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Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock, a network of AI cameras used by ICE, feds, and police

MrGuvernment

MrGuvernment

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Ring initially gave access with out telling people, "opt-in" by default, so they pulled it back, then they added it back and apparently you need to opt in now... and now this..

Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock, a network of AI cameras used by ICE, feds, and police
https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/16/a...rk-of-ai-cameras-used-by-ice-feds-and-police/
​

Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock, a network of AI cameras used by ICE, feds, and police​

Amazon’s surveillance camera maker Ring announced a partnership on Thursday with Flock, a maker of AI-powered surveillance cameras that share footage with law enforcement.
Now agencies that use Flock can request that Ring doorbell users share footage to help with “evidence collection and investigative work.”
Flock cameras work by scanning the license plates and other identifying information about cars they see. Flock’s government and police customers can also make natural language searches of their video footage to find people who match specific descriptions. However, AI-powered technology used by law enforcement has been proven to exacerbate racial biases.
On the same day that Ring announced this partnership, 404 Media reported that ICE, the Secret Service, and the Navy had access to Flock’s network of cameras. By partnering with Ring, Flock could potentially access footage from millions more cameras.
Ring has long had a poor track record with keeping customers’ videos safe and secure. In 2023, the FTC ordered the company to pay $5.8 million over claims that employees and contractors had unrestricted access to customers’ videos for years.
Click to expand...
 
DukenukemX said:
Another reason I'm glad I stopped using Ring.
Click to expand...

But that's part of the problem.

Your neighbors have them. Businesses also have systems partnering with flock.

We are rapidly getting to the pint where it doesn't matter if your phone or even your car is leaking data anymore. Flock and systems like it track your every move anyway.

If camera density is high enough they don't even need to get a clear view of your license plate every time. They can just use AI to analyze the movement of your vehicle from camera POV to camera POV. And if you get out (or if you are visible through the window), use face recognition on you.

The dystopian future is now.

Everyone should be concerned about Flock and bullshit like them. It is mass surveillance on a scale that would make George Orwell blush.

There is some information about it in here (and a potential way to break it)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
But that's part of the problem.

Your neighbors have them. Businesses also have systems partnering with flock.

We are rapidly getting to the pint where it doesn't matter if your phone or even your car is leaking data anymore. Flock and systems like it track your every move anyway.

If camera density is high enough they don't even need to get a clear view of your license plate every time. They can just use AI to analyze the movement of your vehicle from camera POV to camera POV. And if you get out (or if you are visible through the window), use face recognition on you.

The dystopian future is now.

Everyone should be concerned about Flock and bullshit like them. It is mass surveillance on a scale that would make George Orwell blush.

There is some information about it in here (and a potential way to break it)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ
Click to expand...

I've heard of these Flock Cameras and if they're not owned by the government then a simple wirecutter can solve this problem. Some people have decided to use a cut off wheel to do the job. A simple spray can on the solar panel will disable these cameras eventually. Ring has had a history of selling their data to law enforcement which is just one of many reason I avoid Ring. I used Eufy for a while but without an SD Card the limited internal storage wore out. Now I'm using ieGeek because they have SD Cards and 128GB cards are cheap.

View: https://youtu.be/VHXEWN_nDeU?si=8RQesNjXeR-xeZ85
 
sharknice said:
It's crazy to me that some people use cloud cameras like this to watch the INSIDE of their house while they're in it.
Click to expand...
Cameras ... microphones and paying for the privilege of being spied upon and marketed to. FTN with a rusty spike! Now, I must add outside the home not sure why anyone expects privacy or thinks they have a right to it. They should not because they don't. ... The more cameras the better.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
But that's part of the problem.

Your neighbors have them. Businesses also have systems partnering with flock.

We are rapidly getting to the pint where it doesn't matter if your phone or even your car is leaking data anymore. Flock and systems like it track your every move anyway.
Click to expand...


That's the scary part. Even if you don't use any technology, everyone else does. You're on there being watched (and probably being watched and flagged for NOT using technology like everyone else). Worse than that, we are in a digital world. All of us (by nature of being on this forum) have a digital fingerprint, being tracked (even with all the no-script, Tor, VPN, etc. that you want to use), whatever. Then, those that have the cameras, the smartphones, the PC, social media (some have a lot), Alexa/Google/Siri, etc. are really the ones that not only give their own information, but yours as well. Both have Facebook? Cool, you two were in close proximity 3 times the past 2 days, you might know each other.

