Multiple monitors! Killer to me on Linux. Two monitors were bad on Windows 7, 10. No go on Linux. Now have three monitors and Windows 11 is pretty slick with them. Cannot imagine trying them with Linux. That is the main holdup on trying Linux again. Is it easy to set up three monitors? Just curious.
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Windows isn't the best operating system anymore
- Thread starter philb2
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I use 2 high-hz monitors (and sometimes a 3rd) on Linux and they work great. Freesync on my main monitor works and my secondary Gsync monitor also works over Freesync. I'd say it's even better than Windows since you have actual control over mouse hotspots and how/where applications open.
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You, like me and others here are enthusiasts, and thus use things that 90% of people know nothing about. Most people can operate on a Chrome computer. They just need a magic internet portal.
If someone received a new Windows PC it likely has a half hour of updates waiting. Mint, that would be a 100% optional five minutes.
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I don't know about current but that was definitely fair before. Although my preference is ultra-ultra wide monitors, single monitor with the space of dual widescreens.
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I use 3x displays and have had no issues using them in Linux (on KDE Plasma 5 and 6). They just work. Things were rougher on X11 (but still worked fine overall), especially when using monitors with different refresh rates, or trying to game on one monitor while the others were active. But now on Wayland everything works great. I also have no issues using those same 3 displays on Win10, and I used 3 monitors back when I was on Win7 too without many problems. It's no harder to set up multiple displays on Plasma 5 or 6 than it is on Windows 7, 10, or 11. Just go into KDE System Settings, activate the displays, set their refresh rates, choose the primary display, turn on HDR if you want (on Wayland), and you're done.
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
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This is why I always install Chocolatey first when I install Windows. Give me that Linux like repository without a huge waste of my time.
Are you kink shaming me?
All Linux is doing is not advancing past Windows 7 in terms of how it goes about itself. Instead of making Windows 7 UI look slightly better with performance improvements and an easy to access app store, Microsoft would instead take away the UI and make Windows 8 into a tablet based OS. Then they realized people hated it, and brought back the Start Menu for Windows 8.1. People hated that, so they made Windows 10 more like Windows 7 but with a worse menu and hidden settings. So of course, Microsoft had a good thing going and made Windows 11 the step child of Windows 8.
Meanwhile, Linux used to look like Windows 95 but with a heavy emphasis on terminal. Modern Linux looks like Windows 7 but with slight graphic upgrades, or massive upgrades which is now called ricing.
View: https://youtu.be/NrRVr-kysko?si=lTWAeeFh9XXhmN7o
I haven't tried three monitors but I've used 2 for years with no problems.
It takes me nearly 12+ hours to set up Windows 11, and that’s without reinstalling all my games from Epic...
The installation itself takes 5–7 minutes, but the setup afterward...
That’s because I do everything manually, without using any third-party software.
Oh, right, if that's your job, it will be managed by your organization—there's no other option.
I really like CachyOS > Reinstalling all packages—that’s brilliant; everything’s repaired in a few minutes : )
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I feel the best thing an OS can do is get out of the way as much as possible, and allow the user to decide how the bits of silicon behave.
Windows has been increasingly annoying, alternatives increasingly palatable for almost everyone.
Yes, I understand driver issues.
Windows has been increasingly annoying, alternatives increasingly palatable for almost everyone.
Yes, I understand driver issues.
Yes, if a user is proficient with both Windows and Linux then Linux is easily the fastest to configure and update out of the box. But, since the vast majority of your average users are Windows trained those numbers would be skewed in favour of Windows. Again, not a slight against the operating system but a slight against the user base and how dominant a position Windows has. It would be the same if you switch them from MS Office to Libre Office. It would take time to learn where things are depending on how advanced a user they were in Office. My father picked up LibreOffice pretty fast when I installed that for him but he also doesn't do anything fancy with his spreadsheets.
