Apple intros MacBook Neo: $599 with an iPhone chip

Aurelius · Apr 7, 2026

ivandagiant said:
I mean I've been recommending macbooks over windows laptops ever since M2 at this point (was a bit wary of M1, turned out good though). Not surprised, Windows and x86 has been snoozing for years.

I did not expect the low price point of the Neo though. Seriously what a great machine for students.

It was somewhat understandable before as Apple had largely carved out the premium space for itself, and in the Windows market it's harder to differentiate outside of price (there are some truly awesome machines, to be sure).

The Neo's price is the result of a few very unique factors. Apple not only makes nearly the entire stack (design, key chips, software), it has tremendous clout in the supply chain. Apple can ask for 10 million A18 Pro chips and have little trouble getting them at a cost that ensures a $599 standard retail price for a long time. Virtually no other brand, not even Samsung, has that luxury. They have to talk to AMD, Intel, or Qualcomm for processors (and that's assuming they don't need a dedicated GPU). They have to hope Microsoft has their best interests at heart. And they have far fewer component price guarantees, to the point where ASUS is warning that prices could climb by 25% to 30% this quarter.

It's going to be wild if college students end up buying $499 Neos because the comparable Windows models suddenly cost $100 or $200 more. I'm also expecting Apple to offer a back-to-school promo over the summer, although it's likely to be conservative (say, $50 off AirPods or other accessories). Again, I don't expect a giant sea change in the market — just a tangible gain in Mac market share and reactions from PC vendors who rarely competed directly with Apple.

Nicklebon · Apr 7, 2026

Aurelius said:
Again, I don't expect a giant sea change in the market — just a tangible gain in Mac market share and reactions from PC vendors who rarely competed directly with Apple.

This ^^^ x100. I have several very close friends at one of the big players and the panic is real.

Aurelius · Apr 7, 2026

Nicklebon said:
This ^^^ x100. I have several very close friends at one of this big players and the panic is real.

Interesting! I won't ask which brand, but I've heard this multiple times online in addition to ASUS' on-the-record concerns.

This is a rare moment for Apple. There have been only a handful of situations where Apple disrupted the mainstream computer market, most notably the Apple II, original iMac, and second-gen MacBook Air. There were few straight-up copies, but you could see the industry pivoting in real time (see the wave of "ultrabooks" in the early 2010s). I'm expecting at least some brands to put out design-centric budget laptops in response; the question is whether or not they can do that when they likely won't have comparable chips or component pricing.

DukenukemX · Apr 7, 2026

Aurelius said:
This is a rare moment for Apple. There have been only a handful of situations where Apple disrupted the mainstream computer market, most notably the Apple II, original iMac, and second-gen MacBook Air.

That's an interesting list. The Apple II is probably the first home computer. Some would say it's the Altair but really it was the Apple II. The iMac was never copied ever again, even by Apple. Unless you think the iMac was the first all-in-one computer, because it wasn't. Then there's the Macbook Air, which again hasn't been copied either. I'm going by the idea that it's fanless because I can't figure out what feature that makes the Macbook Air desirable? It's not even the thinnest laptop ever made since that belongs to the Acer Swift 7.

View: https://youtu.be/ozOvMNmDxWI?si=vZmJTHe1fC2t4c35

There were few straight-up copies, but you could see the industry pivoting in real time (see the wave of "ultrabooks" in the early 2010s). I'm expecting at least some brands to put out design-centric budget laptops in response; the question is whether or not they can do that when they likely won't have comparable chips or component pricing.

The ultrabook market is essentially dead with Chromebooks left caring the flag. Tablets took over that market. As for expecting the market to copy Apple's Neo, I'm not so sure. The key features of the Neo are better screen and speaker quality. For most people, a standard 1080p screen is just fine. We'll see how the industry reacts if the Neo sells well or not.

Aurelius · Apr 7, 2026

DukenukemX said:
That's an interesting list. The Apple II is probably the first home computer. Some would say it's the Altair but really it was the Apple II. The iMac was never copied ever again, even by Apple. Unless you think the iMac was the first all-in-one computer, because it wasn't. Then there's the Macbook Air, which again hasn't been copied either. I'm going by the idea that it's fanless because I can't figure out what feature that makes the Macbook Air desirable? It's not even the thinnest laptop ever made since that belongs to the Acer Swift 7.

The iMac wasn't the first all-in-one and wasn't copied directly (that I know of), but it did greatly influence turn-of-the-millennium PC design. We went from a sea of beige towers to more colorful (and simply more interesting) machines.

I also have to snicker at claiming that the MacBook Air hasn't been copied. Intel literally coined the term "ultrabook" in 2011 for systems designed to copy the Air: thin-and-light, reasonably speedy systems that frequently used a very similar wedge shape. And remember, the second-gen Air debuted in 2010; it was extremely thin at the time, and the first Swift 7 didn't arrive until 2016.

The Air was and is appealing for a few reasons. It's still one of the thinnest and lightest laptops, and unlike some options doesn't compromise on quality to get there (LG's Gram is notorious for being flimsy). The M-series chips have been genuinely fast for typical users; the lack of a fan isn't vital, but it is nice given that some Windows laptops get noisy if you so much as look at them the wrong way.

DukenukemX said:
The ultrabook market is essentially dead with Chromebooks left caring the flag. Tablets took over that market. As for expecting the market to copy Apple's Neo, I'm not so sure. The key features of the Neo are better screen and speaker quality. For most people, a standard 1080p screen is just fine. We'll see how the industry reacts if the Neo sells well or not.

Ultrabooks arel very common; they're just not called that anymore as the concept is no longer novel or difficult to achieve. Neither Chromebooks nor tablets are meant to directly compete in that space (not even the iPad Pro).

The Neo is about more than the screen and speakers. It's about overall design (both quality and looking much better than a generic gray slab). And whatever you think of the A18 Pro, it's the ace in the hole: it lets Apple sell the system for $599 while maintaining that design, and in the current market could save Apple from the price hikes its competitors are facing.

It's true that a 1080p screen is fine, and I'm not expecting to see much direct competition on that front. Rather it's that you could see more design-conscious budget laptops and other efforts to raise the baseline in the Windows world. And we just noted that ASUS and other vendors are genuinely worried, even if they're likely to take "wait and see" approaches.

Gigantopithecus · Apr 7, 2026

I borrowed a student's Neo for a couple days and my initial, bottom-line take is that it is more than adequate on every front (i.e., screen, keyboard, hardware capability) to do my basic content creation work (e.g., editing Office 365 documents, creating smaller-size 3D models and animating them, editing larger image files for use in PowerPoint, etc.). I don't know of a Windows-based laptop that offers comparable quality that is as cheap, given I have Apple's always-helpful education discount.

I will likely replace all of the laptops in my lab with Neos during the next upgrade cycle, which will be at the start of the next academic year in a few months.

DukenukemX · Apr 7, 2026

Aurelius said:
The iMac wasn't the first all-in-one and wasn't copied directly (that I know of), but it did greatly influence turn-of-the-millennium PC design. We went from a sea of beige towers to more colorful (and simply more interesting) machines.

The modern PC is basically a tower of RGB mess. Doubt Apple influenced that.

Also, beige boxes...

I also have to snicker at claiming that the MacBook Air hasn't been copied. Intel literally coined the term "ultrabook" in 2011 for systems designed to copy the Air: thin-and-light, reasonably speedy systems that frequently used a very similar wedge shape. And remember, the second-gen Air debuted in 2010; it was extremely thin at the time, and the first Swift 7 didn't arrive until 2016.

The ultrabook was Intel's response but like many ideas from Apple, it quickly died. Turns out, making something super thin will thermal throttle.

The Air was and is appealing for a few reasons. It's still one of the thinnest and lightest laptops, and unlike some options doesn't compromise on quality to get there (LG's Gram is notorious for being flimsy). The M-series chips have been genuinely fast for typical users; the lack of a fan isn't vital, but it is nice given that some Windows laptops get noisy if you so much as look at them the wrong way.

The modern Macbook Air's have no fans, and will thermal throttle. Which is strange since older Intel based Air's had fans. I never understood the appeal of a laptop without a fan that just thermal throttles after a minute of heavy use. We've seen laptops with quiet fans that don't thermal throttle. It's just that Windows laptops generally don't care and put in jet engine fans.

Ultrabooks arel very common; they're just not called that anymore as the concept is no longer novel or difficult to achieve. Neither Chromebooks nor tablets are meant to directly compete in that space (not even the iPad Pro).

That's because tablets have also failed. The Neo is basically an iPhone/iPad chip that's now in laptop. The Neo is basically an iPad with a built in keyboard running MacOS.