From Flock to cell phone tracking to social media/other algorithms to whatever else (Sneakers, Enemy of the State, other good spy movies have great examples) as well as good ol' fashioned spying techniques - if they really want to find you, they will. Outside of the Ted Kaczynski route, if they want to pull out all the stops, it's just a matter of time. And, although it sounds super sophisticated and we've been doing it for a long time with various spy technologies, a lot of this is still in it's infancy. Give it a decade or two, with huge AI farms (they aren't just for making cute anime porn pictures of furries and whatever else you weirdos are making), more access, more cameras, microphones, phones, car tracking, etc., and there will be no place you could really hide.
 
As someone who works with law enforcement a lot, you have far more to worry about "camera misuse" from civil issues like divorce or insurance companies than you do law enforcement. They don't even have the personnel to investigate crimes let alone waste time wondering what Joe Citizen is doing.

The fact of the matter is, this data actually helps in crime solving by being able to track the perpetrators. Everybody is all mad until they are the victim of a crime, and then want police to solve the case without any tools.
 
kirbyrj said:
As someone who works with law enforcement a lot, you have far more to worry about "camera misuse" from civil issues like divorce or insurance companies than you do law enforcement. They don't even have the personnel to investigate crimes let alone waste time wondering what Joe Citizen is doing.

The fact of the matter is, this data actually helps in crime solving by being able to track the perpetrators. Everybody is all mad until they are the victim of a crime, and then want police to solve the case without any tools.
Click to expand...
My Nest doorbell camera helped nab a neighborhood porch pirate, last Christmas. (y)
 
kirbyrj said:
As someone who works with law enforcement a lot, you have far more to worry about "camera misuse" from civil issues like divorce or insurance companies than you do law enforcement.
Click to expand...
I'm not particular of anyone using my camera data, let alone "misuse".
tenor.gif

They don't even have the personnel to investigate crimes let alone waste time wondering what Joe Citizen is doing.
Click to expand...
That's why they're using AI. That's why Microsoft stopped Israel from using their AI. Also, it was taking up a crap ton of storage.
The fact of the matter is, this data actually helps in crime solving by being able to track the perpetrators. Everybody is all mad until they are the victim of a crime, and then want police to solve the case without any tools.
Click to expand...
Don't care, do a real investigation. You want video footage then get a subpoena and consent from the camera owner and not from the company Ring. You can't just take peoples camera footage and do what you want because think of the children. If you want to play that game then where's the 2 minutes of camera footage of Epstein when he didn't kill himself? If your not in charge of your footage then someone else with ill intent does. This is why I hate the cloud.
 
DukenukemX said:
I'm not particular of anyone using my camera data, let alone "misuse".
View attachment 760947

That's why they're using AI. That's why Microsoft stopped Israel from using their AI. Also, it was taking up a crap ton of storage.

Don't care, do a real investigation. You want video footage then get a subpoena and consent from the camera owner and not from the company Ring. You can't just take peoples camera footage and do what you want because think of the children. If you want to play that game then where's the 2 minutes of camera footage of Epstein when he didn't kill himself? If your not in charge of your footage then someone else with ill intent does. This is why I hate the cloud.
Click to expand...

I'm not even going to argue with someone who equates "think of the children" with missing Epstein camera footage. That's just stupid.
 
kirbyrj said:
I'm not even going to argue with someone who equates "think of the children" with missing Epstein camera footage. That's just stupid.
Click to expand...
What's stupid is that you think it's OK because "crime solving". Also funny that you think Epstein and children aren't a related issue. How many Ring cameras and Flock footage was use to put anyone involved with the Epstein case in jail? I'm sure if my car is stolen that police will use every Flock and Ring camera footage to find my car. Not end up on the side of a highway with severe damage and the catalytic converter missing. Also a fine because the car was parked on the side of a highway, and gotta pay impound fees to release it.

What you don't get is that USA has different laws for regular people and the wealthy. This camera footage is just meant to suppress people, and not actually catch criminals. Anyone can point to a case where this might has solved a crime, but I can also point to a situation where camera installers wanked off to the footage. Stop being lazy and do a real investigation.