So when I, and others, talk about the "cost" in time to pick up Linux it really is from the perspective of people only familiar with Windows (and Android/iOS) and not from someone who's familiar with both. Most people here have experience with both so can't really be used as a benchmark for the transition. When I first switched a single machine to Linux a while ago I was going to use Bazzite but I couldn't get it to run. It would just blank screen and do nothing. Then I switched to Mint and it ran fine. Then I struggled figuring out how to install programs ... again, had no reference. Command line? All new learning. That process of getting Mint up to the level of where Windows is for me took WAY WAY WAY longer than it would have taken to install Windows and get it running. Again, not a slight against Linux but if you've used Windows your whole life, like me, there is a steep learning curve and I'm still not up to parity with my Windows knowledge.
SecretStash
Gawd
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The barrier to entry might be lower now with AI. I haven't tested how extensive it is, but I know that it is pretty good at generating scripts to do the things you want it to do
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I have a ridiculous setup, 1680x1050, 4k, and 1600x1200 (i know....) with a 1080ti. The only issue was some flickering on the 4k monitor, a quick google search and copy pasting some commands to switch from the open source drivers to Nvidia drivers fixed it right up. And to be fair the monitor has similar flickering issues by default on windows because it wants to do 160hz and the 1080ti can't handle it.
This is on Kubuntu. If it worked for my dumb ass it'll work for others. However, I still dual boot just because.
I think windows and linux are perfectly fine and most of the arguments are a bit biased (30 years experience in windows vs 20 hours in linux). Windows just needs to unload the goddamned bloat and spyware.
That's a fair point. I may try that when I get home for mounting my NAS in Linux. Last time I tried I was digging through posts and help files and probably missed some things along the way. It may be easier now to follow the procedures.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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There's something to be said for that. Especially with any OS where a command prompt is needed regularly. If there's a GUI, I can hunt around and usually find the options I want. A command prompt requires that you have to know a hell of a lot more (including the various syntaxes for the prompt), which can be a hell of a barrier at times. An AI prompt would hopefully handle a lot of that.
I can't say much about Linux, as I really have only recently used it in single display systems and VM's, but using XFCE with X11 on FreeBSD gives me no problems for a tri-monitor setup. It pretty much works out of the box without any additional configuration beyond telling it what order the monitors are in. They are all the same resolution, so I don't know how this would translate when using a variety of resolutions.
This really seems like a you issue, rather than a Windows issue. And I speak to all those in this thread who claim to spend so much more time tweaking Windows than Linux. You don't need to do all that customization of Windows to get it to work. You do it to get it to work the way you want it to work, and you could easily spend as much time tweaking a basic Ubuntu or Fedora installation. You use a different distribution that already has the customizations and tweaks you like? I ask, how much time have you spent trying different Linux distributions to find the one that comes mostly configured the way you like it? To be fair, pretty much all the personal Windows 11 installations I've done recently are IOT, which comes pretty stripped down already, but to spend 12 hours to setup a Windows 11 install before installing 3rd party applications is crazy.
Of course, I spend so much time on it (every few years) because I want to customize it entirely to my needs. But that’s the whole point of using your own PC – everyone does it, just not this way.
Just configuring Group Policy by clicking here and there takes quite a bit of time.
But then, when I sit down to play games or run benchmarks, everything runs as smoothly as possible.
SecretStash
Gawd
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I've been using Claude to generate Bash and power shell and it's good.
Could get you in trouble if you don't review what it's doing, but really good from what I see.
I've long heard that Microsoft's biggest problem in Windows is simply a lack of respect for the user.
And it's not just big things like Copilot, Start menu ads, or installing updates against the user's will. It's little things like nagging system tray notifications, or apps that steal focus. It's a bit ironic that people complain about Apple control (not that it's entirely unwarranted) when macOS is still surprisingly laid back compared to Windows. Usually the worst offense is a dock icon that bounces for a prompt.
And it's not just big things like Copilot, Start menu ads, or installing updates against the user's will. It's little things like nagging system tray notifications, or apps that steal focus. It's a bit ironic that people complain about Apple control (not that it's entirely unwarranted) when macOS is still surprisingly laid back compared to Windows. Usually the worst offense is a dock icon that bounces for a prompt.