The Neo is about more than the screen and speakers. It's about overall design (both quality and looking much better than a generic gray slab).

Build quality is yet to be seen. I do wonder how well those SSD's will hold up over time with only 8GB of ram? Hopefully the screen holds up better than the M1 + M2 Macbook screens.

And whatever you think of the A18 Pro, it's the ace in the hole: it lets Apple sell the system for $599 while maintaining that design, and in the current market could save Apple from the price hikes its competitors are facing.

It also pushed Apple to limit the Neo to 8GB. There are things about the Neo that make me go hmm. Like why remove one GPU core from the A18 Pro? It's only found in the Neo, and not the iPhones it was used in. Also no heatsink, which again makes no sense when a laptop could easily afford a slab of aluminum to cool it down? These just seem like deliberate limitations meant to hold back the A18 Pro. Benchmarks like Cinebench and Geekbench which typically only last a minute will not typically show the cooling limitation of the Neo. The A18 Pro is just bad chip and nobody sees this because there's always excuses for its shortcomings.

It's true that a 1080p screen is fine, and I'm not expecting to see much direct competition on that front. Rather it's that you could see more design-conscious budget laptops and other efforts to raise the baseline in the Windows world. And we just noted that ASUS and other vendors are genuinely worried, even if they're likely to take "wait and see" approaches.

Vendors are worried because Apple has mind share. It's like Sony from the 90's where everyone thought Sony made the best products, no matter what. I still stick with Just Josh's review in that this is a bad laptop to go with. I don't think it's bad for schools because this does seem like it's made to take a beating, as this will be in the hands of many children. I think Windows laptop manufacturers will respond with making laptops with aluminum housing instead of plastic. That and more pressure towards Microsoft to stop enshitification with Windows 11. The main appeal of the Neo is that it isn't using Windows 11. Windows 11 is just that bad right now.

erek · Apr 7, 2026

Aurelius said:
I'll be frank: Apple just shook up the laptop market with the MacBook Neo.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3SIKAmPXY4

We knew it was going to have an iPhone chip (the A18 Pro from the iPhone 16 Pro), and that this would bring limitations: 8GB of RAM, two USB-C ports (one of them is USB 2!), no MagSafe. But it also starts at $599, at the low end of what people were expecting. That's huge given the current memory crisis, And you get some things you just don't find elsewhere in this price class, like a high-res display, a high-quality design, and actually-good input.

Apple claims the A18 Pro outruns the Core Ultra 5 chips that tend to ship in similar Windows laptops. We'll see. But I've done some early comparison shopping, and Apple is at least in the running. You can get systems with larger screens, more memory, and more storage, but there's usually big catches that come straight out of the "yes, but" meme. Hey, there's a larger screen, and it's touch! Yes, but... it's a poor-quality 1080p panel. There's 16GB of RAM! Yes, but it's attached to a first-gen Core Ultra chip. You get 512GB in the base model! Yes, but it's stuffed into a cheap chassis with a lousy keyboard.

The Neo isn't aimed at us. It's meant for the college student ($499 in education, by the way) who wants a laptop for writing reports. It's meant for the everyday person who's wanted a Mac but could never rationalize a $999 MacBook Air. And yes, we all know who Apple is mainly targeting: the person browsing the aisles at Best Buy who would never have even considered a Mac laptop because it was simply wasn't in their price range.

I'm not expecting Apple to suddenly double its market share, but this could seriously cut into sales of similarly-priced Windows machines. That'd be good news as it'd force the likes of Acer, Dell, and HP to up their game and care about design as much as they do price.

"Rumor Tips A19 Pro SoC and 12 GB RAM for Apple MacBook Neo

by Cpt.Jank Today, 18:32 Discuss (0 Comments)
The Apple MacBook Neo has been a bit of a shock to system in the laptop world, thanks to its low barrier to entry and surprisingly solid performance for everyday tasks. However, one of the biggest criticisms levelled against the MacBook Neo is its mobile A18 Pro chip and limited 8 GB of RAM. According to recent rumors, though, Apple may upgrade the internals in the MacBook Neo in 2027, bumping it up to an A19 Pro, which is the SoC featured in the latest iPhone 17 Pro smartphones.

The A19 Pro is still a mobile SoC, and it is slated to use the same 5-core GPU configuration as the A18 Pro in the current MacBook Neo, but that SoC upgrade also means that the MacBook Neo would no longer be limited to just 8 GB of LPDDR5X. Instead, as the rumors suggest, the MacBook Neo 2027 will see a 50% memory increase to 12 GB total memory. So far, the MacBook Neo seems to have been such a hit in sales that the Cupertino giant has already started increasing production of the laptop."

erek · Apr 7, 2026

“Apple Faces 'Massive Dilemma' With Success of the MacBook Neo

BeauHD 37 minutes ago

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Apple may have a supply problem on its hands with the MacBook Neo... The laptop reportedly relies on "binned" A18 Pro chips with one GPU core disabled, and demand is so strong that the supply of those cheaper leftover chips could run out before the next model is ready. That leaves Apple choosing between lower margins, shifting production plans, or changing the lineup to keep its $599 hit product in stock. MacRumors reports: The all-new MacBook Neo has been such a hit that Apple is facing a "massive dilemma," according to Taiwan-based tech columnist and former Bloomberg reporter Tim Culpan. [...] In the latest edition of his Culpium newslettertoday, Culpan said the MacBook Neo is selling so well that Apple's supply of the binned A18 Pro chips with a 5-core GPU will "run out" before the company is able to fully satisfy demand for the laptop. Apple's initial plan was to have suppliers build around five to six million MacBook Neo units before ceasing production of the model with the A18 Pro chip, he said, but it sounds like demand is so strong that Apple might run out of A18 Pro chips to put in the MacBook Neo before the second-generation MacBook Neo with an A19 Pro chip is ready next year. Apple is unlikely to mark the MacBook Neo as temporarily sold out, so it may be forced to take action, but profit margins might be affected.

A18 Pro chips are manufactured with TSMC's second-generation 3nm process, known as N3E, and Culpan said TSMC's N3E production lines are currently operating at maximum capacity. As a result, he said that Apple may have to pay a premium to restart A18 Pro chip production for the MacBook Neo, which would lower its profit margins. Apple would have to disable a GPU core on these chips to ensure that they have only a 5-core GPU, like all other MacBook Neo units sold to date. Alternatively, Culpan said that Apple could reallocate some of its chip production that was originally planned for other devices, but he said the cost would still be higher than what it paid for its initial batch of A18 Pro chips.

Culpan speculated that Apple could also opt to discontinue the $599 model with 256GB of storage, leaving the $699 model with 512GB of storage and a Touch ID button as the only configuration available. This is unlikely to happen any time soon, in our view, given how heavily Apple has been promoting the MacBook Neo's affordability. Apple might also be able to move up the release of a MacBook Neo with the iPhone 17 Pro's A19 Pro chip, but that too would be a costlier option, at least until the company achieves a sufficient stockpile of binned A19 Pro chips with a 5-core GPU. In any case, Apple could opt to keep the starting price of current and future MacBook Neo models at $599 and simply accept lower profit margins on the laptop, especially given that it attracts customers to the macOS and broader Apple ecosystem.”

uOpt · Apr 8, 2026

But how do you fit all your Linux and FreeBSD VMs?

Aurelius · Apr 8, 2026

DukenukemX said:
The ultrabook was Intel's response but like many ideas from Apple, it quickly died. Turns out, making something super thin will thermal throttle.

It's the template for many modern laptops, you know that, right? They're just not called ultrabooks. (Also ironic when the MacBook Air remains one of the most popular laptops on the planet, and the company co-developed technologies like USB-C and Thunderbolt.)

DukenukemX said:
That's because tablets have also failed. The Neo is basically an iPhone/iPad chip that's now in laptop. The Neo is basically an iPad with a built in keyboard running MacOS.

Tablets didn't fail, they just didn't take over the world like some claimed. And... so? If it works, it works, and it's doing well enough that Apple is both sparking worry among Windows vendors and reportedly raising its own production estimates.

You forget that Apple isn't afraid to either pivot or cannibalize its own lineup. It'll happily sell you a MacBook Neo over an iPad as that still translates to not just a hardware sale, but the likely start of accessory and service sales (AirPods, Apple One...).

DukenukemX said:
It also pushed Apple to limit the Neo to 8GB. There are things about the Neo that make me go hmm. Like why remove one GPU core from the A18 Pro? It's only found in the Neo, and not the iPhones it was used in. Also no heatsink, which again makes no sense when a laptop could easily afford a slab of aluminum to cool it down? These just seem like deliberate limitations meant to hold back the A18 Pro. Benchmarks like Cinebench and Geekbench which typically only last a minute will not typically show the cooling limitation of the Neo. The A18 Pro is just bad chip and nobody sees this because there's always excuses for its shortcomings.

