Apple Arcade games are all universal across iOS, iPadOS, tvOS and MacOS. Things like Civ 7 and NBA 2K26 typically run well across all of the platforms unless they're really old devices.
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Apple intros MacBook Neo: $599 with an iPhone chip
- Thread starter Aurelius
- Start date
Apple Arcade games are all universal across iOS, iPadOS, tvOS and MacOS. Things like Civ 7 and NBA 2K26 typically run well across all of the platforms unless they're really old devices.
I am completely out of touch of that world, but I thought there was not a strick requirement from apple.
Say this:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dead-cells/id1626984813
They still take time to list supported device and just say iPhone, ipad, AppleTV
in the compatibility list no MacOs show up and at the top we see an Arcade logo and that a game with controller support, I could imagine more common for touchscreen games, they will just not show up when you open the arcade store/menu from a MacOS device
If you switch to the Mac store, it'll let you search and then give you a link to it in the Mac App Store on your Macbook to download it. I'm not sure about Dead Cells+ though, it may only be for iOS, iPadOS and tvOS. Things like Sneaky Sasquatch, NBA2k26 and Civilization VII are games that are on MacOS as well.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sneaky-sasquatch/id1465346522?mt=12
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nba-2k26-arcade-edition/id6746148175?platform=mac
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sid-meiers-civilization-vii/id6744373452
It may be just Apple Arcade Originals that are fully cross platform.
PSA: Neo won’t work with some MacBook USB-C hubs
https://www.macworld.com/article/3086676/psa-neo-wont-work-with-some-macbook-usb-c-hubs.html
TL;DR: the Neo's only got one USB3 port, so some regular dual-port hubs won't work right on it. They gave the example of one hub whose back port only does power delivery pass-thru, while the front port handles all the other functionality including HDMI. Put it on a Neo, and all the other USB ports will still work, but only at USB2 speeds, and the HDMI output won't work at all.
I wonder why Apple cheaped out on the second port. Sounds like a product differentiation FU.
https://www.macworld.com/article/3086676/psa-neo-wont-work-with-some-macbook-usb-c-hubs.html
TL;DR: the Neo's only got one USB3 port, so some regular dual-port hubs won't work right on it. They gave the example of one hub whose back port only does power delivery pass-thru, while the front port handles all the other functionality including HDMI. Put it on a Neo, and all the other USB ports will still work, but only at USB2 speeds, and the HDMI output won't work at all.
I wonder why Apple cheaped out on the second port. Sounds like a product differentiation FU.
Isn't it just because it's a mobile chip, so it was never designed to support multiple USB ports natively?
It's a simple byproduct of using the A18 Pro. The controller in that chip only supports USB-C at full speed through one port — Apple couldn't make it do more without revising the silicon itself. I don't think we'll see a second fast port unless Apple decides that it's worth overengineering iPhone chips for the sake of the Neo.
And while it's easy to be cynical, I'd argue that's key to the Neo costing $599. Apple can use an off-the-shelf mobile chip that lets it spend on other aspects (like the build and display). Potentially a small price to pay.
Maybe? I don't really know. Would have been nice for them to add an extra hub controller.
Did you see the teardown, it's bascially a phone pcb in there. At least they give it another port that you can dedicate to charging and then use the full featured 3.2 gen 2 port for any actual connectivity you'd need. The 12" Macbook only had the single usb-c 3 port in comparison.
longblock454
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Anybody in the know estimated the BOM cost? If Apple sells millions of these what will the impact be?
Nothing yet, but I wouldn't lean too heavily on BOM. Those estimates aren't always accurate and, more importantly, don't reflect the real cost of the system (R&D, for instance). Let's put it this way: Apple designed a physical-click trackpad just for the Neo after more than a decade of using haptic feedback.
If the ASUS co-CEO's reaction is any indication, the PC industry will have to adjust. This category has been insulated in that it's largely been limited to Windows vendors competing with each other over small changes in specs and some very bland designs. Apple is coming in with a fundamentally different approach: it's using a phone chip (even a Snapdragon X or X2 could be more expensive) and an emphasis on lasting qualities like the aesthetics.