View: https://youtu.be/PXhiPZ8BLRU?si=xrDItoA65G5zIOxc
 
kirbyrj said:
As someone who works with law enforcement a lot, you have far more to worry about "camera misuse" from civil issues like divorce or insurance companies than you do law enforcement. They don't even have the personnel to investigate crimes let alone waste time wondering what Joe Citizen is doing.

The fact of the matter is, this data actually helps in crime solving by being able to track the perpetrators. Everybody is all mad until they are the victim of a crime, and then want police to solve the case without any tools.
Click to expand...
That is what AI is for. It will be used to scrub through all data and footage. A computer will deem you a threat and will track your every movement. Not to mention what corrupted officers that have access to the system will do.
 
What is funny is Orwell thought this would happen because the Government mandated it to be installed and used, but in reality the Government didn't mandate it, people just did it on their own volition for their own convenience. The government then just let themselves gain access to the available data.
 
LurkerLito said:
What is funny is Orwell thought this would happen because the Government mandated it to be installed and used, but in reality the Government didn't mandate it, people just did it on their own volition for their own convenience. The government then just let themselves gain access to the available data.
Click to expand...
Yep. Same goes for all the DNA services available now.

An unknown child is born from a one nighter, and 10 years later they get a partial match on your brother, and bam! You now have a new child.
Same goes for an old crime.
 
I don't think any company will be dumb enough to defy the secret police unless they have their bribe money ready at hand.
 
kirbyrj said:
As someone who works with law enforcement a lot, you have far more to worry about "camera misuse" from civil issues like divorce or insurance companies than you do law enforcement. They don't even have the personnel to investigate crimes let alone waste time wondering what Joe Citizen is doing.

The fact of the matter is, this data actually helps in crime solving by being able to track the perpetrators. Everybody is all mad until they are the victim of a crime, and then want police to solve the case without any tools.
Click to expand...
The issue is authorities have, and will continue, to abuse such access to data and information, all in the name of either "the children" or "your personal safety".
 
MrGuvernment said:
The issue is authorities have, and will continue, to abuse such access to data and information, all in the name of either "the children" or "your personal safety".
Click to expand...

Give me a documented example of the government "abusing" access to this data and information. The only thing I could find was that 11 times in 2022, they got footage due to an emergency situation. Incidentally, your cell phone data is already up for grabs in an emergency situation (lost or missing child, adult, etc.).

Once again, you are far more likely to be the "victim" of your data being abused by Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. for marketing purposes than you are the police abusing data.
 
Mad Maxx said:
My Nest doorbell camera helped nab a neighborhood porch pirate, last Christmas. (y)
Click to expand...

These are two very different things.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with having surveillance cameras on your property. Good old dumb surveillance cameras can be great. If you notice your package (or your neighbors package) went missing between 1pm and 2pm on Sunday when you were out having a bloody mary brunch, you can check your footage from that time, and bam, there is your video evidence.

Very few people have a problem with this.

What Flock is doing is completely different.

They operate a network of cameras - which apparently now includes Ring doorbell cameras. All of the content from all of those cameras, 24/7 is constantly being pooled together and analyzed by AI. They are using a combination of license plate reading, facial recognition and even individual vehicle recognition to track individuals movements in near real time.

And it is all logged and saved and searchable.

People worry about their phones or cars constantly streaming GPS data, but with what Flock is doing this no longer matters. As the number of cameras increase, the system might see you as you leave your neighborhood from a Ring or other device that has been opted into Flocks network. At this point it may not have had a close enough look at your face, or your license plate to know who you are, but it could tell that you got into a blue mid-sized SUV with a big scratch on the left side of the rear bumper. Then it will follow this vehicle from camera to camera within the network. Not every camera will get a good look at your face or your license plate, but it doesn't need to. Eventually one of them will, and then it will retroactively add your ID to this traveling vehicle based on either license plate or facial recognition. It can puzzle the pieces together both forward-looking and backward looking when it does.

You may have seen these in your local business parking lot?

53a9c2cd3778de7e9b24c8388ebf84bbdf80fa61.jpeg


Around here Lowe's - among others have them. They are equipped with high quality, high resolution cameras, and are often tied into Flocks network.

They are scanning the face and license plate of everyone within range, and tying it to to their travel routes identified within the system.

If the cameras don't identify you, there are RFID, NFC, Wifi and bluetooth scanners that will once you enter the store. Based on your unique fingerprint of the devices, cards and keys you are carrying with you, you are pretty much emitting a perfectly identifiable fingerprint to anyone who cares enough to scan for it.

