Gideon
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,178
That can just sit there right on their shelf collecting dust at that price. If a company is that dumb to buy ram at that price, than they deserve to go bankrupt chasing the AI bubble.
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It's still a crazy price but MC also has similar TeamGroup ram (128GB of ddr5-6400) for $1499.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall.How? By recounting the highs and lows of the computer market over the years? By implying 32gb of ram for 300 dollars is better than out of stock video cards, or them being 2x the price from scalpers? Then there is Thailand floods, Taiwan earthquakes, and other events that have impacted prices in the past. Duke is right, in that it isn't sustainable, and eventually this will be a phase, just like the problems of the past. If you are going to blame anyone, I would point the finger at dram manufacturing for not expanding. They applied lessons learned from the mining crash, but applied them to an expanding market. You also have to understand, big industrial players got screwed as well. Should we blame AI, when dram manufactures decided not to expand, when they could have? No one is benefiting from the shift in prices, except those making the chips. Do you think server farms related to AI want to pay 6x the price of what they were?
I always wonder who the customer base is when you see crap like this. Are there actual people going into stores and buying $4200 kits? Businesses that need it to make money probably aren't walking into Microcenter (or whatever this place is) to buy computer stuff like this. Gotta say, the security level of that place has to be through the roof when you have display cases like this with maybe a quarter to half a million dollars "worth" of product
As mentioned... yes we are thinking. And now we're getting slapped in the face (hard) by the age old capitalistic process of "If I'm willing to pay more than you, you don't get any"It is interesting you all talk about DRAM prices but stop and consider what AI is doing to Energy as well as water prices.
Then I will say it plainly. You are being sensational and entitled. There are plenty of affordable options out there, and all run cloud based LLMs just fine. There are also plenty of options for under 1k that can do local LLMs and gaming just fine. You just want pro performance for a budget in a field with low inventory and high demand...I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
No, I'm not. You're being delusional and ignoring reality. You're also just flagrantly lying. You're not going to gaslight anywhere in here, no matter how much you want to. This entire thread is literally the antithesis of the gaslighting you're failing to do. But you do you.Then I will say it plainly. You are being sensational and entitled. There are plenty of affordable options out there, and all run cloud based LLMs just fine. There are also plenty of options for under 1k that can do local LLMs and gaming just fine. You just want pro performance for a budget in a field with low inventory and high demand...
What have I said that is untrue?No, I'm not. You're being delusional and ignoring reality. You're also just flagrantly lying. You're not going to gaslight anywhere in here, no matter how much you want to. This entire thread is literally the antithesis of the gaslighting you're failing to do. But you do you.
they are going for long term contracts — baking in the prices at the peak of the cycle nowI’m worried that even if the rumored 40% purchase of ram by OpenAI falls through, these ram manufacturers are going to just not manufacture or release that supply, given they can charge so much more now.
They have no incentive, since they are making multiple times more per chip now. That would more than make up for selling 40% less chips.
Kinda the problem with the entire market right now. When the AI bubble does pop, the entire market for computer hardware just crashes. DRAM manufacturers aren't stupid as they know not to over produce to prevent such a situation. I still think the market is shifting away from them all together, so who cares. The biggest problem is when companies like Intel only sell CPU's with ram built in. They do this already with Lunar Lake and Panther Lake. We not be able to upgrade out PCs in the future. At least not the affordable computers.I’m worried that even if the rumored 40% purchase of ram by OpenAI falls through, these ram manufacturers are going to just not manufacture or release that supply, given they can charge so much more now.
They have no incentive, since they are making multiple times more per chip now. That would more than make up for selling 40% less chips.
Most of that "40%" was for wafer capacity yet to exist (it was a way to get it built/financed), it is not by OpenAI but an LLC that include MIcrosoft/Softbank/Oracle, they will use it (and/or sell some part to amd-nvidia-meta-amazon-etc...) how much will go to OpenAI is an open question.I’m worried that even if the rumored 40% purchase of ram by OpenAI falls through, these ram manufacturers are going to just not manufacture or release that supply, given they can charge so much more now.
They have no incentive, since they are making multiple times more per chip now. That would more than make up for selling 40% less chips.