The A18 Pro in the Neo is a binned part — that is, it's a chip with a GPU core that didn't work. It's part of why Apple can sell the Neo so cheaply, as it was possibly sitting on a stockpile of those parts and won't have to pay quite so much when it needs more.

Again, I don't think there's any sinister plot as to the choice of processor or lack of cooling. The A18 Pro is what enables the price, and the lack of cooling is most likely due to expedience (i.e. wanting to get the Neo out the door in large volumes). Even an aggressively cooled part won't compete with an M4 or M5, so Apple has nothing to fear from making the Neo's chip "too good."

DukenukemX said:
Vendors are worried because Apple has mind share. It's like Sony from the 90's where everyone thought Sony made the best products, no matter what. I still stick with Just Josh's review in that this is a bad laptop to go with. I don't think it's bad for schools because this does seem like it's made to take a beating, as this will be in the hands of many children. I think Windows laptop manufacturers will respond with making laptops with aluminum housing instead of plastic. That and more pressure towards Microsoft to stop enshitification with Windows 11. The main appeal of the Neo is that it isn't using Windows 11. Windows 11 is just that bad right now.

Mind share is part of it, but not the only thing. As you've just indicated yourself, this is a wake-up call: Windows vendors can't just cram old parts into a creaky plastic chassis and consider the job done. They have to put care and craft into even their cheapest models.

And while I respect Josh's reviews greatly and see valid concerns, I think he missed the point and cultural significance of the Neo. I'm reminded of some early iMac reviews: it's doomed because there's no legacy support! There's not enough memory! It's style over substance! But... it's a well-built, stylish, easy to use laptop at a price normally associated with boring or poorly-built designs. It's a breath of fresh air if you're sick of Windows but don't care for Linux (and let's be honest, most people don't) and don't have the money for a MacBook Air.

1_rick · Apr 8, 2026

Aurelius said:
the lack of cooling is most likely due to expedience

Given apple's history of inadequate cooling, this theory is not very believable. It's not as if they don't have decades of experience making laptops with cooling that's not stupid. IIRC about all the Neo is missing is a heat pipe.

Early stories of people adding heat spreaders, which wound up making the bottom heat up, are probably a more likely explanation, although it would probably be hard to be sure without someone moffing in a heat pipe.

Aurelius · Apr 8, 2026

1_rick said:
Given apple's history of inadequate cooling, this theory is not very believable. It's not as if they don't have decades of experience making laptops with cooling that's not stupid. IIRC about all the Neo is missing is a heat pipe.

Early stories of people adding heat spreaders, which wound up making the bottom heat up, are probably a more likely explanation, although it would probably be hard to be sure without someone moffing in a heat pipe.

I just don't think it's a conspiracy, that's all. My theory is that Apple might bring over the iPhone 17 Pro's vapor chamber for the first refresh. It'll be great news if so, although it would also artificially inflate the performance gains.

1_rick · Apr 8, 2026

Aurelius said:
I just don't think it's a conspiracy, that's all.

Fair enough

erek · Apr 8, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/bIeEGeTd5DE?si=hzYSDeiiVgd7_WGs

1_rick · Apr 8, 2026

erek said:
View: https://youtu.be/bIeEGeTd5DE?si=hzYSDeiiVgd7_WGs

I want to upgrade the soldered-down RAM in my Snapdragon laptop. Surely it's possible.

DukenukemX · Apr 8, 2026

Aurelius said:
It's the template for many modern laptops, you know that, right? They're just not called ultrabooks.

That's making a lot of assumptions. Ultrabooks are thin and light, but modern laptops do have good cooling. The creation of heat-pipes and vapor-chambers helped make modern laptops thin and light. Meanwhile Apple is like, fans are optional. With the Neo Apple is like, heatsinks are optional. Technology just got better and you're attributing it to Apple. Apple's willingness to cool a chip is legendary bad.

(Also ironic when the MacBook Air remains one of the most popular laptops on the planet, and the company co-developed technologies like USB-C and Thunderbolt.)

Not because it's thin and light, but because it was the cheapest Macbook. The Neo is now the cheapest. It's probably the reason why Apple crippled the A18 Pro, because they're afraid it could cannibalize Macbook Air sales. Keep in mind early base model M1&M2 Macbooks couldn't even drive more than one external display, while Intel based Macs could. TECHNOLOGIA!

Tablets didn't fail, they just didn't take over the world like some claimed. And... so? If it works, it works, and it's doing well enough that Apple is both sparking worry among Windows vendors and reportedly raising its own production estimates.

Tablets failed and we know they failed because the Neo exists. We all said it was stupid to put M-series chips in iPads with iPadOS, so of course Apple put A-series chips in laptops with MacOS. TECHNOLOGIA!

You forget that Apple isn't afraid to either pivot or cannibalize its own lineup. It'll happily sell you a MacBook Neo over an iPad as that still translates to not just a hardware sale, but the likely start of accessory and service sales (AirPods, Apple One...).

Is that why Apple also hasn't put touchscreens in Macbooks? TECHNOLOGIA!

Again, I don't think there's any sinister plot as to the choice of processor or lack of cooling. The A18 Pro is what enables the price, and the lack of cooling is most likely due to expedience (i.e. wanting to get the Neo out the door in large volumes). Even an aggressively cooled part won't compete with an M4 or M5, so Apple has nothing to fear from making the Neo's chip "too good."

You think Apple with all of it's engineers forgot to cool the A18 Pro? And a binned A18 Pro with one GPU core disabled due to defects? I guarantee you if Apple cooled the A18 Pro and gave it the full GPU cores then the Macbook Air would see massive sales drop. That's not a "you're holding it wrong" moment.

Also, the cost cutting isn't just the A18 Pro. Slower SSD, 8GB ram, slower Wifi, and no backlite keyboard. Things that are pretty much standard in even $600 Windows machines, but Apple makes pretty Aluminum so Neo is better.

Mind share is part of it, but not the only thing. As you've just indicated yourself, this is a wake-up call: Windows vendors can't just cram old parts into a creaky plastic chassis and consider the job done. They have to put care and craft into even their cheapest models.

Don't get me wrong, I like the wake up call to Windows laptop manufacturers. I'm just hoping they don't get the wrong message and start putting in cell phone chips in laptops. Aluminum cases as standard as well as fixing Windows 11 would go a long way. I'm not a fan of plastic, because as plastic ages it starts to crack and get brittle. Had to change the housing of my Sony PSP because of this. Anyone who's ever worked on cars knows that plastic is a nightmare once it has aged.

And while I respect Josh's reviews greatly and see valid concerns, I think he missed the point and cultural significance of the Neo. I'm reminded of some early iMac reviews: it's doomed because there's no legacy support! There's not enough memory! It's style over substance! But... it's a well-built, stylish, easy to use laptop at a price normally associated with boring or poorly-built designs. It's a breath of fresh air if you're sick of Windows but don't care for Linux (and let's be honest, most people don't) and don't have the money for a MacBook Air.

The Neo is a trap for anyone buying them. I do believe they're fine for schools because, again aluminum is going to last longer than plastic. I don't think 8GB of ram with an iPhone chip with zero cooling is going to last long. The best way to look at the Neo is that it's a throw away computer. It's not meant to last long in terms of performance. Nearly ewaste, and I mean that. The only people who think the Neo is a game changer are Apple fanboys who think 8GB of ram is enough for anyone, and that the A18 Pro with no heatsink that dramatically slows down within a minute of heavy use is not a problem, because you're using your Neo wrong. Also, USB 2.0 in 2026.

As much as you like the Neo for it's aesthetics, I can't ever recommend it. The better screen of the Neo is not worth it, especially when you consider the 500 nits will eat the already small battery. There are $600 Windows laptops with aluminum housing, just not 100%. 8GB of ram is not enough, and while I do hate Windows, but I would still rather use Windows over MacOS just for compatibility. Yes Windows sucks but I still want to run my applications. Geekbench and Cinebench don't ever matter, which is why Intel's Lunar Lake chips are fantastically better than the A18 Pro.

Aurelius · Apr 9, 2026

DukenukemX said:
That's making a lot of assumptions. Ultrabooks are thin and light, but modern laptops do have good cooling. The creation of heat-pipes and vapor-chambers helped make modern laptops thin and light. Meanwhile Apple is like, fans are optional. With the Neo Apple is like, heatsinks are optional. Technology just got better and you're attributing it to Apple. Apple's willingness to cool a chip is legendary bad.

