• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

DLSS 5 - Generative AI

MikeTrike said:
19 out of 20*

The current stranglehold of Nvidia has done wonders for the market :) games are better than ever, hardware pricing is at all time lows. We should be tired of winning, because it's just too good.

If DLSS 5 gets a foothold, is only going to get better...
Click to expand...
Their AI obsession is causing the exact opposite, actually.
 
DooKey said:
It's not the fault of NV that AMD let gamers down.
Click to expand...
They definitely are now as they continue the push harder into the Nvidia direction.

Shoganai said:
Their AI obsession is causing the exact opposite, actually.
Click to expand...
Oh, my mistake.

Screenshot_20260319-184114.png
 
MikeTrike said:
They definitely are now as they continue the push harder into the Nvidia direction.


Oh, my mistake.

View attachment 792449
Click to expand...
Are you just entirely ignoring the AI / RAM crisis and NVIDIA's involvement and comments on it? NVIDIA is helping drive up the cost of literally everything that uses RAM and this is supposed to last years.
 
Shoganai said:
Are you just entirely ignoring the AI / RAM crisis and NVIDIA's involvement and comments on it? NVIDIA is helping drive up the cost of literally everything that uses RAM and this is supposed to last years.
Click to expand...
Dude :LOL:
 
Shoganai said:
Are you just entirely ignoring the AI / RAM crisis and NVIDIA's involvement and comments on it? NVIDIA is helping drive up the cost of literally everything that uses RAM and this is supposed to last years.
Click to expand...
I'm literally aware. It's literally one of the reasons why I hate this DLSS trash, although that's maybe a third of the hate.
 
SmokeRngs said:
DLSS5 is going to be even worse because it's a compounding problem with multiplicative errors in magnitude. First you have upscaling which has its own issues and errors then you add in framegen which adds in more issues and errors and then you top that with the new DLSS5 stuff which causes more issues and errors while compounding all the issues and errors from the previous stuff done to the images. It ends up being multiplicative compounding errors.
Click to expand...

That is certainly a good point. I generally try and not use DLSS when possible. But the more you add, the more small ghosting issues you see, the more odd blurriness, or slight tearing/oddness. I am assuming you can turn off DLSS 5 face changing features, but that is why I don't like it being called DLSS, especially an iterative number. DLSS should have remained for up scaling, and DLSS frame generation should have been called NVFG1 (Nvidia Frame Generation), and as new versions came out, up that number. Up scaling and Frame Gen should be independent names/version numbers, likewise for this new thing. Rolling it all into one term becomes confusing to tell which version adds what or improves what.
 
DooKey said:
Buy AMD if you don't like it. You do have choices.

Of course, lately it's 9 out of 10 NV GPUs over AMD.
Click to expand...
It's a shame it's so hard to make GPUs, we really need a bigger market, it's just not really possible. AMD will absolutely have an "answer" to this slop no one really wants. It will one hundred percent be part of the next xbox.
 
Last edited:
DooKey said:
Buy AMD if you don't like it. You do have choices.

Of course, lately it's 9 out of 10 NV GPUs over AMD.
Click to expand...
There is a choice not on your list. Buy nVidia, don't use DLSS5, complain that it's trash so nVidia does better.
 
MikeTrike said:
I'm literally aware. It's literally one of the reasons why I hate this DLSS trash, although that's maybe a third of the hate.
Click to expand...
I'm tired and apparently incapable of detecting basic human interactions at the moment.
 
WilyKit said:
There is a choice not on your list. Buy nVidia, don't use DLSS5, complain that it's trash so nVidia does better.
Click to expand...

And for all the people who say "Well eventually we will all be forced to use it because game devs will become lazier and resort entirely to DLSS in order to hallucinate games!" Lol no, just no. It should be super obvious judging by how much pushback there is against DLSS 5 that not EVERY SINGLE GAME DEV is going to resort to using it. There will always be based developers who are completely against any form of Gen AI like the Sandfall Interactive that made Clair Obscur or Larian Studios that made Baldur's Gate 3. There will always be games for you play that are made without any use of Gen AI.
 