This data is then tied to your transaction data in the store. What you bought, how much of it you bought, what you paid for it, etc. etc. They track you throughout. Collect data on what you are looking at to try to tell what you are interested in.

Heck, most large employers do this now too. They have data on exactly who comes and leaves and when they do so.

You can't opt out anymore. You could completely swear off the internet any any electronic device, even your TV (which these days is constantly scanning whatever is on the screen and who is watching it, to collect data even when you are using an external source or watching content without metadata) and you could drive a 30 year old car, and they will still be collecting all of this data on you.

And this is not some possible future dystopian sci-fi. It is happening right now.

Heck, a good friend of mine met a guy at some sort of networking conference back in 2010 whose job it was to install tracking systems in retail stores. Back then, 15 years ago, they were doing camera based facial recognition, gaze tracking at displays, tracking and fingerprinting with cell phone/RFID id data and pressure plates on the floors, all kinds of stuff. The only thing that is different now is that with the increase in AI capability, their abilities to analyze it all and tie it all together have increased exponentially.

13 years ago there was an article in the New York Times Magazine titles "How Companies Learn your Secrets". Among the many stories in that article, it featured a dad that was fuming mad at Target, because their analytics had figured out that his teenage daughter was pregnant before she even knew based on various analytics of her purchases and movements throughout their store. That was the capability in 2012. Imagine where it is today. These are not just things they can do. These are things they are doing and have been doing for a decade.

This is so thoroughly established at this point that except for maybe the smallest little mom&pop shops, you should pretty much expect that everywhere you go, no matter what you are doing. Stores, amusement parks, movie theaters, shooting ranges, strip clubs. They know exactly where you are and where you have been at all times. The know who you are sleeping with, what you are spending your money on, etc. etc. Heck, the tech is getting so cheap and automated by companies that want nothing more than to add another data collection point, that it is conceivable that even little mom and pop stores are in on it now too.

Personally, I was stopped at security at Walmart a few weeks ago. Their video tracking software had automatically flagged me for suspicious activity at the self checkout. While they were checking my stuff, I saw the little video on their screens with the little boxes that had flagged what - to them - looked like I was trying to steal something by not scanning it. (it was a false positive, but still)

Which makes you wonder about what false data is in there. My local budget pool store (which I have to go to quite frequently) is in a seedy part of town and shares a large parking lot with a strip club...

They get away with this stuff because they lie by omission. They make people believe that they aren't possibly tracking all of the things they are tracking. And even if they could, they wouldn't dare, because people would be pissed and up in arms right? The reality is - however - they are tracking everything they can track, and have spared no expense on tracking systems for going on 15 years, and today they can track more than ever. They just aren't telling you or anyone else about it, and they have it buried in legalese inside fine print legal documents and "you may be recorded while on premises" signs.

Right now as we speak there are likely hundreds of businesses out there that possess things like your facial recognition face print, all of your license plate numbers, your voice print from every time you call customer service, your digital fingerprint made up of the IDS from all of the devices, cards and keys you carry,

It would be one thing if this were only used by police to track criminals. It would still be problematic, but at least it would be somewhat limited. But no, pretty much anyone can buy access and search this data.

On the topic of "privacy" things are so much worse than even the worst pessimists and conspiracy theorists are willing to imagine. They just count on lies by omission, half truths, complicated fine print legalese and peoples disbelief, because if people knew everything that was being tracked, there would be outrage and regulation and they don't want that. Years ago they were counting on it becoming so ingrained in everything that it was impossible to stop. We hit that level many years ago now.

The time to rise up and resist was 15-20 years ago. Now - short of some sort of miracle - this battle has been completely lost.


Back in George Orwell's day, both data collection and data analysis was limited by the technology of the day.

Then by the 90's to early 2000's data collection had become much easier. Surveillance cameras were everywhere. But they were still of limited use for mass surveillance because unless it could be converted into some sort of text based metadata, it wasn't searchable. You needed a human to review and compile everything - Soviet KGB style - and that was prohibitively expensive and impractical.

This is where most people, and even our laws surrounding surveillance , seem to think we still are. When the Supreme Court ruled in Katz v. United States in 1967 that set the precedent that there is no expectation of privacy in a public space, it was based on the realities in 1967, where mass surveillance like we have today was impossible due to the state of the technology. They could never have dreamed of the dystopian future we are now living in.