Intel developed a custom Core 2 Duo processor for the original MacBook Air that effectively accelerated Intel's roadmap (many features didn't appear in regular chips until nearly a year later) to suit Apple's design. The processors would have eventually come, but Apple was effectively defining the form factor (although it didn't really take off until the second-gen, which finally nailed the formula and spurred Intel's "ultrabook" labelling).

I will agree that Apple's resistance to cooling can be annoying, and can be tied back to Steve Jobs (all the way back to the Apple III). With modern Airs and the Neo it's tolerable as the performance drop isn't sharp for the intended audiences, although I would like the company to at least consider heatsinks.

DukenukemX said:
Not because it's thin and light, but because it was the cheapest Macbook. The Neo is now the cheapest. It's probably the reason why Apple crippled the A18 Pro, because they're afraid it could cannibalize Macbook Air sales. Keep in mind early base model M1&M2 Macbooks couldn't even drive more than one external display, while Intel based Macs could. TECHNOLOGIA!

If it's one of the most popular laptops regardless of platform, that means people are willing to pay extra to get the experience it delivers. We have yet to see if Air sales will drop because of the Neo, or if the Neo will simply add to the overall share.

Apple didn't "cripple" the A18 Pro. Like I've mentioned, it's using binned parts to reduce costs, and even having the original six GPU cores with an exotic cooling setup wouldn't bring it anywhere close to the performance of an M5.

I'm not sure how the original M1/M2 external display limit is even relevant here; it was clearly a limitation of the early architecture, as Apple had no qualms adding multi-display support to the Air over time.

DukenukemX said:
Is that why Apple also hasn't put touchscreens in Macbooks? TECHNOLOGIA!

Apple initially said it didn't think constantly reaching up to the screen made for a good experience, but the more practical answer is that it believes an OS has to be truly touch-friendly for this to work (Windows falls apart outside of specific situations). There's been a steady stream of updates to macOS that suggest touch is coming, and there are now mounting reports that touchscreen MacBook Pros are coming in late 2026 or 2027.

DukenukemX said:
Also, the cost cutting isn't just the A18 Pro. Slower SSD, 8GB ram, slower Wifi, and no backlite keyboard. Things that are pretty much standard in even $600 Windows machines, but Apple makes pretty Aluminum so Neo is better.

The storage, RAM, and Wi-Fi are products of using the A18 Pro. Remember, it's an iPhone chip with on-die memory. Apple would have needed to custom-build an SoC to get more than 8GB, defeating the savings and thus the point.

The Neo is an exercise in deciding what matters most and focusing on that to get a product out the door. Wi-Fi 7 isn't a must-have in a budget laptop at this point, but you will notice a good design and a better-than-usual display. Wi-Fi 7, more RAM, and possibly faster storage will come when the Neo moves to the A19 Pro.

As I pointed out, the original iMac was roasted for spec choices, but succeeded precisely because it solved weak points vendors (including Apple itself) had ignored for years, like design (both functional and cosmetic, hockey puck mouse aside) and ease of use.

DukenukemX said:
The Neo is a trap for anyone buying them. I do believe they're fine for schools because, again aluminum is going to last longer than plastic. I don't think 8GB of ram with an iPhone chip with zero cooling is going to last long. The best way to look at the Neo is that it's a throw away computer. It's not meant to last long in terms of performance. Nearly ewaste, and I mean that. The only people who think the Neo is a game changer are Apple fanboys who think 8GB of ram is enough for anyone, and that the A18 Pro with no heatsink that dramatically slows down within a minute of heavy use is not a problem, because you're using your Neo wrong. Also, USB 2.0 in 2026.

As much as you like the Neo for it's aesthetics, I can't ever recommend it. The better screen of the Neo is not worth it, especially when you consider the 500 nits will eat the already small battery. There are $600 Windows laptops with aluminum housing, just not 100%. 8GB of ram is not enough, and while I do hate Windows, but I would still rather use Windows over MacOS just for compatibility. Yes Windows sucks but I still want to run my applications. Geekbench and Cinebench don't ever matter, which is why Intel's Lunar Lake chips are fantastically better than the A18 Pro.

I wouldn't call it a trap at this stage. It's not the right laptop for some, to be sure. If you're really anxious there's next year's model. And we've seen real-world testing that shows the Neo's battery is solid, just not as impressive as the Air's. The main thing is simply that it gets away with decent longevity despite a considerably smaller capacity.

By your logic, does this make leadership at ASUS and other PC vendors Apple fanboys? They're genuinely concerned about the Neo.

Keep in mind that I'm being pragmatic when I talk about success here. I'm not saying the Neo is the best at everything in its class, just that it's shaking up the category and is apparently selling in droves precisely because of what it does well. That's what frustrates you so much: you want this to be a specs match, but Apple isn't playing that game. The performance will get better — the design was the important part with this first generation.

DukenukemX · Apr 9, 2026

Aurelius said:
Intel developed a custom Core 2 Duo processor for the original MacBook Air that effectively accelerated Intel's roadmap (many features didn't appear in regular chips until nearly a year later) to suit Apple's design. The processors would have eventually come, but Apple was effectively defining the form factor (although it didn't really take off until the second-gen, which finally nailed the formula and spurred Intel's "ultrabook" labelling).

It's clear for a while that Apple was frustrated with Intel and their lack of performance and power efficiency. There's a lot of things that were made for Apple by Intel, like Intel Iris Graphics. Which I loved the crap out of, but rarely saw existence outside of Apple products. Now Intel is king of the hill when it comes to integrated graphics. Competition does crazy things.

I will agree that Apple's resistance to cooling can be annoying, and can be tied back to Steve Jobs (all the way back to the Apple III). With modern Airs and the Neo it's tolerable as the performance drop isn't sharp for the intended audiences, although I would like the company to at least consider heatsinks.

The lack of cooling isn't a mistake by Apple, because cooling means bigger and bulkier housing with noisy fans. Apple just prioritizes silence and esthetics. It works out for them in benchmarks because Geekbench and Cinebench only last a minute which even the fanless heatsinkless Neo would seem to perform well. It just doesn't after a minute.

View: https://youtu.be/TFxqYd_04_k?t=925

If it's one of the most popular laptops regardless of platform, that means people are willing to pay extra to get the experience it delivers. We have yet to see if Air sales will drop because of the Neo, or if the Neo will simply add to the overall share.

The Neo is setup to not effect Air sales, but it's too early to see if it'll have any effect.

Apple didn't "cripple" the A18 Pro. Like I've mentioned, it's using binned parts to reduce costs, and even having the original six GPU cores with an exotic cooling setup wouldn't bring it anywhere close to the performance of an M5.

There are multiple reasons why the A18 Pro is crippled, and the disabled GPU core is just one of them. The lack of a heatsink is more concerning.

Apple initially said it didn't think constantly reaching up to the screen made for a good experience, but the more practical answer is that it believes an OS has to be truly touch-friendly for this to work (Windows falls apart outside of specific situations). There's been a steady stream of updates to macOS that suggest touch is coming, and there are now mounting reports that touchscreen MacBook Pros are coming in late 2026 or 2027.

The point of a touchscreen is to give the laptop similar functionality of a tablet for artists, assuming the screen can be folded back. But for everyone else, the touchscreen is annoying. I sometimes hit the screen of my HP laptop and activate something I didn't intend.

The Neo is an exercise in deciding what matters most and focusing on that to get a product out the door. Wi-Fi 7 isn't a must-have in a budget laptop at this point, but you will notice a good design and a better-than-usual display. Wi-Fi 7, more RAM, and possibly faster storage will come when the Neo moves to the A19 Pro.

That's what I'm afraid of since the industry likes look at Apple and copy their moves. I do prefer most performance over aesthetics when it comes to... everything really. A cell phone chip in a laptop is going to have inherit limitations. Also, the Neo's WiFi isn't slow because it isn't using WiFi 7. It's WiFi 6e is just slower than Windows laptops using WiFi 6e. Though to be fair, Apple's WiFi performance tends to suck compared to Windows laptops anyway.

I wouldn't call it a trap at this stage. It's not the right laptop for some, to be sure. If you're really anxious there's next year's model. And we've seen real-world testing that shows the Neo's battery is solid, just not as impressive as the Air's. The main thing is simply that it gets away with decent longevity despite a considerably smaller capacity.

Considering what I grew up with, I'm Ok with anything that can last up to 5 hours of use. I remember laptops that could barely last 3 hours, and maybe 1 hour of gaming with a performance hit. The Neo is not beating similar priced Windows laptops in battery life. More than respectable for daily use but not a win for the Neo.

Side note, Apple is no longer has the most power efficient chip when it comes to daily use. That honor belongs to Intel now. Apple is still more power efficient under load, and AMD's Strix Halo is still beating Intel's Pander Lake.