Look at this like you would the original iMac... if that iMac had been more competitive on price. When it arrived, most PCs were generic beige towers (including Apple's); computer design became more interesting soon afterward, even if few rivals wanted to make colorful all-in-ones. Companies had to either respond to the iMac or risk Apple taking their lunch. My theory is that you'll see a wave of budget laptops in 2027 that try to echo the Neo's cool factor, and maybe even switch from x86 to ARM.
I didn't. I find the concept of the device relatively interesting but not enough to dig into it at all or even watch any reviews, because I'm not in the Apple ecosystem.
I suspect there are a number of other Android SoCs that could be the basis of a decent entry-level laptop.
MS sort of kinda tried that...
Imagine if they had really worked on windows and just got off the shelf Qcom parts. Tried to hit well priced instead of trying to sell north of $1k windows arm books.
If Valve ever manages to ship the steam frame... its using a snapdragon8 gen3. Basically a Linux powered phone PC.
If I was one of the OEMs... I would be inquiring. If you could score a ton of Gen 3 or Gen 4 chips from Qcom. It might make a good platform for a Neo clone. Ship em with Linux.... Valve is already working on the open source drivers. You could just piggy back on their work with FEX. Setup an aggressive Zram like cachyos has. Probably be a good solution to the current supply issues. Higher end stuff sales might dip, but try and push a bunch of tinker boxes.
I mean I would also be making calls to Valve. They were willing to do SteamOS for competing handhelds. Perhaps they would be willing to do steamos for a Neo like device running a Gen 3 or 4 snapdraggon as well. Valve could have a a third party steam book ecosystem. (though maybe you don't want to advertise it as a gaming device.)
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Very likely; a Snapdragon 8 Elite from the past couple of years would be a prime candidate. It's just a question of whether or not Qualcomm and partners can adapt it to a PC in a way that costs less than the Snapdragon X line.
Apple's edge, of course, is that it doesn't need to partner with a separate chip designer. And that puts any would-be challengers at a disadvantage; even if Qualcomm had a direct equivalent ready right now, it would take months for a vendor to design that into a product. So, barring surprises, we're realistically looking at 2027 for a Snapdragon-based answer to the Neo.
DukenukemX
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It depends on how far back you go with Intel. I wouldn't touch anything with Rapture Lake since they're going to be very inefficient and probably don't have Arc graphics. Core Ultra and better are probably fine and can be acquired for cheap. Core Ultra 200 series like Lunar Lake are a good choice. All the laptops I linked I believe are Lunar Lake with the one exception being Ryzen.
It's already been mentioned but I'll say it again and that's because it's a cell phone SoC. It wasn't designed with the intention to be a proper laptop chip. This is something people here don't understand in that Apple just took leftover A18 Pro's and slapped them into a Macbook and called it a day. Which says a lot about the sales of iPhones with A18 Pro's as well as iPad's.
Linux has methods to overcome this but the main problem has it's always been is dependencies. This can be fixed by including the dependencies like how AppImage and Flatpack does it. Also things like XWayland and Pipewire-pulse. Also, the main CPU for Linux is still x86 just like on Windows. If there's source code then it can always been updated to work on newer Linux distros with difference CPU architectures.
Microsoft is doing that. Windows backwards compatibility and x86 has nothing to do with it. Anytime Microsoft tries to "Modernize" Windows, there's always a catch 22, or it's done badly.
Windows RT which was Microsoft's first attempt to move onto ARM had massive limitations. Besides not being able to run any x86 software, you could only get the software from the Microsoft Store. Windows 8 also sucked hard because of the many terrible choices Microsoft forced onto users. Nothing to do with Legacy.
View: https://youtu.be/WTYet-qf1jo?si=lu55LvI60qhfN2Ud
Not legacy related but because Microsoft sucks at their job.
I wouldn't brag about MacOS either as it's market share is nearing that of Desktop Linux. 3% Linux vs 5% MacOS isn't exactly a game changer. I'm not including ChromeOS because no respectable Linux fanboy would ever consider that Linux.
Will the Neo give Apple market share? Yes, because this is marketed towards schools and as we know the teachers in those schools aren't very smart and will buy them up like crazy because they still believe the iPhone was the first ever smart phone. Not exactly Apple's first adventure into getting their products into schools like the eMac. Considering how expensive the Neo's are, I would expect them to sell like gangbusters, like every other attempt from Apple to get into schools. These type of products usually never see updates from Apple and fade away from existence.
