioCVUSV7Y.jpg


which goes hand in hand for the lack of competition, if you design a top of the line chips you must either be able to sells millions or charge a giant amount per just to pay for the R&D. AMD could do one, but the chance of making back all that extra cost of adding one more die to a product family, the high end power delivery-"motherboard" needed for it and so on, can be nearly nill without an already existing large market for it and something no one take the risk to try.

Raw BOM cost of a 980ti in 2015 would have been what around $215 dollar (28nm got really cheap and mature by 2015) and had an msrp of $650 with super great margin, a 4090 would have been around $750 with an msrp of $1600 much lower margin and was a product that was so much more costly to design to amortize, 4090 had arguably an better price at MSRP (and was hard to find for a reason, great value per dollar).
 
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spine said:
I think we need to remind ourselves that the real reason for the high GPU prices in recent years is mostly down to lack of competition.

Nvidia are now competing with themselves, a 6090 would have no competition beside a 5090, so they'll price it accordingly, $2,500 at the very least. And a 6080 that's slightly faster than a 4090 will likely go for $1,500. The 6070 will become the new XX80 card at $899.
Click to expand...

Prices went up, because they rather sell that silicon for AI hardware. The consumer side is no longer worth their time.
 
spine said:
I think we need to remind ourselves that the real reason for the high GPU prices in recent years is mostly down to lack of competition.

Nvidia are now competing with themselves, a 6090 would have no competition beside a 5090, so they'll price it accordingly, $2,500 at the very least. And a 6080 that's slightly faster than a 4090 will likely go for $1,500. The 6070 will become the new XX80 card at $899.
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This.

It's been functionally like this since Kepler / GCN era (with some competition once the 290X released), but only got worse when AI took off and RT as a feature became a thing. AMD could catch up on the gaming side maybe, but Nvidia still wouldn't see them as competition unless they actually took a sizable enough market share of the gaming market. As it is, AMD seems content to just play to their existing fans and play their own pricing games.
 
Sir Beregond said:
AMD could catch up on the gaming side maybe, but Nvidia still wouldn't see them as competition unless they actually took a sizable enough market share of the gaming market
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That something we often see, but that does not match what we saw.

The 4000 super series refresh, the way they try to flood new cycle anytime AMD as an announcement (DLSS 5.0 was right after AMD-MIcrosoft roadmap I think for a recent one), 3090TI ready and launched the second AMD as some credible claim of fatest gaming GPU in the world, when we combine handheld, consoles, I feel like AMD do consider AMD as a competitor and AMD has quite a large market share of the gaming GPU.

PS5 and Xbox sold 150-160 millions units with RDNA 2 in them, not sure Ampere including switch 2 hybrid sold has much yet.

There would not need to try to vendor lock things in the gaming space without seeing others as competition.

Maybe in some case like a 3090TI/(and a 4090TI in stand by in case) always having the halo or the announcement game it is more pitty ego driving it than serious commercial competition, but when you weight in the consoles space and the upcoming AMD apu in the future laptop gaming space (reaching more and more that good enough level and helped with CPU vendor lock-in strategy) they must be seen as a competitor, PS6 on AMD gaming gpu is something they think about, even discrete gpu.
 
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