By your logic, does this make leadership at ASUS and other PC vendors Apple fanboys? They're genuinely concerned about the Neo.

Wut?

Keep in mind that I'm being pragmatic when I talk about success here. I'm not saying the Neo is the best at everything in its class, just that it's shaking up the category and is apparently selling in droves precisely because of what it does well. That's what frustrates you so much: you want this to be a specs match, but Apple isn't playing that game. The performance will get better — the design was the important part with this first generation.

I'm more concerned the industry tries to sell cell phone chips in Laptops. Though, Microsoft tried this years ago with their Surface X Qualcomm machines and it was trash. Putting in better screens and aluminum housing would be a welcome change for Windows laptops. Fixing Windows 11's problems would be a welcome change. There are too many situations where Apple's ideas would signal other vendors to also implement them because if it works for Apple then it'll work for other manufacturers. I do not like having a phone with no SD card and headphone jack. I also really don't like having a phone without a slide out QWERTY keyboard. The only reason this happened was because Apple was "brave".

Shoganai · Apr 9, 2026

DukenukemX said:
It's clear for a while that Apple was frustrated with Intel and their lack of performance and power efficiency. There's a lot of things that were made for Apple by Intel, like Intel Iris Graphics. Which I loved the crap out of, but rarely saw existence outside of Apple products. Now Intel is king of the hill when it comes to integrated graphics. Competition does crazy things.

The lack of cooling isn't a mistake by Apple, because cooling means bigger and bulkier housing with noisy fans. Apple just prioritizes silence and esthetics. It works out for them in benchmarks because Geekbench and Cinebench only last a minute which even the fanless heatsinkless Neo would seem to perform well. It just doesn't after a minute.

View: https://youtu.be/TFxqYd_04_k?t=925

The Neo is setup to not effect Air sales, but it's too early to see if it'll have any effect.

There are multiple reasons why the A18 Pro is crippled, and the disabled GPU core is just one of them. The lack of a heatsink is more concerning.

The point of a touchscreen is to give the laptop similar functionality of a tablet for artists, assuming the screen can be folded back. But for everyone else, the touchscreen is annoying. I sometimes hit the screen of my HP laptop and activate something I didn't intend.

That's what I'm afraid of since the industry likes look at Apple and copy their moves. I do prefer most performance over aesthetics when it comes to... everything really. A cell phone chip in a laptop is going to have inherit limitations. Also, the Neo's WiFi isn't slow because it isn't using WiFi 7. It's WiFi 6e is just slower than Windows laptops using WiFi 6e. Though to be fair, Apple's WiFi performance tends to suck compared to Windows laptops anyway.

Considering what I grew up with, I'm Ok with anything that can last up to 5 hours of use. I remember laptops that could barely last 3 hours, and maybe 1 hour of gaming with a performance hit. The Neo is not beating similar priced Windows laptops in battery life. More than respectable for daily use but not a win for the Neo.

Side note, Apple is no longer has the most power efficient chip when it comes to daily use. That honor belongs to Intel now. Apple is still more power efficient under load, and AMD's Strix Halo is still beating Intel's Pander Lake.

Wut?
View attachment 796243

I'm more concerned the industry tries to sell cell phone chips in Laptops. Though, Microsoft tried this years ago with their Surface X Qualcomm machines and it was trash. Putting in better screens and aluminum housing would be a welcome change for Windows laptops. Fixing Windows 11's problems would be a welcome change. There are too many situations where Apple's ideas would signal other vendors to also implement them because if it works for Apple then it'll work for other manufacturers. I do not like having a phone with no SD card and headphone jack. I also really don't like having a phone without a slide out QWERTY keyboard. The only reason this happened was because Apple was "brave".
View attachment 796244

You're awfully passionate for someone who is never going to own a Mac.

zandor · Apr 9, 2026

My view of MacOS deteriorated a bit when Tahoe came out. I use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. The new program launcher in Tahoe is straight out Windows 3.1. It's complete and utter trash. The previous version had this sort of Win 7 Win 8 hybrid where you could right click for a menu with all your apps or get the full screen treatment. Tahoe just crams all your apps into a little widow. It looks like Program Manager in Windows 3 from 1990, and works worse. At least Program Manager let you organize stuff into folders. At the end of the day it still works, but I don't get why people think MacOS is so great. MacOS is ok. Windows is ok. Linux is ok. None are perfect. All three are "fine". As in good enough. All of them have a bunch of warts but they work ok and get the job done.

Shoganai · Apr 9, 2026

zandor said:
My view of MacOS deteriorated a bit when Tahoe came out. I use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. The new program launcher in Tahoe is straight out Windows 3.1. It's complete and utter trash. The previous version had this sort of Win 7 Win 8 hybrid where you could right click for a menu with all your apps or get the full screen treatment. Tahoe just crams all your apps into a little widow. It looks like Program Manager in Windows 3 from 1990, and works worse. At least Program Manager let you organize stuff into folders. At the end of the day it still works, but I don't get why people think MacOS is so great. MacOS is ok. Windows is ok. Linux is ok. None are perfect. All three are "fine". As in good enough. All of them have a bunch of warts but they work ok and get the job done.

I've never used that to open apps. It's either the dock or pressing command + spacebar, which now accesses everything extraordinarily fast, including settings. I agree that the new version is absolutely idiotic, but with how Spotlight search works now that's all I really need. And you're right. None are perfect. But I love macOS far more than the rest. We'll see how this year's version is going to be since it's supposed to be like Snow Leopard 2.0 where they focus almost entirely on fixing bugs and optimizing the OS. Also, I'd rather gouge out my eyes than have to use Windows or Linux for my workflow over macOS.

zandor · Apr 9, 2026

Shoganai said:
Also, I'd rather gouge out my eyes than have to use Windows or Linux for my workflow over macOS.

I really don't give a flying fuck. As far as I'm concerned all those hardcore Win11 haters are just straight up nuts. Rage rage rage 10 or 7 is so much better... I just don't get it. Everything is kinda "meh" and kinda ok. Linux, Windows, Mac, whatever. None are hard to deal with, and none are perfect. Guess I'm just totally over the OS wars. I'll just keep doing my thing and use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. They're all "fine". Good enough. They get the job done.

Nicklebon · Apr 10, 2026

zandor said:
I'll just keep doing my thing and use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. They're all "fine". Good enough. They get the job done.

PREACH! This fucker up here ^^^^ get's it. I'm killing time typing this on Lenovo Windows 11 laptop because I'm tired of working on the presentation I'm doing on my Macbook for work. I've got linux VMs running pihole, log, and netflow servers. Hell there used to be a couple AiX and Solaris boxes here running things. Whatever gets the job done. An OS is not a religion get over it.

ChadD · Apr 10, 2026

DukenukemX said:
That's an interesting list. The Apple II is probably the first home computer. Some would say it's the Altair but really it was the Apple II. The iMac was never copied ever again, even by Apple. Unless you think the iMac was the first all-in-one computer, because it wasn't. Then there's the Macbook Air, which again hasn't been copied either. I'm going by the idea that it's fanless because I can't figure out what feature that makes the Macbook Air desirable? It's not even the thinnest laptop ever made since that belongs to the Acer Swift 7.

View: https://youtu.be/ozOvMNmDxWI?si=vZmJTHe1fC2t4c35

The ultrabook market is essentially dead with Chromebooks left caring the flag. Tablets took over that market. As for expecting the market to copy Apple's Neo, I'm not so sure. The key features of the Neo are better screen and speaker quality. For most people, a standard 1080p screen is just fine. We'll see how the industry reacts if the Neo sells well or not.

The macbook air was 100% revolutionary. Were there thin laptops before the macbook air. Sure. Were they premium alum in the same way NO. I knew people at the time that bought them and loved them... like LOVED them. In a world of heavy thick laptops that would burn your lap or blow hot air around. They were loved by people doing frankly not a whole lot with them. That is the thing 99% of the things people do on a laptop ain't much. Even back then.

The imac was also revolutionary. There were other all in ones sure. But apple made computers a cool consumer product again at a time when lets be honest "COOL" for a PC was what ever the fuck Compaq and HP were doing, and it was mostly ugly as sin grey/cream plastic with goofy shaped faceplates. (and even back then a ton of crap ware preinstalled) I remember selling a compaq comptuer that was Cream PC plastic with for some reason a transparent purple front plate. There was some real ugly PCs.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MacBo...-effectively-free-A18-Pro-SoCs.1267984.0.html
As for how the industry or Apple is going to react to Neo sales....
Well Duke, apparently Apple figured 5-8 million of these was the ceiling and reports are that they are already running out of chips to put in them.
I suspect we get a Neo Pro announcement a lot sooner then anyone including Apple expected. I believe its very likely we see a A19 version at $699 before back to school. That would cool off the $599 neo sales and let Apple get to the next gen and more cheap or "free" cast off chips.
It seems like the plan was to use the A19 parts for Neo 2 next year... if they pull that head as a pro or something to sell at the same time. It solves one issue and sort of creates one later. That gives them a lot of time to plan to have more then enough chips to build out a "neo2" using A20... and they can ensure they fab more then enough for both markets. Maybe even product Neo2 with the binned fused off GPU cores, and a Neo2 Pro with fully operational silicon.

