• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Coding After Coders: The End of Computer Programming as We Know It

philb2

2[H]4U
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
3,377
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/12/...6548&user_id=c383821527c441214d07ce6e4a6ba12a

This vertiginous shift threatens to stir up some huge economic consequences. For decades, coding was considered such wizardry that if you were halfway competent you could expect to enjoy lifetime employment. If you were exceptional at it (and lucky), you got rich. Silicon Valley panjandrums spent the 2010s lecturing American workers in dying industries that they needed to “learn to code.”
Now coding itself is being automated. To outsiders, what programmers are facing can seem richly deserved, and even funny: American white-collar workers have long fretted that Silicon Valley might one day use A.I. to automate their jobs, but look who got hit first! Indeed, coding is perhaps the first form of very expensive industrialized human labor that A.I. can actually replace. A.I.-generated videos look janky, artificial photos surreal; law briefs can be riddled with career-ending howlers. But A.I.-generated code? If it passes its tests and works, it’s worth as much as what humans get paid $200,000 or more a year to compose.

You might imagine this would unsettle and demoralize programmers. Some of them, certainly. But I spoke to scores of developers this past fall and winter, and most were weirdly jazzed about their new powers.
 
You might imagine this would unsettle and demoralize programmers. Some of them, certainly. But I spoke to scores of developers this past fall and winter, and most were weirdly jazzed about their new powers.
Says the ones that are still employed.
When management can do the same thing you can - why do they need you?
 
Says the ones that are still employed.
When management can do the same thing you can - why do they need you?

Don't be worried about management. They don't even know how the product is supposed to work. Worry about the operations people deciding to use it to code their own tools and give it access to the database (and promptly wipes huge portions causing IT a headache). I suspect this will be a big problem going forward from people who know enough to be dangerous and have the access to do bad things ... now thinking that AI is reliable and safe.
 
Says the ones that are still employed.
When management can do the same thing you can - why do they need you?

They THINK they can

They actually can't. Eventually they're going to dumpster prod because they have no clue what they're doing. Do you trust them to have the policy, procedure, and understanding in place to prevent fuck ups?

Even the latest models have weird and very subtle behaviors you need to watch for.

For example, I was restructuring some stuff in one of my projects. I figured I'd ask the agent to do the next batch. Very simple refactoring, moving some files, fixing some import paths - zero logic changes. Just 20 minutes of tedium I was hoping it could handle. I was using either Opus 4.6 or Codex 5.3, one of the state of the art models.

Well, it did it. Tests still passed. Great.

EXCEPT it also decided it was a wonderful idea to randomly remove some comments in files it moved. Ok, weird.

But then I noticed in the diff ... it also _changed some database settings_. It changed the default database name it tries to connect to and just made some new shit up. It didn't copy a value from somewhere else in the codebase, like it just fabricated some random ass name and substituted it in.

It even touched a few tests.

These are just a handful of one or two line changes that would have downed prod if it ever made it that far. Not a complicated outage, but it would have broken the service.

Do you trust a manager with no dev and ops experience to have actually caught this? Are they just going to delegate that responsibility to yet another agent? Do you think they went though code review, went though dev and test environments, and finally rolled out the change?

Or is all that just going to be another cut corner because they can move oh so fast now...
 
Do you trust a manager with no dev and ops experience to have actually caught this?
coding team manager tend to have a lot of experience (usually the best coders 10 years ago that manage otheres coders) at least everywhere at worked at it was the case, by manager they do necessarily mean the HR people
 
coding team manager tend to have a lot of experience (usually the best coders 10 years ago that manage otheres coders) at least everywhere at worked at it was the case, by manager they do necessarily mean the HR people