MistaSparkul said:
And for all the people who say "Well eventually we will all be forced to use it because game devs will become lazier and resort entirely to DLSS in order to hallucinate games!" Lol no, just no. It should be super obvious judging by how much pushback there is against DLSS 5 that not EVERY SINGLE GAME DEV is going to resort to using it. There will always be based developers who are completely against any form of Gen AI like the Sandfall Interactive that made Clair Obscur or Larian Studios that made Baldur's Gate 3. There will always be games for you play that are made without any use of Gen AI.
Click to expand...
Devs who resort to using generative AI to create their games are just coding themselves out of a job. AI has its place. This isn’t it.
 
MistaSparkul said:
And for all the people who say "Well eventually we will all be forced to use it because game devs will become lazier and resort entirely to DLSS in order to hallucinate games!" Lol no, just no. It should be super obvious judging by how much pushback there is against DLSS 5 that not EVERY SINGLE GAME DEV is going to resort to using it. There will always be based developers who are completely against any form of Gen AI like the Sandfall Interactive that made Clair Obscur or Larian Studios that made Baldur's Gate 3. There will always be games for you play that are made without any use of Gen AI.
Click to expand...

Well you can split game development into a few different camps at this point.

AAA gaming though with the billion dollar ownership, that answer to shareholders. Yes they will all adopt the slop.

AA and indie games sure they will shun this stuff, much as they do with RT.
 
ChadD said:
Well you can split game development into a few different camps at this point.

AAA gaming though with the billion dollar ownership, that answer to shareholders. Yes they will all adopt the slop.

AA and indie games sure they will shun this stuff, much as they do with RT.
Click to expand...

AAA gaming has long been in decline way before this. There will always be quality AA and indie studios that will put out graphics the "normal" way so I don't buy the argument that we will all someday be forced to use DLSS one bit.
 
MistaSparkul said:
AAA gaming has long been in decline way before this. There will always be quality AA and indie studios that will put out graphics the "normal" way so I don't buy the argument that we will all someday be forced to use DLSS one bit.
Click to expand...
As a gamer who mostly plays AA and indies... ya I don't care about this it won't really effect me. Sort of.
I mean I am still posting on [H] I still want to push hardware and I love PC junk.
Your not wrong Nvidia has already mostly killed that to develop their datacenter silicon. Now that they are their I guess they can stop pretending Ray Tracing was ever important. DLSS5 doesn't use or need tracing anymore.

This is still galling... like it or not any new NV GPU you buy is probably going to not be any better with your AA/indie games then the ones they sold previously. They now really have no reason to push raster graphic abilities. They don't even have a reason to push more "RT cores" (I have been telling people for 8 years that they aren't RT cores, they are just bloddy matrix math cores 100% not designed for anything to do with gaming)

I don't want to live in a world where the only real options are Nvidias slop card that is priced to power the AAA slop future. OR a Mac...
Who knows what AMD does. They might still tap out on PC GPUs, or more likely as per usual they will follow NV where ever it goes.
Then again maybe I just buy a Steam Cube or a mac mini, play indies and save myself the frustration of trying to buy Ram or GPUs in the future.
 

View: https://youtu.be/HiDxiLgnJ-Y?si=RFQAw7ZzesN10m3d&t=510

He brings up an interesting... point I am not sure I believe completely.
According to Tom, Nvidia may be looking at what AMD has cooking for RDNA5. And that they may release a year ahead of NV. Jensen hates to loose and doesn't want to add more Raster or even RT stuff to his silicon he wants more pure AI stuff. So DLSS5 is them flipping the table. RT... that is so 2024. Raster that is so 2010. That even if DLSS5 doesn't run great on NV it is still going to run way better then it would on AMD.

I don't know its a take. Maybe.
It is really fucking strange that Nvidia who has been all over RT for 8 years now... is willing to just toss the tech. It is strange.
 
Last edited:
ChadD said:
RT... that is so 2024

It is really fucking strange that Nvidia who has been all over RT for 8 years now... is willing to just toss the tech. It is strange.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you're getting this from. RT will be used in conjunction with dlss5 for the best overall image quality. Dlss5 also doesn't have to be applied to the entire image.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Not sure where you're getting this from. RT will be used in conjunction with dlss5 for the best overall image quality. Dlss5 also doesn't have to be applied to the entire image.
Click to expand...
You are mistaken. That isn't how it works.
The filter completely removes light sources, invents shadows with no light sources... and creates multiple new light sources.

Daniel Owen got confirmation from Nvidia themselves.