View: https://youtu.be/KuBkgZd2gH4?si=cIOOq2eiUZswyXDC
Of course they tested it with Cinebench and not even the latest updated version. I have no idea what's different with Cinebench 2026 honestly.
using redshift 2026 instead of 2024, cinebench is just a script that run an actual regular redshift render (imagine a benchmark that would ship with Blender and one renderer, a scene and would run it, time it and score it).
cinebench is not a synthetic benchmark, it is an production/real work accurate benchmark, fully dependant on what one of the most used renderer change over time.
2026 redshift changed a lot, changed the compiler used in a major modernisation to take advantage of latest cpu/gpu newer instruction set (like avx-512)
even at just 105mm, TSMC N3E will not go that cheap, if they get really great yield and 550 working die per 12 inch and a good rebate from the ~$20,000 price at say $17k, they start at $30 just for that original wafer cost and nothing else. In old 12inch pricing days they would have been ~$10
Sinofsky (who's clearly in a position to know intentions) pointed out how Microsoft's legacy dependence partly hurt the company at the time. The company wanted to move to a new app model, but users unsurprisingly weren't willing to come along for the ride. Windows RT and Windows 8 had their own problems that Sinofsky doesn't really address, but shifting app models did play a role.
As we've repeatedly told you, StatCounter only reflects partial usage share, not market share. It doesn't account for everyone using a given platform. Apple's actual 2025 market share went up ever-so-slightly to 9.2%, according to Gartner. Still not spectacular, but I'd expect the Neo to change things — particularly as memory and CPU shortages force competitors to raise prices.
No, the Neo isn't Apple's first foray into school, but it's also a very different beast and is being aimed at the general consumer market (even in education, it's pitched more toward college students). The eMac launched at $1,099, and that was in 2002 dollars; it mainly left in 2005 as the combination of the iMac G5, the transition to laptops, and the Intel switch negated the need for it.
This is Apple's first laptop to sell far under $999 brand new. Full stop. There's no reason to think it's a blip on the radar that will fade away, and it might even become a major revenue driver. When companies like ASUS are publicly nervous (and supposedly Microsoft/Intel/AMD as well), you know it should make an impact.
I'll remind you that you have a long history of making "this will be a flop" predictions that don't come true, so you might not want to pronounce doom for the Neo when it's not even a week old.
well worldwide stats will not look that great, in the developed world, MacOS + OS X is often 25/27% versus under 3% for Linux, say in the US, canada, UK, australia, :https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america
africa is only 2%, asia ~6%
Here is the thing though... the volume discount they get is pure fucking insanity. They are selling aprox 250m iphones every single year... that requires 250m chips. They also shove the same chip into tablets, screens, their streaming device. And now their low end laptop.
These are not costing Apple a lot. They have designed them so the fails are still useful in other devices. All chip designers at this point lay the die out so if parts of it are hit with errors the un effected area make the chip still useful for something. These iphone chips have very low 100% write off rates.
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westrock2000
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iFixit did a similar teardown and also gave it very high marks for being exceptionally easy to repair. Seems the hardest thing to replace would be keyboard and that's only because it would take the longest to get to, not because there was anything inhibitive about replacing it.
They remark that this could be to get a leg up on upcoming EU consumer repair laws, but at least kudos to Apple for doing it ahead of time as well as at their most consumer friendly price point.
IT bro's at organizations are going to love being able to pop parts out quick and easy.
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I don't think this is going to fail at this pricepoint. I'm going to be switching most of my older clients to this Neo. Then get them on the yearly Apple Care + warranty which lasts forever until canceled and is dirt cheap. It makes maintaining and helping them with their computers infinitely easier. I now have the option of them picking between a Mac Mini and this Neo depending on their needs. I'm happy this exists.
DukenukemX
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Steven Jay Sinofsky was president of the Windows Division and he resigned around 2012, which is around the time everyone hated Windows 8. You don't resign when things are going so well. Then Windows 10 was released and wasn't entirely a pile of crap like Windows 8. This is not the person to listen to on Windows matters.