Yes, that's what I meant - not the actual top of the dev team haha

Some "genius" who's "pretty good with tech" and thinks they're a hero now and can do everything the dev team could and more
 
coding team manager tend to have a lot of experience (usually the best coders 10 years ago that manage otheres coders) at least everywhere at worked at it was the case, by manager they do necessarily mean the HR people
I had to make a change in an order entry program this week. Someone gave me a short list of SKUs and unit prices in the form "these are $45", a blank line, and a few SKUs listed one by one, with about 3 groups like that. To save myself effort, I pasted that block into a comment in VS Code, and started typing something like an "if sku = '1' or sku = '2' or sku = '3' then" and as soon as I hit the space after then, it auto-filled about 8 lines of code, a nice series of if-then-elses. Looked pretty nice. Then I looked closer. It was setting the wrong price field (net, when I wanted gross), and it randomly changed 2-3 of the skus (out of around 11). Not as disastrous as socK 's example, but it would've led to some weird bugs if not caught, including "charging customers the wrong price", which would've been bad. Would management know to review every line of code to verify all field names and values were correct? Not every one would, I'm sure.
 
Just pump out the AI slop and let the end users be your beta testers. Just like our pals at Micro$lop with Windows.
This will not end well.

Well now you're just a Luddite.

Coincidentally, though many of them were killed for their objections to industrialization, the Luddites were right about an awful lot of what has come to pass.
 
Well now you're just a Luddite.

Coincidentally, though many of them were killed for their objections to industrialization, the Luddites were right about an awful lot of what has come to pass.
Luddites were never anti-technological progress, it's a smear of a nuanced group of people who understood that their ability to sustain themselves was being stripped away from them.
 
I think we all understand now that it was one thing saying that the radio, television, or the home computer would destroy society. That was too much of a doom and gloom stretch of the imagination not looking at how people would use those devices in the future. AI is orders of magnitude more dangerous than television or the early internet was without it. AI enables you to make everything, even old school print media like newspapers full of misinformation if the writers are submitting AI slop and not doing their due diligence as human beings anymore.
 
Silicon Valley panjandrums spent the 2010s lecturing American workers in dying industries that they needed to “learn to code.”
Now coding itself is being automated.
satisfaction.jpg
 
Fire workers, hire AI, make enshittified products. People who can't find work will be forced to start their own product from the ground up and make better products. Then they'll hire management, hire HR, fire workers, hire AI, etc. And around and 'round we go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Meeho
like this
Sitting down, hands on keyboard and writing actual code is pretty low on the pile of what developers "do", and has been for a long time. Sure, junior level people made that their whole thing and cut their teeth on it, but once you spend more than a few years as a developer, writing code became a blocker to the real, nitty gritty, and difficult work. That work domain, AI hasn't yet cracked the nut on, and likely won't at least for a few more years.
 
but once you spend more than a few years as a developer, writing code became a blocker to the real, nitty gritty, and difficult work.

Two questions. If you use AI to write code instead of hiring junior developers, what happens in say 4-5 years if there aren't enough new people to do that work?

What are some examples of that real, nitty-gritty work? and why is that difficult?
 
Two questions. If you use AI to write code instead of hiring junior developers, what happens in say 4-5 years if there aren't enough new people to do that work?

What are some examples of that real, nitty-gritty work? and why is that difficult?
I think what a "junior developer" is and what role they fill is fundamentally changed now. "AI" is your junior dev on the team. There's no good answer on the overall pipeline for getting folks the experience that usually came with it, yet. But it's a new problem and one the industry will work through. It's going to be very, very rough for anyone who's tried to break into the space and will be that way for at least another year or two.

System design, especially complex systems where AI just utterly falls apart.
Product/feature decomposition. Figuring out what should be built and why, and how it fits into everything else.
Business needs and how they fit into the product.
Risk, incident management, and triaging.

Did CAD kill architects' careers? Did Excel kill off accountants? Nah.

AI is the mechanical tool that software devs used to enact business logic and goals. Are Junior devs still going to need to learn how to handcraft CRUD apps? Nah. Will they need to start understanding how the existing APIs interact, and how to ask the right questions and design the next feature that customers + the business wants fitted in? Yup.
 
Do you trust a manager with no dev and ops experience to have actually caught this? Are they just going to delegate that responsibility to yet another agent? Do you think they went though code review, went though dev and test environments, and finally rolled out the change?