We are so far beyond that now. With AI having near infinite capability to analyze and pick up on slight predictive trends and tendencies absolutely everything that can be collected can be analyzed and is being analyzed. And what can be collected has grown even more, by people inviting surveillance devices into their homes. Even if you don't connect "smart devices" (like your TV) to your wifi these days, they can still connect to the internet using low cost distributed networks like Amazon Pavement, Comcast distributed wifi, Helium Network, or even Apple's "Find My" network.

They used to have to pay for mobile broadband SIM's oin order to accomplish this, and it was often prohibitively expensive, but now it is much much cheaper and more usable. Use multi-band technologies that use higher frequency singals for more bandwidth when close, but with sub-Ghz signals for less bandwidth at longer ranges. Amazon Sidewalk (which is distributred by anyone who has an Alexa enabled device) has a half mile range. Helium can get up to 10 miles in rural areas, but is closer to 1-3 miles in cities where there is more interference.

These may be low bandwidth, but because the analysis can be done directly on the device using various Edge TPU's / NPU's, data can just be sent as summary text data, requiring only kilobytes. And it never has to touch your home network. Your neighbors "smart" devices sold you out.

And they don't even need to be close, like across the street. If your closest neighbor is within 10 miles they could be selling you out. Short of lining your homes walls with lead, there is notthing you can do about it.

I am tried of waiting for the revolution to come. People just ignore the realities right in front of them. It is more onvenient to rationalize why it isnt so bad, than it is to face the horrific reality we live in. And many younbg people having grown up with this shit hvae just come to accept that this is the way it is.

it is some odd mix of enfuriating and sad that despite all of the warnings, we have wound up here amnd no one is willing to do anyhting about it.

I've been yelling about it for almost a decade. But short of becoming a terrorist, spreading information in the hopes that people will become upset and call their congressman and senator, that is all I can do. I can't change this shit on my own.

This should be easy to fix. It is something that transcends political sides. People on th eright don't like being spied on any more than people on the left, or those in the center. Yet nothing ever happens, because people are still in complete disbelief. And the evil pieces of shit that do this stuff and profit from it are counting on it staying that way.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
These are two very different things.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with having surveillance cameras on your property. Good old dumb surveillance cameras can be great. If you notice your package (or your neighbors package) went missing between 1pm and 2pm on Sunday when you were out having a bloody mary brunch, you can check your footage from that time, and bam, there is your video evidence.

Very few people have a problem with this.

What Flock is doing is completely different.

They operate a network of cameras - which apparently now includes Ring doorbell cameras. All of the content from all of those cameras, 24/7 is constantly being pooled together and analyzed by AI. They are using a combination of license plate reading, facial recognition and even individual vehicle recognition to track individuals movements in near real time.

And it is all logged and saved and searchable.

People worry about their phones or cars constantly streaming GPS data, but with what Flock is doing this no longer matters. As the number of cameras increase, the system might see you as you leave your neighborhood from a Ring or other device that has been opted into Flocks network. At this point it may not have had a close enough look at your face, or your license plate to know who you are, but it could tell that you got into a blue mid-sized SUV with a big scratch on the left side of the rear bumper. Then it will follow this vehicle from camera to camera within the network. Not every camera will get a good look at your face or your license plate, but it doesn't need to. Eventually one of them will, and then it will retroactively add your ID to this traveling vehicle based on either license plate or facial recognition. It can puzzle the pieces together both forward-looking and backward looking when it does.

You may have seen these in your local business parking lot?

View attachment 761104

Around here Lowe's - among others have them. They are equipped with high quality, high resolution cameras, and are often tied into Flocks network.

They are scanning the face and license plate of everyone within range, and tying it to to their travel routes identified within the system.

If the cameras don't identify you, there are RFID, NFC, Wifi and bluetooth scanners that will once you enter the store. Based on your unique fingerprint of the devices, cards and keys you are carrying with you, you are pretty much emitting a perfectly identifiable fingerprint to anyone who cares enough to scan for it.

This data is then tied to your transaction data in the store. What you bought, how much of it you bought, what you paid for it, etc. etc. They track you throughout. Collect data on what you are looking at to try to tell what you are interested in.

Heck, most large employers do this now too. They have data on exactly who comes and leaves and when they do so.