In a decade when we look back... I'm sure people will say Apple wasn't first to the Neo. Qualcom was selling "phone" chip windows laptops long before the Neo. lol

zehoo · Apr 10, 2026

ChadD said:
In a decade when we look back... I'm sure people will say Apple wasn't first to the Neo. Qualcom was selling "phone" chip windows laptops long before the Neo. lol

The issue that Qualcomm chip has is that Windows is very much chained to the x86 architecture, and convincing the user base to move over is not going to happen while good x86 silicon still exists. MS also needs to improve their x86->ARM emulation quality like Apple did when it moved to ARM. But they're probably using copilot to program it.

Now pretty much everything on macOS runs native ARM unless you need to use software +6 years old. And the Neo is taking full advantage of that.

DukenukemX · Apr 10, 2026

Shoganai said:
You're awfully passionate for someone who is never going to own a Mac.

We all do it. Some of us are less aware of it than others it seems.

Shoganai said:
Also, I'd rather gouge out my eyes than have to use Windows or Linux for my workflow over macOS.

You ask anyone that's used something forever and they'd rather not have it any other way. That's why some people still use Windows 7.

zandor said:
I really don't give a flying fuck. As far as I'm concerned all those hardcore Win11 haters are just straight up nuts. Rage rage rage 10 or 7 is so much better... I just don't get it. Everything is kinda "meh" and kinda ok. Linux, Windows, Mac, whatever. None are hard to deal with, and none are perfect. Guess I'm just totally over the OS wars. I'll just keep doing my thing and use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. They're all "fine". Good enough. They get the job done.

Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses. It's all about what matters the most to you and what you're willing to give up. Windows 11's strength is that it runs everything. Want to run software? There's a 99% chance it runs on Windows 11. MacOS's strength is that it isn't Windows 11, which means no ads and no AI junk. Plus, MacOS is more stable and less prone to viruses. Can't remember the last time Apple released an update that broke machines. Linux's strength is that it isn't Windows and MacOS, which means you have a much higher degree of privacy. Linux is also stable and doesn't get viruses like MacOS. Linux gives you total control.

But each OS does have it's downsides. Windows 11 updates have been breaking computers, and it has ads and AI pushed in. MacOS has worse compatibility when it comes to software in general. Linux needs you to install it and has software compatibility that is worse than MacOS in terms of how bad it can be. These are facts gentlemen.

ChadD said:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/MacBo...-effectively-free-A18-Pro-SoCs.1267984.0.html
As for how the industry or Apple is going to react to Neo sales....
Well Duke, apparently Apple figured 5-8 million of these was the ceiling and reports are that they are already running out of chips to put in them.
I suspect we get a Neo Pro announcement a lot sooner then anyone including Apple expected. I believe its very likely we see a A19 version at $699 before back to school. That would cool off the $599 neo sales and let Apple get to the next gen and more cheap or "free" cast off chips.
It seems like the plan was to use the A19 parts for Neo 2 next year... if they pull that head as a pro or something to sell at the same time. It solves one issue and sort of creates one later. That gives them a lot of time to plan to have more then enough chips to build out a "neo2" using A20... and they can ensure they fab more then enough for both markets. Maybe even product Neo2 with the binned fused off GPU cores, and a Neo2 Pro with fully operational silicon.

Keep in mind Vision Pro had strong initial sales too. People thought this would light the world on fire. All they did was light their wallets on fire. I still think Neo's success will be limited to schools and nothing more. Of course, if the Neo does succeed outside of schools then it'll displace Macbook Air sales. Something I don't think Apple would want. Given the economy, I can see a lot of people going for the Neo over a Macbook Air, despite the lower performance of the Neo.

Something to also think about is who's buying the Neo? The purpose of the Neo is to get children into the Apple ecosystem, but I doubt that's what drives these strong initial sales. My guess are people who are already invested into the Apple ecosystem. People who were going to buy other Mac models, might have settled on the Neo. Either that or people who were going to buy used Macs?

In a decade when we look back... I'm sure people will say Apple wasn't first to the Neo. Qualcom was selling "phone" chip windows laptops long before the Neo. lol

Microsoft beat the Neo when it comes to putting a cell phone chip in a laptop, and everyone hated it. The Surface Pro X 2017 wasn't cheap like the Neo as Microsoft was asking for $1k. Given that modern Macs running ARM are far more robust than Microsoft was in 2017 with Qualcomm, I don't see the Neo having the same shortcomings as Microsoft did in 2017.

ChadD · Apr 10, 2026

zehoo said:
The issue that Qualcomm chip has is that Windows is very much chained to the x86 architecture, and convincing the user base to move over is not going to happen while good x86 silicon still exists. MS also needs to improve their x86->ARM emulation quality like Apple did when it moved to ARM. But they're probably using copilot to program it.

Now pretty much everything on macOS runs native ARM unless you need to use software +6 years old. And the Neo is taking full advantage of that.

Indeed. MS biggest hurdle is MS.
I'm sure in 3 or 4 years ARM windows will be fantastic... but no OEMs will be willing to even build them.

MS is such a dumb dumb company. The power of creating a windows ARM... should have been creating a ecosystem for multiple non traditional CPU companies being able to jump in. Nvidia should have said oh yes we can do that. (in fact they were ready to... but all reports are windows arm runs like ass on NV cause MS) Samsung should have been in on that, and probably 10 other little players. All MS had to do was as you say build a proper translation tool first, and NOT tie the re built bits of windows so tightly to Qualcomm specific hardware. It is crazy that MS creates a version for windows for a ISA that has 7 or 8 different companies making CPUs using it not counting Apple. Yet they tie their OS to one. MS should have had devices running CPUs from 2 or 3 min different companies when they launched win arm. They should have had a neo like device running a Samsung Axios or something 4 years ago.

ChadD · Apr 10, 2026

DukenukemX said:
Keep in mind Vision Pro had strong initial sales too. People thought this would light the world on fire. All they did was light their wallets on fire. I still think Neo's success will be limited to schools and nothing more. Of course, if the Neo does succeed outside of schools then it'll displace Macbook Air sales. Something I don't think Apple would want. Given the economy, I can see a lot of people going for the Neo over a Macbook Air, despite the lower performance of the Neo.

Something to also think about is who's buying the Neo? The purpose of the Neo is to get children into the Apple ecosystem, but I doubt that's what drives these strong initial sales. My guess are people who are already invested into the Apple ecosystem. People who were going to buy other Mac models, might have settled on the Neo. Either that or people who were going to buy used Macs?

Microsoft beat the Neo when it comes to putting a cell phone chip in a laptop, and everyone hated it. The Surface Pro X 2017 wasn't cheap like the Neo as Microsoft was asking for $1k. Given that modern Macs running ARM are far more robust than Microsoft was in 2017 with Qualcomm, I don't see the Neo having the same shortcomings as Microsoft did in 2017.

It is hard to believe anyone thought the vision pro would be anything but a fad. But yes Apple hypers don't always live in reality.

I don't think there is any real worry of Neo eating in to Macbook air sales. The thing with Macbooks is almost everyone buying one the last 4 or 5 years is in no way buying their first mac. They market share has been very stable cause the converted keep buying new models. It hasn't really grown either. Not many people have honestly been switching from Windows Laptops to Macbooks. The hype of the Air and Apple silicon are all kinda old and stale now.

If we take Tim Cook at his word. The first week of Neo sales saw a crazy number of brand new first time Mac users buying Neos.
https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/20/apple-shares-mac-sales-achievement/

Neo is not going to eat into Air sales. It is going to push Air sales UP. People are going to buy a Neo. Be happy with the OS. Be happy with the experience. Be very very happy with the build quailty if they are coming from almost anything PC. Yes their are some wonderful PCs... but honestly now the vast majority of PC laptop hardware is plasticy junk with crap screens crap battery life crap overall design. The best of the best is = to Apple some might even best Apple, but 99% of PC users don't own those machines. They own the inexpensive Acer that flexes when you touch it anywhere, and has backlights that glow in every corner of the screen, and hums like a sports car as it spews exhust on you.
These new happy Apple customers. In a year or two, are going to give the Neo to their Kid, or sell it for 3/4 of what they paid for it and buy a Mac Book Air. (for all the reasons we have been going over for 2 weeks. Sure its capable but yes a M series CPU with 16gb of ram is much better)

haha ya your right on the Surface. I guess MS did kinda try already. Just MS being MS on that one. Lets make something spendy. Ultimate morons.

zehoo · Apr 10, 2026

ChadD said:
haha ya your right on the Surface. I guess MS did kinda try already. Just MS being MS on that one. Lets make something spendy. Ultimate morons.