Or is all that just going to be another cut corner because they can move oh so fast now...
No, yes, no.
You answered your own statement, in the end.

Layoffs in 2026:
  • Facebook = 20%
  • Amazon Web Services = ~19%
  • Microsoft = 4%
  • Block = 40%
FWIW, I never said I like this. I expect my role and many others to get squeezed. This problem will only get worse. Prepare a Plan B and C, so you have alternatives.
coding team manager tend to have a lot of experience (usually the best coders 10 years ago that manage otheres coders) at least everywhere at worked at it was the case, by manager they do necessarily mean the HR people
^This. I'm expecting this to be more technical managers to take this role. Alternatively 1-2 lead devs will get promoted and managers will lose their jobs.
 
I think we all understand now that it was one thing saying that the radio, television, or the home computer would destroy society. That was too much of a doom and gloom stretch of the imagination not looking at how people would use those devices in the future. AI is orders of magnitude more dangerous than television or the early internet was without it. AI enables you to make everything, even old school print media like newspapers full of misinformation if the writers are submitting AI slop and not doing their due diligence as human beings anymore.
It's also fast moving into the physical realm, too. Blue collar jobs will be replaced, too. Self-checkout at retail stores was just a teaser.

Robots can 3D print themselves, you can 3D print a motor... we're nearly at the terminator stage, fellas.
 
Business needs and how they fit into the product.
The role of product management, properly speaking. In startups, the founders do the product management. In poorly led companies, that role could be performed by sales (gasp!) or sometimes engineering management.
 
The role of product management, properly speaking. In startups, the founders do the product management. In poorly led companies, that role could be performed by sales (gasp!) or sometimes engineering management.
No (to the first part -- I'm a founder, and have worked in 3 other startups being employee 15 or lower). Product management historically drives things from the user story / user journey side. Devs still need to figure out where and how to glue that into the actual product codebase(s). This paradigm is also undergoing massive shifts as well right now where PMs will sometimes (attempt to) shove MVP style code out.
 
It will help programmers, but it won't wholesale replace them.
You still need to vet the code. So you ask XYZ AI to create a program for you that handles your sensitive company information. How do you know what is actually happening with your data? Is that coding AI company monetizing it without you knowing? Is there a backdoor in it?
And as currently most AIs just scrape data and put it together and pass it off as fact. When it's usually wrong. Then what's going to happen is it's going to scrape bad data posted by other AIs that think they are right and we are going to be in a quagmire of the people that knew what to do all said, screw it and went on to something else. They have no incentive to fix it, just to be outsourced again.
Vast industries are going to try to move as much as they can into AI without looking at the long term impacts. Talent will be gone, no one will go to school to learn. We are going to experience Idiocracy in real time within our lifetimes because of AI. It has electrolytes, it's what plants crave.
 
It will help programmers, but it won't wholesale replace them.
You still need to vet the code. So you ask XYZ AI to create a program for you that handles your sensitive company information. How do you know what is actually happening with your data? Is that coding AI company monetizing it without you knowing? Is there a backdoor in it?
And as currently most AIs just scrape data and put it together and pass it off as fact. When it's usually wrong. Then what's going to happen is it's going to scrape bad data posted by other AIs that think they are right and we are going to be in a quagmire of the people that knew what to do all said, screw it and went on to something else. They have no incentive to fix it, just to be outsourced again.
Vast industries are going to try to move as much as they can into AI without looking at the long term impacts. Talent will be gone, no one will go to school to learn. We are going to experience Idiocracy in real time within our lifetimes because of AI. It has electrolytes, it's what plants crave.
Or, you'll get contractors/consultants like my dad, who retired, but was one of the only guys who really knew how all the (automation) software worked and had the discs and drivers to go with it. For a while, he got paid a lot, because in the end, it was still cheaper than paying someone who didn't really know what they were doing and didn't have all the tools to do the work, since it would be weeks or longer (if they ever got it working) and time is big money.

It won't be exactly the same, because we're talking software, and these companies may have gone through so many iterations that whatever knowledge you had is no longer useful. But it is an option for some, I'm sure.
 
Back
Top