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80-90% of the general public "familiar with Windows" just fire up a web browser to get to their "apps." And that's after getting through the forced Windows OOBE. They can handle a modern distro that gets out of their way like Mint or Pop if they just wanted to order a PC with a warranty.
As mentioned previously, web apps for Office and Google are petty popular for free users that days and they work on just about everything with a browser. How many regular folks are installing classic Office suite outside of the Enterprise?
I'm running two Linux based systems here, both with differing distro's but the same DE (Plasma). Both run multiple monitors under Wayland, both operate perfectly with multiple monitors.
I love that they call it "unrecommended" in the article, yet the scenario they describe is the recommended default within those settings....
DukenukemX
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This is what I mean when Microsoft breaks Windows with updates every 2-3 weeks. This is also yet another BitLocker issue, because for the past four years we've seen BitLocker breaking Windows. October 2025 (KB5066835) did this last year with BitLocker. August 2022 (KB5012170) did this four years ago. Just maybe, nobody should use BitLocker?
I know we have argued back and forth on the whole mantel thing. NO NVIDIA is not at a disadvantage cause the OpenGL people accepted the abandoned Mantel as a starting place to build Vulkan. Nvidia was involved in Vulkan FROM day -730. Nvidia had a WORKING Vulkan Driver on the Day Vulkan launched... AMD DID NOT.
The programmable descriptors on AMD cards were NOT Employed in anyway shape or form any differently on Mantel then they are on DX. In fact DXVK did NOT have support for AMDs programmable descriptor for FIVE YEARS! VKD3D existed for at least 2 years before VK_EXT_mutable_descriptor_type was added;
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Vulkan-1.3.228-Released
https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMDVLK-2023.Q2.2
The Vulkan bits that allow VKD3D/DXVK to use AMDs programmable descriptors were added by Valves Joshua Ashton and Hans-Kristian Arntzen. YEARS after the translations projects were created, and YEARS after Vulkan launched. Mantel couldn't do shit with AMDs programable descriptors... it was essentially a forgotten oddity of AMDs arch. Even in windows AMDs driver implements DX12 descriptors as a fake buffer for Windows sake.
https://www.gfxstrand.net/faith/blog/2022/08/descriptors-are-hard/
Good read if you have the time. Interestingly NVs hardware despite DX12 basically being written for it isn't really ideal in windows either. (not that its hurting them... its just not as elegent as AMD and even Intels implementation)
I've come around a little on the AI helping with Linux stuffs.
I think its still a good idea that you at least generally understand the scripts a AI might create for you.
As long as you understand basic scripting though ya it can be a time saver.
I quizzed grok a little while ago, getting it to make me scripts I had already created like ones I used to start and stop my SMB shares and such. Pretty much nailed them... honestly cleaner then mine were. Also had it create a bunch of udev rules for me for various things and it didn't screw anything up really. Still wouldn't trust it with anything super critical. I could see it being a big help for new people though, even if they just use it to explain terms and options they don't fully understand. Distros like Arch have great documentation but finding the right documentation for someone that has no idea what they are looking for could be a pita I guess.
I'm not arguing this point anymore Chad. Nvidia was involved with Vulkan after it was gifted as Mantle from AMD to the Khronos Group, so quite obviously AMD's involvement with Mantle before it became Vulkan pre dates Nvidia's involvement with Mantle after it formed the basis for Vulkan.I know we have argued back and forth on the whole mantel thing. NO NVIDIA is not at a disadvantage cause the OpenGL people accepted the abandoned Mantel as a starting place to build Vulkan. Nvidia was involved in Vulkan FROM day -730. Nvidia had a WORKING Vulkan Driver on the Day Vulkan launched... AMD DID NOT.