You can't opt out anymore. You could completely swear off the internet any any electronic device, even your TV (which these days is constantly scanning whatever is on the screen and who is watching it, to collect data even when you are using an external source or watching content without metadata) and you could drive a 30 year old car, and they will still be collecting all of this data on you.

And this is not some possible future dystopian sci-fi. It is happening right now.

Heck, a good friend of mine met a guy at some sort of networking conference back in 2010 whose job it was to install tracking systems in retail stores. Back then, 15 years ago, they were doing camera based facial recognition, gaze tracking at displays, tracking and fingerprinting with cell phone/RFID id data and pressure plates on the floors, all kinds of stuff. The only thing that is different now is that with the increase in AI capability, their abilities to analyze it all and tie it all together have increased exponentially.

13 years ago there was an article in the New York Times Magazine titles "How Companies Learn your Secrets". Among the many stories in that article, it featured a dad that was fuming mad at Target, because their analytics had figured out that his teenage daughter was pregnant before she even knew based on various analytics of her purchases and movements throughout their store. That was the capability in 2012. Imagine where it is today. These are not just things they can do. These are things they are doing and have been doing for a decade.

This is so thoroughly established at this point that except for maybe the smallest little mom&pop shops, you should pretty much expect that everywhere you go, no matter what you are doing. Stores, amusement parks, movie theaters, shooting ranges, strip clubs. They know exactly where you are and where you have been at all times. The know who you are sleeping with, what you are spending your money on, etc. etc. Heck, the tech is getting so cheap and automated by companies that want nothing more than to add another data collection point, that it is conceivable that even little mom and pop stores are in on it now too.

Personally, I was stopped at security at Walmart a few weeks ago. Their video tracking software had automatically flagged me for suspicious activity at the self checkout. While they were checking my stuff, I saw the little video on their screens with the little boxes that had flagged what - to them - looked like I was trying to steal something by not scanning it. (it was a false positive, but still)

Which makes you wonder about what false data is in there. My local budget pool store (which I have to go to quite frequently) is in a seedy part of town and shares a large parking lot with a strip club...

They get away with this stuff because they lie by omission. They make people believe that they aren't possibly tracking all of the things they are tracking. And even if they could, they wouldn't dare, because people would be pissed and up in arms right? The reality is - however - they are tracking everything they can track, and have spared no expense on tracking systems for going on 15 years, and today they can track more than ever. They just aren't telling you or anyone else about it, and they have it buried in legalese inside fine print legal documents and "you may be recorded while on premises" signs.

Right now as we speak there are likely hundreds of businesses out there that possess things like your facial recognition face print, all of your license plate numbers, your voice print from every time you call customer service, your digital fingerprint made up of the IDS from all of the devices, cards and keys you carry,

It would be one thing if this were only used by police to track criminals. It would still be problematic, but at least it would be somewhat limited. But no, pretty much anyone can buy access and search this data.

On the topic of "privacy" things are so much worse than even the worst pessimists and conspiracy theorists are willing to imagine. They just count on lies by omission, half truths, complicated fine print legalese and peoples disbelief, because if people knew everything that was being tracked, there would be outrage and regulation and they don't want that. Years ago they were counting on it becoming so ingrained in everything that it was impossible to stop. We hit that level many years ago now.

The time to rise up and resist was 15-20 years ago. Now - short of some sort of miracle - this battle has been completely lost.
Click to expand...
I wasn't making a comparison. Just noting an example of when having a doorbell camera was a good thing.
 
kirbyrj said:
Give me a documented example of the government "abusing" access to this data and information.
Click to expand...
After the Boston Marathon bombing a woman got a visit from the police when she ordered a pressure cooker.
The only thing I could find was that 11 times in 2022, they got footage due to an emergency situation. Incidentally, your cell phone data is already up for grabs in an emergency situation (lost or missing child, adult, etc.).
Click to expand...
You're not making this sound better.
Once again, you are far more likely to be the "victim" of your data being abused by Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. for marketing purposes than you are the police abusing data.
Click to expand...
Nobody should be getting data, period.
 
DukenukemX said:
Nobody should be getting data, period.
Click to expand...
It's not hard. If you want control of your data then don't store your data on other people's hardware aka "the cloud." Again I'll add that you have no expectation of privacy in public and you never did.
 
DukenukemX said:
So you want a Ring example? Ring had employees and contractors had unlawfully surveilled thousands of users by accessing private videos, some of which recorded intimate spaces like bedrooms. Like I said, someone is wanking off to your Ring videos. My other example is to show what happens when law enforcement has your data and invades your privacy.
Click to expand...