I told you that Windows RT limited software through the Microsoft Store. Of course users didn't want to move to this new app model. Windows 8 was so bad that running multiple Windows wasn't very possible. There's a reason that not even MacOS does this silly dumb crap.
I've said before many times that if Apple sales grew then it would reflect with StatCounter in some way. No statistic is accurate but that doesn't mean you should dismiss it entirely because of that. According to StatCounter, Linux representation had also gone down. That's not hard to believe given that we're in school season.
Because they know they can't compete with Apple's mind share. The saving grace for companies like Asus, Lenovo, HP, and Dell is that their laptops are generally priced low enough that Apple isn't a factor. Lets be honest here in that the Neo is a terrible laptop. Slow CPU, terrible I/O, and 8GB of ram.
I would say it's the opposite. Except for Nvidia's stock market going to the moon. I said it wouldn't go anywhere and it went everywhere. I will say this in that the Neo will sell well enough that Apple might update it for newer better hardware in the future. But it's main market is going to be schools. The Neo is such a terrible product mainly because of it's 8GB of ram. Anyone who will willing buy this over other competing Windows 16GB laptops is going to have buyers remorse. Everyone here claims it's a school laptop, but they also hoping that regular people will buy it . Regular people buying these will hate it.
I will say this in that Apple knows something is up with $600 refurbished Macbooks because I can't find any. Either you find Macbooks with M1 chips with 8GB of ram and 128GB of storage for $400, which is a no, or you find M1's with 16GB of ram with 512GB of storage for $700. Which does make that particular M1 a better buy over the Neo just for the 16GB of ram, but it's a hard sell for a "Refurbished" product. It does have 3 Thunderbolt 4 (USB-C) ports with HDMI and a SD card slot. What this tells me is that people have been snatching up $600 used Macbooks and Apple wants in on that market.
Some synthetic benchmarks in their core have real programs inside, but that's not the reason why you should use them. They are exploitable. It's the same reason why the Nurburgring is a stupid benchmarks for cars because at some point the engineers will make those cars good for the Nurburgring and nothing else. This is why I have a problem ETA Prime claiming that the A18 pro in the Neo has really fast at IPC like other Apple chips but is really terrible at IPC stuff like games and Phoronix benchmarks. This is all assuming that nobody is cheating at these synthetic tests like how VW will have software that would detect the test and tune the car to pass emissions. We've had this happen with Synthetics like 3DMark with Nvidia. This is why Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus tend to avoid using synthetic tests.
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Rk9e5RYjGT8?si=ifSjnq4E8GD94Bk-
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i am not sure how you turn a real program into a synthetic benchmark, but has we said cinebench is in no way synthetic, not more than the BMW render test in blender.
Old games are "optimised for" benchmark, with game ready drivers for them, cpu scheduler that recognize and optimised for, no cpu will be made for redshift and nothing else, specially yet to be released version of redshift when the cpu was designed for.
Apple chips as extremelly high IPC, sure if you look at multithreaded test of 8 core or more CPU that cost more than the whole Mac 4 pcore computer
https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/2
where it does not scale 1:1 with core, the low 13 watt mini compile code faster than a 80-110watt 9800x3d/9700x, they clock at a max 4.4 ghz vs 5.2/5.7 boost something for that competition, I am sure a single Apple p-core versus other cores IPC look perfectly fine.
westrock2000
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I had the original Windows RT Surface and for the time, it was very cool hardware for how cheap it was....think I paid $200 at Microcenter for Black Friday.
Being the introduction to Microsoft Store for me, yes I agree, any thing depending on the Microsoft store is doomed.
But the immediate problem that I saw with it was that there was no Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) availability for Microsoft Office. Which mean no macros or any type of customizing to Excel or other Office programs. Cool hardware, but basically useless from day one.
Sure he is. You’ll want to keep his biases in mind, but he was also privy to (and in charge of) internal decisions that make his hindsight valuable. Even Ballmer has admitted making key mistakes during his tenure.
There’s still a large delta between SC and real adoption, and changes in sales are only going to affect an incomplete web tracker in the abstract. It’s not something you can rely on, and shouldn’t when shipment data is available.
Mindshare is only part of it. The A18 Pro fares well against the chips it will compete against in its price class, the I/O is acceptable, and 8GB isn’t a dealbreaker so far.