This has already been posted but if you didn't see it. DLSS5 is really just a screen shot of the game with motion vectors and color correction. It is so much worse then even I thought initially. If you are going to use DLSS5 the upside is it is completely pointless to use Ray tracing. Completely pointless.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EM1vKt36s
 
ChadD said:

View: https://youtu.be/HiDxiLgnJ-Y?si=RFQAw7ZzesN10m3d&t=510

He brings up an interesting... point I am not sure I believe completely.
According to Tom, Nvidia may be looking at what AMD has cooking for RDNA5. And that they may release a year ahead of NV. Jensen hates to loose and doesn't want to add more Raster or even RT stuff to his silicon he wants more pure AI stuff. So DLSS5 is them flipping the table. RT... that is so 2024. Raster that is so 2010. That even if DLSS5 doesn't run great on NV it is still going to run way better then it would on AMD.

I don't know its a take. Maybe.
It is really fucking strange that Nvidia who has been all over RT for 8 years now... is willing to just toss the tech. It is strange.
Click to expand...

Nvidia doesn't care what AMD is doing. The AMD RX 10090 XTX or whatever could put baby powder on your ball sack, outperform the RTX 6090 by 2x, cost half as much, and it'll still be outsold at a minimum of 10 to 1.


Speaking of balls, I'd bet both of mine AMD has their own neural rendering solution on its way, slop for all!
 
Last edited:
Decko said:
Nvidia doesn't care what AMD is doing. The AMD RX 10090 XTX or whatever could put baby powder on your ball sack, outperform the RTX 6090 by 2x, cost half as much, and it'll still be outsold at a minimum of 10 to 1.


Speaking of balls, I'd bet both of mine AMD has their own nueral rendering solution on its way, slop for all!
Click to expand...

I don't doubt it.
But Jensen would know it existed.
Jensen isn't the sort of guy that can handle that.

I also am not saying I completely believe that theory. I am still trying to figure out why the 180 though. I mean DLSS5 does seem to toss everything NV has been doing for 8 years now.
I was not expecting DLSS5 to make Ray tracing pointless? Were you? Something seems wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Decko
like this
GoldenTiger said:
Not sure where you're getting this from. RT will be used in conjunction with dlss5 for the best overall image quality. Dlss5 also doesn't have to be applied to the entire image.
Click to expand...
You either don’t know how DLSS 5 works or/and don’t know how RT works.
 
sharknice said:
The valid criticism is overshadowed by the "REEEEEEE AI" and "REEEEEE NVIDIA" crowd's nonsense.
Click to expand...

Yes, and I'm sure none of those views are fueled by lack of supply, increased prices (that have been unstable since crypto for 10+ years now) and then AI starts sucking up ram which drives those prices up. Oh, and after Nvidia has been notoriously cheap on ram for their cards since RTX came out in 2018. Lets not forget the driver stability problem for over a year now that has ruined Nvidia's supposedly stellar rep for good drivers.
 
ChadD said:

View: https://youtu.be/HiDxiLgnJ-Y?si=RFQAw7ZzesN10m3d&t=510

He brings up an interesting... point I am not sure I believe completely.
According to Tom, Nvidia may be looking at what AMD has cooking for RDNA5. And that they may release a year ahead of NV. Jensen hates to loose and doesn't want to add more Raster or even RT stuff to his silicon he wants more pure AI stuff. So DLSS5 is them flipping the table. RT... that is so 2024. Raster that is so 2010. That even if DLSS5 doesn't run great on NV it is still going to run way better then it would on AMD.

I don't know its a take. Maybe.
It is really fucking strange that Nvidia who has been all over RT for 8 years now... is willing to just toss the tech. It is strange.
Click to expand...

It's obvious why nVidia is dropping RT: RT is not and has never been achievable in any practical way. After multiple years and four generations of cards it's still niche and not getting noticeably better. The hardware needed doesn't exist. Maybe the devs who were promised easier and faster development using RT are complaining and fighting back against nVidia because it hasn't happened. Current development requires extra work to do the normal raster lighting and RT lighting.

I also wouldn't be surprised if nVidia needs architecture changes for continued AI acceleration which aren't compatible or at least are efficient with regards to RT calculations and DLSS5 is the answer to this. Whatever they're doing with DLSS5 may very well run much better on a new architecture, an architecture which also doesn't do RT well.