The programmable descriptors on AMD cards were NOT Employed in anyway shape or form any differently on Mantel then they are on DX. In fact DXVK did NOT have support for AMDs programmable descriptor for FIVE YEARS! VKD3D existed for at least 2 years before VK_EXT_mutable_descriptor_type was added;
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Vulkan-1.3.228-Released
https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMDVLK-2023.Q2.2
The Vulkan bits that allow VKD3D/DXVK to use AMDs programmable descriptors were added by Valves Joshua Ashton and Hans-Kristian Arntzen. YEARS after the translations projects were created, and YEARS after Vulkan launched. Mantel couldn't do shit with AMDs programable descriptors... it was essentially a forgotten oddity of AMDs arch. Even in windows AMDs driver implements DX12 descriptors as a fake buffer for Windows sake.
https://www.gfxstrand.net/faith/blog/2022/08/descriptors-are-hard/
Good read if you have the time. Interestingly NVs hardware despite DX12 basically being written for it isn't really ideal in windows either. (not that its hurting them... its just not as elegent as AMD and even Intels implementation)
I know we have argued back and forth on the whole mantel thing. NO NVIDIA is not at a disadvantage cause the OpenGL people accepted the abandoned Mantel as a starting place to build Vulkan. Nvidia was involved in Vulkan FROM day -730. Nvidia had a WORKING Vulkan Driver on the Day Vulkan launched... AMD DID NOT.And yet in most benchmarks, considering comparable GPU's from each relevant manufacturer, Nvidia is just as fast if not faster than AMD. Furthermore, Nvidia have the upper hand regarding RT.
As stated, I'm not interested in argueing this point anymore. If you want to believe there's no Mantle left under Vulkan, if you want to believe a timeline that doesn't add up considering SGPR's, Mantle and AMD hardware - Go right ahead, it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
I class you as an online Friend Chad, lets let bygones be bygones and agree to disagree.
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We are and we can disagree, and agree to disagree. lolAs stated, I'm not interested in argueing this point anymore. If you want to believe there's no Mantle left under Vulkan, if you want to believe a timeline that doesn't add up considering SGPR's, Mantle and AMD hardware - Go right ahead, it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
I class you as an online Friend Chad, lets let bygones be bygones and agree to disagree.
On this one though you are 100% wrong.
AMD abandoned Mantel (in fact if I remember correctly the people that created it at AMD were part of a round of layoffs).Vulkan by the time it launched a couple years after AMDS donation of the mantel framework only really reatained a few basic ideas.
As I say go look it up Nvidia had working Vulkan drivers half a year before AMD. AMD didn't even bother to write their own Vulkan driver for months after Vulkan released. Nvidia did more development work on Vulkan then AMD did.
I'm not defending AMD here I'm saying they were, frankly to broke and stripped down to make mantel work. NV was always friendly with the OpenGL people, I mean even then they were the big driver of OpenGL stuff... Quatro cards were the market leader in workstation cards.
AMDs mutable descriptor hardware was all but forgotten by everyone including AMD for the most part. Their windows driver has a basic bit of code that coverts things into a descriptor buffer like DX is expecting to see and that is it., their Vulkan driver did the same. No one at AMD ever thought about translation of API headers... for even one second. Philip Rebohle the developer of DXVK didn't even know it was a thing. As I understand it it was Hans-Kristian Arntzen who realized the way the descriptor hardware was setup they might be able to do something with it.... which follows as he is one of the RADV developers. Once AMD open sourced Radeon driver code someone (probably Hans) put two and two together. They bodged some out of tree API calls to do it... and got it mainlined into the Vulkan libraries once it worked well. No ONE from AMD was involved, I doubt anyone at AMD would have even thought to suggest it.
Someone around 20 or so years ago at AMD added programable descriptors at a time when everyone used buffers. Not for gamers. But for heterogenous compute. Everyone at that point thought opencl was going to be the way forward, and all big iron type compute would be done via opencl and use clusters of CPUs and GPUs working on the exact same workloads. In that case having malibale descriptors of everything in Vram would be a HUGE bandwidth saving. Of course we all know no one is actually doing that. The hardware remains and AMD has just left it be for like 7 or 8 generations of cards since. That it works well for translating DX->Vulkan was just a quirk discovered by Valve.
littlegreenmenfromhome
Limp Gawd
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No, it depends if you have AMD or NIDIVA hardware. and with NVIDIA having a +75% market share on PC, the fact still remain:
Linux will cost the majority of users between 5-50% performanc loss.