Also, if you browse the competition’s websites, it’s hard to find significantly cheaper options unless they’re Chromebooks or on steep discounts. I actually thought I’d find more $400-ish Windows systems… apparently not!
How’s that “Switch 2 will be widely discounted during the holidays because it’s not selling well” prediction going for you?
Apple is very much aiming the Neo at everyday users, with students a major consideration. And so far even the more cynical reviewers are happy, even if their concerns about 8GB in the long run are certainly valid.
We’ve already talked about refurbs. The volume isn’t there to justify creating a whole new product just to replace them. The more likely, more boring answer is that some people were waiting to see which laptop to buy and decided on used Air models. And need I remind you that the M1 line is nearly six years old?
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One of the reasons for this product would be that Apple finally remembered that if you want the young generation to turn into future customers (and maybe evangelists) of your more expensive products, you need something cheap enough for them to afford that brings them into the ecosystem. If you don't fail on product execution, you now have a large amount of people primed to be future customers of your more expensive Mac products in 5+ years. The Mac mini and MacBook Air did an ok job of this (it's why I now own a Mac Studio), but still lacked a low enough price point to make it great for basic educational and corporate needs. The Neo fills that void. Obviously how well this plan will work is yet to be seen and will probably hinge on how much effort Apple puts into software and OS support so that it remains a smooth experience despite it's limitations.
DukenukemX
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Why when he quit his job?
First, the A18 Pro isn't what I'd call fairing well against other chips. It's only saving grace is single threaded performance which I'd like to see other benchmarks that aren't Cinebench and Geekbench. At least use Cinebench 2026 if reviewers are going to pretend to be experts. It's multithreaded performance is worse, and it's GPU performance is trash. The 8GB just makes the whole thing extreme trash, because as I've shown with the Niktek video I've linked that the 8GB of memory can slow the machine down by a factor of 5x. No amount of Cinebench testing is going to show that. Then there's the I/O, all two USB ports. One of which is USB2.0. Are you serious?
If this were an Asus, HP, Dell laptop with these specifications, then they'd get laughed out of business. They'd file for bankruptcy. The Neo is rubbish. Keep in mind that Microsoft tried this with ARM laptops as well as Intel with their ATOM chips.
I already found a lot better products and you dismissed them due to the screen not being as good or the thickness is too thick. The Dell 14 Plus I found is better is every way except the nits on the screen isn't as bright as the Neo's.
Excuse me but what part of there being discounts for the Switch 2 during the holiday season did you miss? Nintendo didn't do the sales discount, but Amazon and Walmart did. Or the part where the PS5 sold 1 million more units than the Switch 2?
I'm not saying the answer is refurb everything but that Apple clearly sees an existing market to tap into.
Why does that matter? Does the M1 outperform the A18 Pro? If yes then Apple should have at least used M1 chips. Or do what AMD and Intel like to do from time to time and bring them back with slightly new names.
Stopped by the local apple authorized reseller while at the mall today with my step daughter to take a look at the Neo as a replacement for her 4 year old school laptop thats on its last legs.
Not an apple fan at all but the build quality seemed very nice and it appears they are using the same trackpad as the air which is top notch, screen seems to be nice for the 10 min of playing around we got with it.
Couldnt have bought one today since they were completely sold out of the 256gb in all colors.
Not an apple fan at all but the build quality seemed very nice and it appears they are using the same trackpad as the air which is top notch, screen seems to be nice for the 10 min of playing around we got with it.
Couldnt have bought one today since they were completely sold out of the 256gb in all colors.
It’s closer to an M4 in single core across the board, and on par with an M1 in multi-core; that makes it better than choosing an M1 in most respects.
8GB does limit what you can do and might be a headache in a few years, but it’s not the showstopper some make it out to be.
I’d also point back to the numerous times Apple released products with controversial specs and succeeded because it nailed aspects others hadn’t addressed before. Take the original iMac: “no floppy drive? USB and no SCSI? Doomed!” But its design and ease of use won people over, and the seeming shortcomings didn’t matter much in the end.