MS has a long history of a swing and a miss / dropping the ball / sh_ _ ing the bed when it comes to ARM. Going from not taking advantage of their first mover advantage with Windows CE, to Windows Tegra Surface being a non starter, to buying Nokia and wrecking it, and now to Windows Qualcomm ARM looking to be a non starter. Meanwhile Apple steps in with the software done right first time and has a completely smooth transition to ARM (admittedly they had a lot of experience from iOS).

It really makes me wonder what would happen to desktop Windows OS dominance if Valve found a 100% reliable way to emulate people's Steam catalogue's on linux or macOS, and linux creators/users stopped being douche elitists and finally worked on making the OS 100% user friendly. (seeking help in linux forums is frequently a painful experience of someone being unhelpful and insulting you for not already knowing the answer to the question you're asking and then not helping).

1_rick · Apr 10, 2026

ChadD said:
Indeed. MS biggest hurdle is MS.
I'm sure in 3 or 4 years ARM windows will be fantastic... but no OEMs will be willing to even build them.

MS is such a dumb dumb company. The power of creating a windows ARM... should have been creating a ecosystem for multiple non traditional CPU companies being able to jump in. Nvidia should have said oh yes we can do that. (in fact they were ready to... but all reports are windows arm runs like ass on NV cause MS) Samsung should have been in on that, and probably 10 other little players. All MS had to do was as you say build a proper translation tool first, and NOT tie the re built bits of windows so tightly to Qualcomm specific hardware. It is crazy that MS creates a version for windows for a ISA that has 7 or 8 different companies making CPUs using it not counting Apple. Yet they tie their OS to one. MS should have had devices running CPUs from 2 or 3 min different companies when they launched win arm. They should have had a neo like device running a Samsung Axios or something 4 years ago.

What's extra dumb is that WIndows--server, at least--used to work on multiple other architectures, including, IIRC, MIPS, PowerPC, and Alpha AXP or whatever it was called.

LukeTbk · Apr 10, 2026

A window of exclusivity could be what needed for someone to do the jump and spend all the ressource doing it (with such high risk), the idea that Microsoft are dumb after decades over decades of giant success and that we can easily know what would have been better to do.... (if they are dump, they are not able to do a proper translation tool anyway), without an patent base closed duopoly like in x86 those giant margin are not certain to be there and Nvidia can stick an very expensive GPU on the same SOC will be interested of course.

Aurelius · Apr 10, 2026

DukenukemX said:
The lack of cooling isn't a mistake by Apple, because cooling means bigger and bulkier housing with noisy fans. Apple just prioritizes silence and esthetics. It works out for them in benchmarks because Geekbench and Cinebench only last a minute which even the fanless heatsinkless Neo would seem to perform well. It just doesn't after a minute.

It's not just benchmarks, it's that the target audiences for the Air and Neo generally aren't doing things that require sustained performance, like 3D modelling or extended video exports. The sort of people who genuinely want that kind of speed were already headed toward a MacBook Pro.

As it is, silence and aesthetics can be good things. If you're crunching on a midterm essay, it's nice to hear yourself think instead of a fan. And when it comes to design, it's not just about looks... ask anyone who's had to lug a thick, heavy laptop across campus or a large airport (hi, Chicago O'Hare). It's just a question of what you prioritize.

DukenukemX said:
I'm more concerned the industry tries to sell cell phone chips in Laptops. Though, Microsoft tried this years ago with their Surface X Qualcomm machines and it was trash. Putting in better screens and aluminum housing would be a welcome change for Windows laptops. Fixing Windows 11's problems would be a welcome change. There are too many situations where Apple's ideas would signal other vendors to also implement them because if it works for Apple then it'll work for other manufacturers. I do not like having a phone with no SD card and headphone jack. I also really don't like having a phone without a slide out QWERTY keyboard. The only reason this happened was because Apple was "brave".

Apple's the only one likely to do straight-up phone chips. Qualcomm has always tried to customize Snapdragon chips for PCs. It's getting better, but I'll definitely agree that those first chips were... rough. The Snapdragon X2 lineup appears to be a lot better so far.

With that in mind, I suspect Qualcomm is going to be on the back foot for a long time as its business model makes it harder to compete with Apple on sheer value. It doesn't have as much control over chip inventory, and generally doesn't keep binned parts. It also doesn't appear to have done much about adapting existing Snapdragon phone chips for the desktop, so you aren't about to see a $599 Windows machine with a Snapdragon 8 Elite. The customizations for the Snapdragon X line make them good Apple M-series competitors, but not the A-series.

Shoganai · Apr 10, 2026

zandor said:
I really don't give a flying fuck. As far as I'm concerned all those hardcore Win11 haters are just straight up nuts. Rage rage rage 10 or 7 is so much better... I just don't get it. Everything is kinda "meh" and kinda ok. Linux, Windows, Mac, whatever. None are hard to deal with, and none are perfect. Guess I'm just totally over the OS wars. I'll just keep doing my thing and use Mac, Windows and Linux on a daily basis. They're all "fine". Good enough. They get the job done.

I also use macOS, Windows, and Linux on a daily basis. You using all of them doesn't make you special. You using one of them doesn't make you special either. I have Windows in a VM on my Mac that I use for work literally every day because there are pieces of software that literally don't exist on macOS, especially for cloning and maintaining Windows drives. I have Linux on old devices that can't run anything else or they'd be slow and useless and Linux breathes new life into them. They all serve a purpose. You seem excessively angry for no reason. I literally need every OS to do what I need my devices to do. Windows has become a steaming pile of buggy turd though and they really need to address this. For Windows I either strip it down to the bare bones or use an LTSC version. That usually addresses most issues.

I'm allowed to bitch about the current state of operating systems without being labeled some weird thing. Get your panties out of the massive bunch they're in.

ChadD · Apr 10, 2026

zehoo said:
MS has a long history of a swing and a miss / dropping the ball / sh_ _ ing the bed when it comes to ARM. Going from not taking advantage of their first mover advantage with Windows CE, to Windows Tegra Surface being a non starter, to buying Nokia and wrecking it, and now to Windows Qualcomm ARM looking to be a non starter. Meanwhile Apple steps in with the software done right first time and has a completely smooth transition to ARM (admittedly they had a lot of experience from iOS).

It really makes me wonder what would happen to desktop Windows OS dominance if Valve found a 100% reliable way to emulate people's Steam catalogue's on linux or macOS, and linux creators/users stopped being douche elitists and finally worked on making the OS 100% user friendly. (seeking help in linux forums is frequently a painful experience of someone being unhelpful and insulting you for not already knowing the answer to the question you're asking and then not helping).

It is crazy MS has been in good position multiple times and found ways to drop the ball.

Valve has 100% reliably emulated everyones steam catalog. More then that you can install Heroic on Linux and install anything from your GOG and Epic stores as easily as well. The only "games" that don't work are actually root kits. Yes it sucks that game developers insist on being able to scan the hard drives of people playing their games. Linux is never going to allow software to do that. Consider it a feature not a negative. Linux allows you to better spot malware.

https://cachyos.org/
If you have a free drive, come give a proper Linux distro a go for a few days. High probability it results in you switching for good. Do a little research first it is a OS after all its not supposed to be a non thinking process. Cachy will give you all the options for DE, cause we have options which is good. If your coming in as a gamer just select KDE.

ChadD · Apr 10, 2026

1_rick said:
What's extra dumb is that WIndows--server, at least--used to work on multiple other architectures, including, IIRC, MIPS, PowerPC, and Alpha AXP or whatever it was called.

With Microsoft, it feels a lot like what happens with game developers. They hire a bunch of great software engineers to build the game, and when its go time they let them go and the people left maintaining it shit it up more and more the longer out they get from launch day.

In Microsofts case, I think they simply lost their best to retirement somewhere around the Windows NT launch. Probably a bunch of the talented early engineering hires that got enticed with major stock options got rich and retired early. It is crazy that windows still basically leans on all the core bits developed at that point. They have never managed to replace NTFS, they still use more or less the same terrible round robin CPU scheduler. I know they have a lot of other issues, it seems like there is a serious lack of talent as well.