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Single AMD Rx6800... Mint Linux or CachyOS multiple monitors works fine and have for the last 3+ years linux has been my main OS.. WIndows 7 worked fine with multiple displays as did 8/10 as well?
I do use Plasma though...
No different then windows? Open display config and arrange them how you want
I'm seeing a 10% loss at most here, I'm certainly not seeing a 50% loss, and I'm running two Nvidia based Linux systems meaning I'm sure I'm not just lucky. My experience is honestly faultless and performance is adequate. Even the Catzilla benchmark results under the Linux gaming forum show that the difference comparing CrimsonKnight13's 7900XT to my 4070S is only 8.5%, and most of that could very well be due to the fact CrimsonKnight13 is running CachyOS as opposed to myself running KDE Neon.
It's an ideal comparison as both cards are fairly evenly matched in terms of performance.
CrimsonKnight 1440p Ryzen 9 7900x @ 5.6GHz, 64GB DDR5 6000MHz, 7900XT:
Mazzspeed 1440p 10940x @ all core 4.8GHz, 30mV undervolt, 32GB DDR4 3600MHz quad channel, RTX 4070S:
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littlegreenmenfromhome
Limp Gawd
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The majority have NVIDIA hardware and there the result is quite different:
View: https://youtu.be/RmP_Q_Mfosk?si=3tcwT3glXwzdi6Uq
You answer makes sense zero as a reply to me it is like you cannot read +75% of users (those that have NVIDIA hardware) will lose 5-50% performance and go away with your fallacy of trying to compare you AMD hardware with your NVIDIA since the only thing that matter is this:
Crimson Desert - 4070 Super - FPS Windows: ???
Crimson Desert - 4070 Super - FPS Linux: ???
The more you post and try and avoid that simple fact there more dishonest you seem to be.
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Like a broken record this guy....
littlegreenmenfromhome
Limp Gawd
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More more than the broken record of denying facts.
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Not a long enough ban last time?
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The new "bottom bar" defaulting to "center"(Windows 11) was a nod to ... everything is a singular wide monitor trend (or better put, Microsoft believed this would be the standard everywhere).
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Sure, maybe accurate as of right now this very second, but trends are shifting. Now what? How does getting stuck on this that help solve anything for you or anyone specifically? Does everybody care as long as it's playable at decent stable frame rates at their desired resolution? As things shift, do you believe in Nvidia will continue to not optimize Linux support?
Valve and the Linux community continue to optimize things and it's moving faster than it ever has.
(IDGAF that these aren't Nvidia-specific examples)
View: https://youtu.be/kGhQAFEs_Eo
What about this specifically gives you such a hard-on that we should care about, but are apparently not caring enough about your erection?
Tldr- why should we care the way you care?
ChadD, Mazzspeed
Just gonna pop my head in here, you are both correct...
Kronos was working on Vulkan, while AMD was working on Mantle, while Microsoft was working on DX12, while Apple was working on Metal.
All were happening around each other, and all were borrowing from each other all the time, as each was working with major game engine developers at the time.
Mantle was primarily written and speced out by Johan Andersson at DICE, but at the same time, Khronos pulled Aras P at Unity, Niklas S at Epic, and a couple of guys at Valve into the project for Vulkan; all of them were talking amongst themselves on their respective projects.
Mantle was designed specifically around console usage and was very limited in scope, but it had some very good optimizations in place for keeping CPU usage low. It was incredibly optimized towards the GCN 1.0 and 1.1 architecture, and it served more as a guide on how to best build an API for consoles.
DICE was also working with Microsoft on the DX12 specifications, as the upcoming Xbox was going to be using it, and Battlefield was one of the flagship release titles.
It's worth noting that AMD and Nvidia were very involved with the DX12 development process, but AMD was a very small company at that time.