That what you think when you see Samsung latest quarter result ? That sound like some no one go to the beach anymore, it is too crowded.I still think the market is shifting away from them all together,
Intel did it only for Lunar Lake, returned to cheaper off-package solution with their yield issues they could not continue to do it, that why they do stuff like this: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...pus-as-generic-intel-graphics-in-task-manager.biggest problem is when companies like Intel only sell CPU's with ram built in. They do this already with Lunar Lake and Panther Lake.
Obviously not right now. AI boom is still booming.That what you think when you see Samsung latest quarter result ? That sound like some no one go to the beach anymore, it is too crowded.
Might explain why their power efficiency is that great. I thought they did the same like with Lunar Lake.Intel did it only for Lunar Lake, returned to cheaper off-package solution with their yield issues they could not continue to do it, that why they do stuff like this: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...pus-as-generic-intel-graphics-in-task-manager.
Their packaging seem elite in term of result when it work for some things, but not apple/tsmc level for the on package memory.
? on package tend to be the most power efficient way to do things, panther lake achieving it despite returning to the cheaper/less efficiant way is impressive.Might explain why their power efficiency is that great. I thought they did the same like with Lunar Lake.
Obviously not right now. AI boom is still booming.
Might explain why their power efficiency is that great. I thought they did the same like with Lunar Lake.
? on package tend to be the most power efficient way to do things, panther lake achieving it despite returning to the cheaper/less efficiant way is impressive.
Intel 18A, ribbonFET and powervia is just really good, lot more cache help reduce the cost of the off package memory has well.
"NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 and 5060 Ti Planned With 9 GB VRAM
by Cpt.Jank Today, 19:33 Discuss (7 Comments)
It was recently revealed that NVIDIA plans to launch a version of the RTX 5050 GPU with 9 GB of VRAM—three 3 GB modules of GDDR7 over a 96-bit bus and 336 GB/s total memory bandwidth. Now, according to a new leak by Hakuitado on the Board Channels forum (via Gazlog), NVIDIA is planning to make the same move with the RTX 5060 and 5060 Ti in order to cater to budget consumers while avoiding high DRAM and BOM costs.
DRAM quantity aside, the move would also see NVIDIA decrease the bus width of the respective cards, going from 128-bit to 96-bit by using new 24 Gbit memory chips, resulting in an overall decrease in bandwidth and reduced memory performance. According to @harakuze5719 on X, the new 9 GB NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 and 5060 Ti GPUs are slated to launch sometime between May and June, with a Computex launch seemingly likely."
Can't install modern AAA games on a 256GB SSD. Maybe one game, but that's about it.“Gamers Will Cut RAM Before Settling for SSDs Smaller Than 512 GB, Lexar Says
by AleksandarK Today, 03:24 Discuss (16 Comments)
During a media tour at Lexar HQ in China, Digital Foundry spoke with Lexar's Europe General Manager, Grace Su, who explained what gamers are buying and where they are willing to compromise. Interestingly, Lexar found that, despite the pricing of DRAM and NAND Flash, users could purchase lower-capacity RAM kits without issues, while SSDs with capacities lower than 512 GB weren't selling well. Although this is not a direct comparison, when building a new PC system, you need both a RAM kit and an SSD. Based on their budget, enthusiasts often have to decide between a larger SSD or a bigger RAM kit. However, Lexar reports that users are so committed to having larger SSD space that they are even willing to revert to HDDs rather than buy an SSD smaller than 512 GB. This is understandable, considering that modern games can take up hundreds of gigabytes of space.
Currently, high RAM prices are driving PC gamers to invest considerably more in their gaming rigs to play smoothly. As 16 GB is somewhat considered the minimum for a Windows 11 system, some games and tasks are so demanding that PC DIY enthusiasts need to invest in 32 GB kits at prices that were unimaginable just a year ago. For example, we reported on the DDR4 spot market pricing, which saw the cost of a single 16 Gb module increase by about 2,200% over the past year, with only a minor 5% correction in March. We can only hope for more corrections soon so that PC gamers can finally see signs of relief, but with AI demand projected to continue rising, that seems far from reality.“
even with compression?Can't install modern AAA games on a 256GB SSD. Maybe one game, but that's about it.