That's not the "government."

I asked for a specific example of a law enforcement misuse of the data from a ring camera and you haven't shown me an example.
 
kirbyrj said:
That's not the "government."

I asked for a specific example of a law enforcement misuse of the data from a ring camera and you haven't shown me an example.
Click to expand...

I'll post this video again.

The guys posts some examples early on of screw-ups resulting from the police use of Flock:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ

Are innocent families and children face down on the pavement at gunpoint enough for you?
 
kirbyrj said:
That's not the "government."

I asked for a specific example of a law enforcement misuse of the data from a ring camera and you haven't shown me an example.
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My note was "in general" not specific to ring. Law enforcemnet has been caught many times, someone in some division using systems to access data for their own personal use. Or said agencies buying data, using it to correlate.
We can just look at the broad post 9/11 laws....unlimited tapping to collect what ever they wanted to "protect the people", american or not....

Not sure why you have such faith that governments care about us and our privacy. Every government literally wants to be China 2.0 and have insight into every single thing their population does.
 
MrGuvernment said:
My note was "in general" not specific to ring. Law enforcemnet has been caught many times, someone in some division using systems to access data for their own personal use. Or said agencies buying data, using it to correlate.
We can just look at the broad post 9/11 laws....unlimited tapping to collect what ever they wanted to "protect the people", american or not....

Not sure why you have such faith that governments care about us and our privacy. Every government literally wants to be China 2.0 and have insight into every single thing their population does.
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Not to mention that in the era of personal data being able to be acquired on the internet by the highest bidder, pretty much every prosecutors office in the country has a legal memo already drafted stating that they don't need warrants for information they can buy on the open market.

Since we know that the likes of Flock and other data brokers can (and do) - once combining and analyzing data from multiple sources - track your every move, your every preference and your every habit, this essentially means Police can do almost whatever the hell they want without warrants now. Essentially, it's the end of the Fourth Amendment. And as we all know, the Fourth Amendment was put in place for very good reasons to prevent rampant abuse by the government and law enforcement.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Essentially, it's the end of the Fourth Amendment. And as we all know, the Fourth Amendment was put in place for very good reasons to prevent rampant abuse by the government and law enforcement.
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Please explain how being filmed outside your home is in any way a violation of the 4th amendment. Do you actually know what it says? Allow me:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You have ZERO expectation of privacy outside your home. Anyone can film you or photograph you outside your home and does not need your consent to do so.

Also and yet again, if want to control your data stop putting it in places you don't control. Grow up and stop blaming others because they've made it convenient for you to make your data theirs. Read that last part again and understand it.
 
Nicklebon said:
Please explain how being filmed outside your home is in any way a violation of the 4th amendment. Do you actually know what it says? Allow me:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You have ZERO expectation of privacy outside your home. Anyone can film you or photograph you outside your home and does not need your consent to do so.

Also and yet again, if want to control your data stop putting it in places you don't control. Grow up and stop blaming others because they've made it convenient for you to make your data theirs. Read that last part again and understand it.
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Zero expectation of privacy? Correct.

However, the argument can be made that just because we were out at Home Depot buying some paint doesn't mean Flock gets to grab all of Home Depots security cameras just "because" and feed it through AI creating profiles on everybody. There needs to be probable cause or a warrant.

Flock should NOT be allowed to just access a users Ring data which is what will probably be happening. That requires a warrant and if they breach that well that would be against the 4th Amendment
 
Vermillion said:
Zero expectation of privacy? Correct.

However, the argument can be made that just because we were out at Home Depot buying some paint doesn't mean Flock gets to grab all of Home Depots security cameras just "because" and feed it through AI creating profiles on everybody. There needs to be probable cause or a warrant.

Flock should NOT be allowed to just access a users Ring data which is what will probably be happening. That requires a warrant and if they breach that well that would be against the 4th Amendment
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Home Depot/Ring can do whatever they like with their data including giving to FLOCK, advertisers, wankbuddies.com, or anyone else they like. It's their data, not yours, and you have no say in it.

Now we can argue the ethics of this and should but that's not what's happening. Instead, everyone wants to chant the 4th like it's some kind of magic spell. This is in no way a 4th amendment violation as none of that information is yours and it never was.
 
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