So if you are wondering why Nvidia had drivers for Vulkan first, even though AMD was involved very early in Vulkan and had their work on Mantle to fall back on, it's because Nvidia, like Intel, had massive GPU driver divisions, and they could work on their drivers for Vulkan and DX12 at the same time.
AMD certainly was an integral part of designing the specification (Roughly 80% of it). But AMD did not have a large enough driver team to meet their obligations for Xbox and DX12, while also getting Vulkan drivers done. AMD could not afford to delay anything Xbox-related, as it was essentially keeping them from declaring bankruptcy at the time, so AMD rightfully prioritized their Microsoft agreements, and once those were met, only then did they work on their Vulkan drivers.
The news says "AMD gifted Mantle to Kronos", that was a fun headline thing to put AMD in the news in a positive light, as almost every article about them at the time was about how they were fighting off forced buyouts.
The reality is that Mantle was a limited-scope proof of concept, developed by a small team as a side project to show what consoles could be capable of, while that same team also worked on Vulkan, and also worked on DX12.
Many of those developers would go on later to give interviews on why they preferred their work with Vulkan over DX12, as they took opposite approaches.
DX12 has a clean front end with a back end that hides the nitty-gritty, which makes it much harder to optimize or troubleshoot, but easy to start.
Vulkan has a messy front end with a very clean back end that makes it harder to start, but much easier to optimize and troubleshoot.
Just gonna pop my head in here, you are both correct...
Kronos was working on Vulkan, while AMD was working on Mantle, while Microsoft was working on DX12, while Apple was working on Metal.
All were happening around each other, and all were borrowing from each other all the time, as each was working with major game engine developers at the time.
Mantle was primarily written and speced out by Johan Andersson at DICE, but at the same time, Khronos pulled Aras P at Unity, Niklas S at Epic, and a couple of guys at Valve into the project for Vulkan; all of them were talking amongst themselves on their respective projects.
Mantle was designed specifically around console usage and was very limited in scope, but it had some very good optimizations in place for keeping CPU usage low. It was incredibly optimized towards the GCN 1.0 and 1.1 architecture, and it served more as a guide on how to best build an API for consoles.
DICE was also working with Microsoft on the DX12 specifications, as the upcoming Xbox was going to be using it, and Battlefield was one of the flagship release titles.
It's worth noting that AMD and Nvidia were very involved with the DX12 development process, but AMD was a very small company at that time.
So if you are wondering why Nvidia had drivers for Vulkan first, even though AMD was involved very early in Vulkan and had their work on Mantle to fall back on, it's because Nvidia, like Intel, had massive GPU driver divisions, and they could work on their drivers for Vulkan and DX12 at the same time.
AMD certainly was an integral part of designing the specification (Roughly 80% of it). But AMD did not have a large enough driver team to meet their obligations for Xbox and DX12, while also getting Vulkan drivers done. AMD could not afford to delay anything Xbox-related, as it was essentially keeping them from declaring bankruptcy at the time, so AMD rightfully prioritized their Microsoft agreements, and once those were met, only then did they work on their Vulkan drivers.
The news says "AMD gifted Mantle to Kronos", that was a fun headline thing to put AMD in the news in a positive light, as almost every article about them at the time was about how they were fighting off forced buyouts.
The reality is that Mantle was a limited-scope proof of concept, developed by a small team as a side project to show what consoles could be capable of, while that same team also worked on Vulkan, and also worked on DX12.
Many of those developers would go on later to give interviews on why they preferred their work with Vulkan over DX12, as they took opposite approaches.
DX12 has a clean front end with a back end that hides the nitty-gritty, which makes it much harder to optimize or troubleshoot, but easy to start.
Vulkan has a messy front end with a very clean back end that makes it harder to start, but much easier to optimize and troubleshoot.
littlegreenmenfromhome
Limp Gawd
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Why do you keep posting AMD cards (the minority of users) what is it about the sentence you are unable to understand?:
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
If its get repeated 10 times does it compute?
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
For the MAJORITY of users (+75% as those that have NVIDIA hardware) they will lose 5-50% performance.
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Ok moving on.
This is the way.
- Status