There is a ton more of this that can be done, and maybe it will be now that it starts making financial sense. Optimization is not a sexy word that any corporate manager wants to hear about.“Valve Engineer Improves Linux Memory Management for GPUs with 8 GB VRAM or Less
by AleksandarK Today, 02:16 Discuss (8 Comments)
Valve's Linux developer, Natalie Vock, has introduced a new method for handling memory management on GPUs with 8 GB or less VRAM. Since a large part of the gaming community uses systems with limited resources, improving performance and VRAM allocation is an excellent way to maximize frames per second. According to Vock's solution, GPUs with 8 GB of VRAM or less on Linux will now benefit from better background VRAM management, allowing more free space for games. Several Linux kernel patches have been submitted to guide how Linux manages resources when a game is loaded. Previously, when a game used too much VRAM on a low-VRAM GPU, the Linux Graphics Translation Table (GTT) would move data to system RAM to prevent the game from crashing. Since Linux doesn't prioritize programs, it could sometimes move the actual game from VRAM to system RAM to make space for something like a browser or another third-party app.
In Vock's testing before these new patches, running Cyberpunk 2077 resulted in the system using only 6 GB of the 8 GB of available GPU VRAM, with about 1.37 GB spilling over to GTT and being allocated in system RAM. This could lead to game stuttering and frame-pacing issues. Now, Vock has developed a real-time dmemcg-booster, which stands for Device Memory Control Groups, to inform Linux when a program running on the GPU VRAM needs to stay there without being moved to GTT and then to system RAM. With the new patch, running Cyberpunk 2077 now uses almost the entire available system VRAM, reaching 7.4 GB, while GTT allocation has been reduced to 650 MB, cutting usage by more than half. In the picture below, you can check the "GameThread" behavior before and after the patch is applied.”
There is a ton more of this that can be done, and maybe it will be now that it starts making financial sense. Optimization is not a sexy word that any corporate manager wants to hear about.
The irony is that with AI code we can expect to see tons more spectacularly non-optimized code.
Unless you're Ubisoft.Requires exceptional (aka expensive) depth and breadth of knowledge and experience (in the human) to know where to look and what to do.
You laugh but it is going to happen within 10 years.Hello Cloud based games again !!!![]()
It might - it might not - but either way 10 years of laughter is worth the priceYou laugh but it is going to happen within 10 years.
I don't think compression is going to help here. For a while we've seen games with install sizes bigger than 200GB. I hate to imagine what World of Warcraft install would be with classic and retail. Good thing I never touch retail.even with compression?
Texture compression tools like Intel Texture Set Neural Compression would be a great idea, given that it wasn't favoring Intel hardware. It can work on AMD and Nvidia hardware, but obviously optimized for Intel. We need an industry standard for this so that we can finally have games that don't take up hundreds of gigs. Also, audio is becoming an issue as it's taking up a lot of space. Titalfall from 2014 has 35GB just for audio. We could also go back to have music that's generated on the fly which not only reduces file sizes but also brings back seamless audio transitions. A technology that was around since 1990 and was lost to time. That's not true, Nintendo still does it.The only hope is AI optimizing tools that do it all automagically and I don't that would even fix it.
Almost no one cares about optimization enough to make it a priority. If it isn't a priority the game won't be optimized. With games it's extremely easy to kill performance with one line of code or one asset. It's also easy for performance to slowly degrade as more code and assets get added to the game.
There are actually a lot of good performance tools, even free tools built into engines but people just ignore them because performance is not a priority. Even with all the tools and all the free knowledge out there the majority of game still aren't optimized for good performance. So I don't think AI is going to magically fix this.
I heard this 10 years ago.You laugh but it is going to happen within 10 years.
I've got zram enabled on both of my systems. On the 16GB system it may make a little difference, on the 32GB system I can't really notice much of a change TBH.“Reminder to enable ZRAM on Linux to optimize RAM usage.https://cnx-software.com/2026/04/15/reminder-enable-zram-on-your-linux-system-to-optimize-ram-usage/With the price of RAM getting out of control, it might be a good idea to enable ZRAM with zstd compression on your Linux machine before a potentially expensive upgrade. It's also a consideration when purchasing a Raspberry Pi or other SBC, although ZRAM is often enabled by default, for instance, on Raspberry Pi OS.”