Aurelius · Apr 10, 2026

zehoo said:
MS has a long history of a swing and a miss / dropping the ball / sh_ _ ing the bed when it comes to ARM. Going from not taking advantage of their first mover advantage with Windows CE, to Windows Tegra Surface being a non starter, to buying Nokia and wrecking it, and now to Windows Qualcomm ARM looking to be a non starter. Meanwhile Apple steps in with the software done right first time and has a completely smooth transition to ARM (admittedly they had a lot of experience from iOS).

The issue isn't so much ARM as Microsoft struggling to move beyond the product that made it so successful (Windows on x86 PCs). There's been a corporate culture at Microsoft, one that partially persists to this day, that treats new categories and platforms as threats rather than opportunities.

Microsoft botched phones because they weren't allowed to take priority over desktop Windows. It botched tablets because it kept trying to shoehorn desktop Windows into the form factor without major adaptations (Windows 8 was a skin-deep touch layer full of confusing elements).

Windows on ARM is... complicated. It mostly comes down to Microsoft fairing poorly at transitions and not doing enough to spur Qualcomm or developers until relatively recently. And of course, the very thing that often helps Windows (diversity of hardware) hurts it in this case. Why build an ARM-native version of your Windows app when Microsoft will seemingly support x86 forever? Apple's single-vendor approach limits choices, but also means that developers had a strong incentive to move quickly when the transition began.

zehoo · Apr 10, 2026

ChadD said:
https://cachyos.org/
If you have a free drive, come give a proper Linux distro a go for a few days. High probability it results in you switching for good. Do a little research first it is a OS after all it’s not supposed to be a non thinking process. Cachy will give you all the options for DE, cause we have options which is good. If you’re coming in as a gamer just select KDE.

I use Manjaro on the living room htpc and mint on some VMs. Next time I swap out my VMs I might give cachy a go. For gaming I don’t want to screw around after work so I just use windows and for everything else macOS.

DukenukemX · Apr 10, 2026

ChadD said:
Indeed. MS biggest hurdle is MS.
I'm sure in 3 or 4 years ARM windows will be fantastic... but no OEMs will be willing to even build them.

Microsoft will be making ARM based devices because Microsoft is determined to push Windows into ARM. Microsoft is willing to kill their Surface line of products by not also selling x86 based versions.

MS is such a dumb dumb company. The power of creating a windows ARM... should have been creating a ecosystem for multiple non traditional CPU companies being able to jump in. Nvidia should have said oh yes we can do that. (in fact they were ready to... but all reports are windows arm runs like ass on NV cause MS) Samsung should have been in on that, and probably 10 other little players. All MS had to do was as you say build a proper translation tool first, and NOT tie the re built bits of windows so tightly to Qualcomm specific hardware. It is crazy that MS creates a version for windows for a ISA that has 7 or 8 different companies making CPUs using it not counting Apple. Yet they tie their OS to one. MS should have had devices running CPUs from 2 or 3 min different companies when they launched win arm.

Microsoft has made versions of Windows for other CPU architectures but they ultimately failed. Remember Windows CE on Sega Dreamcast running MIPS? This is because for a long time Intel was the dominate CPU manufacturer. Intel has since lost some of that dominance.

Also, x86 to ARM translation tools are better now because of ARM themselves who made Total Store Order (TSO), which allows ARM to switch between weak and strong memory ordering. Apple just so happen to be one of the first to implement this into an ARM CPU with the M1. When Microsoft tried this back in 2017 and 2019, this feature wasn't a thing and x86 emulation was really slow.

They should have had a neo like device running a Samsung Axios or something 4 years ago.

And it would likely sell horribly. If "build quality" and ascetics matters to Windows users, then there would be a shift in the market already. The reason we see so many plastic $600 laptops with 1080p displays is because this is what the market demanded. It should also be noted that again the $600 Windows laptop market is not that bad. Acer Aspire 14 AI Copilot+ PC 14" Laptop Computer - Steel Gray for $550 at MicroCenter has double the ram of the Neo, with 4x the storage at 1TB, 2.5Gb LAN, and a backlit keyboard. It's even mentioned to be made out of aluminum. I'm certain the screen is worse than the Neo, along with speakers but does anyone actually care? It's otherwise a much better laptop and even $50 cheaper.

That doesn't mean the Windows laptop manufacturers won't respond to the Neo, but I think people will see that Windows laptop buyers will always gravitate towards specs. There's also a group of people who only buy Intel based products. Despite AMD's best attempts at the laptop market, they only have a little over 20% of the x86 laptop market.

Aurelius said:
The issue isn't so much ARM as Microsoft struggling to move beyond the product that made it so successful (Windows on x86 PCs). There's been a corporate culture at Microsoft, one that partially persists to this day, that treats new categories and platforms as threats rather than opportunities.

Microsoft has wanted ARM since Windows RT, which was around 2012. This hasn't worked for a myriad of reasons, but Microsoft is definitely one of them.

Microsoft botched phones because they weren't allowed to take priority over desktop Windows.

They botched phones because Microsoft took too long to respond to a market shift that Apple and Google beat them to. The sad thing is that Microsoft has smart phones with Windows on them since the year 2000. Microsoft and Nokia with Symbian has beat Apple to the smart phone for many years, but nobody knows this because all prior attempts weren't as good.

Windows_Phone_6.5_home_screen%2C_WVGA_variant.png

It botched tablets because it kept trying to shoehorn desktop Windows into the form factor without major adaptations (Windows 8 was a skin-deep touch layer full of confusing elements).

Tablets are self botching. This is why the Neo was created. There are many iPads that cost less than the Neo at a little over $300. The iPad M2 released in 2024 was $600. If iPads could replace computers then why make the Neo?

Windows on ARM is... complicated. It mostly comes down to Microsoft fairing poorly at transitions and not doing enough to spur Qualcomm or developers until relatively recently. And of course, the very thing that often helps Windows (diversity of hardware) hurts it in this case. Why build an ARM-native version of your Windows app when Microsoft will seemingly support x86 forever? Apple's single-vendor approach limits choices, but also means that developers had a strong incentive to move quickly when the transition began.

Microsoft already tried to push for ARM, but the failure is also shared with Qualcomm and their drivers. Qualcomm's drivers weren't even good for Linux. Microsoft tried to make AI features exclusive to Qualcomm for a limited time, as well as only selling Surface Devices with Qualcomm chips. The reality is that AMD and Intel had caught up to ARM in terms of power efficiency and this killed off any chances of ARM's success with Windows. Vendors aren't on board with ARM because Qualcomm laptop sales are terrible. Even Adobe didn't port Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Audition to Windows ARM. Considering the surprisingly results of Intel's Panther Lake, we may never see a reason to go ARM. Who knows what AMD's Zen6 is cooking?

erek · Apr 13, 2026

“Apple Ramps Up MacBook Neo Production to 10 Million Units Amid Strong Demand

by AleksandarK Today, 09:45 Discuss (8 Comments)
Apple has informed its supply chain that the company now aims to produce a total of 10 million first-generation MacBook Neo laptops, as consumer demand has been phenomenal. Initially, with the MacBook Neo launch, Apple expected consumers to purchase between 5 and 8 million units throughout the lifecycle of the first generation. However, since demand has exceeded initial expectations, Apple is significantly increasing production to meet this demand. As the Cupertino-based company has access to a wide network of manufacturing partners, ramping up production is straightforward, provided the main component—the A18 Pro SoC—is consistently supplied by TSMC.

Additionally, Apple is already planning a second-generation MacBook Neo with major upgrades to the overall system, primarily due to the new A19 Pro SoC, which will come with 12 GB of RAM. The current MacBook Neo features the mobile A18 Pro chip and is limited to 8 GB of RAM. According to recent rumors, Apple may upgrade the MacBook Neo's internals in 2027, equipping it with an A19 Pro, the same SoC found in the latest iPhone 17 Pro smartphones. Inside the MacBook Neo, Apple has opted to reuse the iPhone 16 Pro's chip, which is produced by TSMC and includes 8 GB of LPDDR5X memory. This memory is directly attached above the A18 Pro SoC using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP) technology, creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package.”

Apple intros MacBook Neo: $599 with an iPhone chip

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"Rumor Tips A19 Pro SoC and 12 GB RAM for Apple MacBook Neo​

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“Apple Faces 'Massive Dilemma' With Success of the MacBook Neo​

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“Apple Ramps Up MacBook Neo Production to 10 Million Units Amid Strong Demand​

"Rumor Tips A19 Pro SoC and 12 GB RAM for Apple MacBook Neo

“Apple Faces 'Massive Dilemma' With Success of the MacBook Neo

“Apple Ramps Up MacBook Neo Production to 10 Million Units Amid Strong Demand