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its like selling tvs. the best specs don't sell them in the store, which one appears better does. As long as the person is happy with it, they will likely buy the next one or the higher end versions later in life
1996HondaAcc0rd
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A big thing you’re neglecting about many alternatives (for college students at least), be they refurbished or alternative brands, is that they aren’t necessarily in college bookstores. Where you automatically have the education discount applied and can use financial assistance to purchase it (students don’t typically want to max out their financial assistance). Frankly most students don’t care about marginally better specs either, they have peers with MacBooks already as the test case and when you routinely see guys with other laptops wed to the side or rear of the room just so their laptop doesn’t die, well it’s not a great look for more powerful laptops.
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Apple's MacBook Pro 14 cannot handle the M5 Max
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-s-MacBook-Pro-14-cannot-handle-the-M5-Max.1249861.0.html
I would've posted this in a different thread but I didn't see on about the M5 laptops on the first page, and didn't think it was worse its own new thread.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-s-MacBook-Pro-14-cannot-handle-the-M5-Max.1249861.0.html
I get that this is the tradeoff: power or long battery life. I'd be annoyed at something that's gimped this hard, though.
I would've posted this in a different thread but I didn't see on about the M5 laptops on the first page, and didn't think it was worse its own new thread.
DukenukemX
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Except in GPU performance and in I/O. The thing is that the M1 shouldn't be the alternative option, as I think that would be the M2. The reason it isn't is because Apple is either still producing A18 Pro's or had already overproduced A18 Pro's and are now finding a way to get rid of them.
I would argue that 8GB is a huge problem for productivity because at some point your application will crash due to a lack of ram. Not only that but whatever speed you see from the A18 Pro is hindered by it's ram, as the system will be spending a lot of time trashing the SSD.
Unless you're thinking of this iMac then yes it was stupid.
The reason Apple keeps getting away with "controversial designs" is because Apple's fans will excuse it to no end. To a degree this didn't work as we saw this with the IBM PowerPC chips which for a while Apple did get away with fake made up benchmarks until they couldn't. There's a reason why Apple never had widespread marketshare for their Macs until they switched over to Intel. At some point the limitations of their hardware does catch up to them and will force their hand to make better decisions with their hardware. Look at Thunderbolt and USB-C and how for a while every Apple fan was excusing Apple for not having transitioned over to USB-C until the EU forced them and now it's the best decision Apple has ever been force to make.
Lets be honest with ourselves in that if HP or Dell had made a similar laptop, I'd also be criticizing them and you'd be there with me. But this is Apple and Apple can never do a wrong.
I don't know about College Bookstores but every major computer manufacturer has a student discount program. Dell has one of course. I'm not sure if it applies to that Dell 14 Plus I found. Now that I think about it, why don't I pretend to be in college and get discounts?
That's usually how Apple products tend to sell, as in people buy into FOMO. Arguably, Apple products tend to be the worst when it comes to specs. Though Apple has been trying really hard to win at the spec game, but usually it comes down to screen and speaker quality as Apple has shown they consistently have the best picture and audio quality for their laptops. There's always the perceived build quality that people assume that Apple has, which doesn't matter if it's true or not because that's how people feel about Apple products.
The problem for Apple is that a lot of people don't care about this stuff. I'm a spec guy and things like picture quality and audio quality do not matter to me. Especially nits because my eyes are sensitive to light so the brightness on the screen goes way down unless I'm outdoors which is when the brightness goes way up. Speakers don't matter because I use headphones unless I want everyone around me to judge me on my Sonic the Hedgehog music. I also don't care for MacOS because Windows will run everything. Windows is backwards compatible with older software and everyone and their grandma makes software for it. The same cannot be said for MacOS.
If better screens, speakers, and build quality make sales numbers go up, then Dell, HP, and etc would be doing it. Instead, they focus on specs because their customers focus on specs. This is why sub $600 Windows laptops are plastic as hell but at least have 16GB of ram. Though the majority of sub $600 laptops I found are aluminum or at the very least have the top shell made out of aluminum. The problem for Windows laptop manufacturers with the NEO is that this might mean they'll have to put in better quality screens and speakers to compete, but not only that but also include better specs. Remember that people who buy Windows laptops are focused on specs.
This was a problem even with the M4 in the 14" models as I remember Just Josh saying to never buy M4 Max with a 14" screen size. Apple has always had crap cooling even when they were with Intel. Apple users don't care if their laptops thermal throttle, which is why the Macbook Air has no fan. It's a really fast chip, until it overheats and isn't.