Or it just may be that nVidia is finally (but quietly) admitting RT isn't the future and still won't add anything to help raster (as it doesn't help with AI) and is using DLSS5 as a deflection. Advancements in GPUs for games slowed to a crawl quite a while back and nVidia is trying to claim this is an advancement when no advancements exist.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Current development requires extra work to do the normal raster lighting and RT lighting.
Click to expand...
This is the reason for the rest of your post. Devs are still mixing the rasterization and ray tracing stages together. Look at a modern game that is completely ray traced like Metro Exodus. The game performs just fine on the last three generations of hardware, and it actually did take a lot less time to make than the original hybrid version.
 
people lost perspective, gameplay, story and personality/character/charm are where it’s at imho

i rarely care about photorealism

in fact they did a study once where the games that strived for photorealistic graphics during their era didn’t age well as others
 
sc5mu93 said:
Nvidia dude who emailed Daniel Owens is probably going to be looking for a new job soon.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt there are a bunch of Nvidia engineers that came to Nvidia back when it was a gaming company. That are unhappy with the general direction.
I mean these would be the engineers that didn't get a boat load of stock options. lol
 
ChadD said:

View: https://youtu.be/HiDxiLgnJ-Y?si=RFQAw7ZzesN10m3d&t=510

He brings up an interesting... point I am not sure I believe completely.
According to Tom, Nvidia may be looking at what AMD has cooking for RDNA5. And that they may release a year ahead of NV. Jensen hates to loose and doesn't want to add more Raster or even RT stuff to his silicon he wants more pure AI stuff. So DLSS5 is them flipping the table. RT... that is so 2024. Raster that is so 2010. That even if DLSS5 doesn't run great on NV it is still going to run way better then it would on AMD.

I don't know its a take. Maybe.
It is really fucking strange that Nvidia who has been all over RT for 8 years now... is willing to just toss the tech. It is strange.
Click to expand...



You shouldn't believe him because he is a total clown. His hardware "leaks" are 50/50 which ain't too bad of a track record I guess, but this guy is pretty much the Jim Cramer of tech takes. Read this from 5 years ago and that's all you need to know.

1774028194646.png
 
KazeoHin said:
It does toss out raytracing, look at the starfield clip of the dude with the hat. DLSSLop conetely removes the shadow from the brim and makes him look like a completely different person lit from a influencer ring/studio light.

DLSlop is basically this, only in real time.


View: https://youtu.be/VwWfFoIyb8A?si=szA0vCjCLOmE2dy2
Click to expand...

correct, i’ve been trying to tell
people GTA modding community / FiveM has had this for almost 2 years and the characters look the same. i knew straight away

—-

“NVIDIA DLSS 5 Takes 2D Frame and Motion Vectors as Input​

by AleksandarK Today, 11:08 Discuss (1 Comment)
The public is still learning more about DLSS 5 technology, and NVIDIA is gradually revealing additional details. In a conversation between YouTuber Daniel Owen and NVIDIA's GeForce Evangelist Jacob Freeman, we discover that DLSS 5 essentially takes 2D frames and motion vectors as input, applying its generative AI model to output frames in a 2D context rather than 3D. This means that while the model is trained on materials that might appear 3D, its actual work is based on 2D imagery. It identifies each frame's motion vectors and anchors the model to them, operating in a 2D space instead of a full 3D environment. This approach to handling graphics is much more computationally efficient, as achieving complete photorealism in 3D would require more GPU power than is currently available. No underlying geometry is changed. Instead, 2D images and motion vectors serve as input, a generative AI model processes textures and applies scene photorealism, resulting in the final output that NVIDIA promotes as DLSS 5.“
 
MistaSparkul said:
You shouldn't believe him because he is a total clown. His hardware "leaks" are 50/50 which ain't too bad of a track record I guess, but this guy is pretty much the Jim Cramer of tech takes. Read this from 5 years ago and that's all you need to know.

View attachment 792618
Click to expand...
He seens like a nice kid but yeah he has some questionable opinions. AMD is as dead, if not more dead for consumers than Nvidia. Neither of them care at all about the consumer market. If AMD gave a shit, FSR 4 would be on RDNA 3 at the very least. It's completely inexcusable. If / when the AI bubble pops (maybe it doesn't), nvidia will have a starved consumer market to go back to, AMD will have nothing. Whatever good will they had is gone now by effectively killing support for older products. FSR 4 is great tech, and they just do nothing with it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top