View: https://youtu.be/iiCBYAP_Sgg?si=-Wb1cvLtr6SsK32_
DukenukemX
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I don't think it's overstock (you wouldn't want to base an entire product around variable supply). It's more that Apple already has a production pipeline and can make the A18 Pro at the costs and volumes that make the $599 price realistic. M1 and M2 are built on older manufacturing processes, so Apple would either need to find new homes for their production (and thus negate cost advantages) or update them to produce them at modern fabs.
That's not how Macs work. If you hit the physical RAM ceiling, macOS invokes swap memory. You'll take a performance hit with some tasks when you do, but it's very rare that a Mac will outright crash. And if it does... well, you were probably doing something that no $599 laptop can realistically do.
Of course I'm thinking of that iMac. It literally saved the company and forced competitors to rethink design strategies (even though few built all-in-ones in response). It's part of why many of the electronics from the turn of the millennium were translucent.Unless you're thinking of this iMac then yes it was stupid.
The reason Apple keeps getting away with "controversial designs" is because Apple's fans will excuse it to no end. To a degree this didn't work as we saw this with the IBM PowerPC chips which for a while Apple did get away with fake made up benchmarks until they couldn't. There's a reason why Apple never had widespread marketshare for their Macs until they switched over to Intel. At some point the limitations of their hardware does catch up to them and will force their hand to make better decisions with their hardware. Look at Thunderbolt and USB-C and how for a while every Apple fan was excusing Apple for not having transitioned over to USB-C until the EU forced them and now it's the best decision Apple has ever been force to make.
Lets be honest with ourselves in that if HP or Dell had made a similar laptop, I'd also be criticizing them and you'd be there with me. But this is Apple and Apple can never do a wrong.
Apple's growth can't be pinned solely on fans. Demand for the iPod exploded well past Apple's Mac user base, and the iPhone grew well past the iPod base. Fans help, but it's more that Apple tries to solve enduring problems rather than chasing numbers. The iMac wasn't meant to outrun Windows PCs (Apple claimed it did, but I'll agree the company was cherry-picking tests for a long while); it was meant to simplify computing, get you online quickly, and of course shake up design.
Lightning hung around for far longer than it should have, but remember also that Apple was an early adopter for USB-C on computers and actually contributed to that spec; it was a key architect of Thunderbolt.
The problem with asking "if HP or Dell had made a similar laptop" is that... well, they wouldn't. It's not in their corporate mindset. They can make some very good systems (the higher-end HP OmniBook models and the revived Dell XPS, for example), but at the low end it's all about manufacturing costs, spec matching, and sheer volume. Apple clearly wants to sell a lot of Neos, but as with the iMac it's more about solving some perpetual design problems than shaving every last dime or matching exactly what others are doing.
Does this mean I think 8GB of RAM and the limited I/O won't be limitations for some? No, it doesn't. But I see the Neo disrupting the market precisely because it considers things that rivals have ignored for years. It's relatively easy for Apple to catch up on specs; it's harder for the competition to catch up on design.
DukenukemX
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The A18 Pro is built on TSMC's 3nm (N3E) while the A19 Pro is on 3nm N3P. You could easily move onto the A19 Pro and at least have a current chip in the Neo's. The A18 Pro is 98.7 mm2 while the A19 Pro is 105 mm2. Not exactly breaking the bank here. As for the M2's to be in production, it would be even cheaper since they're built on TSMC's 5nm. Really does seem like Apple had a lot of A18 Pro's laying around.
According to Dawid Does Tech who is now a born again Mac user, he did run into stability issues with his Mac with only 16GB of ram. Specifically Adobe Premiere where it does crash on MacOS, but less often than Windows. All OS's do the ram swap thing, but MacOS will (pause) the application which is really weird. Now imagine what 8GB is going to be like.
That thing was the butt end joke of every computer conversation. I'm not sure how it did in sales but it's a design that nobody has since replicated, for a reason.
That's how it always seems to me. There are far too many situations where I run into a Mac user who thinks their machine can do things that no Windows machine could hope to do, like H.264. I remember this one person when I went to Chubs Institute that he swore that my Windows machine could never play H.264 videos. He gave me the video and I played it to his shock and awe. The reason is because I installed K-Lite Codec Pack because I'm a pirate you see. That was over 20 years ago, which means I'm old and somehow K-Lite is still around.
The Dell 14 Plus shows they can, but they don't make a habit of it. The sub $600 market depends on consumers not caring about things like picture and audio quality, with aluminum housing being a laughable option. This does put much more stress on Windows laptop manufacturers because not only do they need the better specs but thanks to the Neo they may need to worry about better picture and audio quality.
I also don't see the Neo lasting as long as the Macbook Air due to it being a gateway for consumers to buy more expensive Macbooks. That's what the Mac Mini is also about, as it's a product meant to get you hooked to buying better and more expensive Apple products. Look at Dawid Does Tech where he bought a 16GB Macbook and he's already bought another Mac product, the Mac Studio. All due to the ram limitations of the 16GB Macbook.
I still see the Neo being a frequently returned item on Amazon, just like the Snapdragon laptops. Somehow, the Neo makes the Snapdragon laptops look like a good buy, and the Snapdragons were awful laptops. I think Qualcomm is still working out the bugs for them after nearly two years of release. It'll do a much better job in schools because students aren't expected to give a crap if their laptop can run Adobe Premiere while having 20 FireFox tabs open. Log into your Google Docs and do your homework Billy.
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At $599 total system price, there really isn't much room in terms of chip costs. While neither of us is privy to what Apple pays TSMC, it's reasonable to say that a late 2024 chip based on a slightly older process, especially a binned chip, will cost less than an up-to-the-minute part. And notably, Apple doesn't have to worry about chip supply for one product cutting into sales of another (if the Neo proves popular, that could theoretically impact iPhone 17 Pro production).
As for 5nm production, there are a couple of issues. To start, it's now on the trailing edge of TSMC's main output. Still significant, but a potential concern if Apple needs higher volumes. There's also the matter of battery size. The Neo is $599 in part because it only needs a 36.5 watt-hour battery. The M2 Air had a 52.6 watt-hour pack, so that could add to the cost.
I used an iMac with 8GB of RAM well past when that was considered enough, including for Photoshop; it was stable. And I've seen numerous real-world tests by now that show 8GB is still viable and isn't crashing apps. Not what I'd rely on for serious creative work, but the Neo isn't aimed at that audience.
The iMac G3 was the top-selling computer in the US for the first three months of its release, and it represented the first time Mac sales had grown since 1995. Apple's computer market share grew from 3 to 5 percent, and it swung from an $878 million loss in 1997 to a $114 million profit in 1998.
And crucially, it was addressing an unfulfilled need. While 20 percent of early iMac buyers were Windows converts, it's more notable that almost half of them were new to computers... period. Apple was courting that turn-of-the-millennium desire to get online from people who were intimidated by the clunky designs and experiences of Windows PCs (as someone who did ISP support from 2000-2004, I can vouch for that). The Neo doesn't have that novelty going for it, but it is a different approach to the budget laptop segment than we've seen before.
What it seems and what it is aren't necessarily the same thing. You do occasionally run into Apple cheerleaders, but consider that there are over 2.5 billion active Apple devices worldwide as of the start of 2026 — only a small fraction of those owners are dyed-in-the-wool fans.
Besides, if we're going to trade anecdotes... I've also seen my fair share of Windows and (to a lesser degree) Linux proponents who hold on to untrue stereotypes of Apple products, like people who assume you're forced to buy Mac apps from the App Store.
That's the thing: the characteristics of a $600 Windows laptop are so entrenched by now that you can predict the capabilities without reading the spec sheet (mediocre 1080p display, lousy speakers, usually plastic or a cheap alloy, sometimes dodgy keyboard/trackpads). I'll be happy if the Neo forces Windows vendors to step up as that helps everyone.
The Mac mini has been around since 2005. If Apple only carried budget computers for just long enough to drive initial upsells, people wouldn't be snapping up the M4 model en masse right now.
The Neo is a better buy than most Snapdragon laptops... and I can speak from experience. There are some amazing options like the Surface line, but there are also a lot of low-end Snapdragon X machines that are slow and somehow have modest battery life. And paradoxically, app compatibility is sometimes better on the Mac side.