• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

[SemiAccurate] upcoming Nvidia chip has a problem that doesn't have a fix as of now

Microsoft? I don't know maybe its the project digits chips... that Nvidia may have had plans to use for Windows Arm systems? I mean it is possible that Microsoft can't make a proper scheduler work?
I don't know of Nvidia would really be too upset by that I mean I'm not even convinced they will be selling windows arm machines and not some form of Linux.

If its anything related to Rubin ya it makes no sense to blame MS for anything.
 
LukeTbk said:
Is this about a 5060 having Windows driver issues ?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't expect a 5060 driver issue. Nvidia has been doing this for decades

Maybe the mediatek arm collaboration for a surface like device ?
 
LukeTbk said:
That run Linux I think.
Click to expand...
It does. Its also a little more then a rumor at this point that Nvidia was planning a consumer launch of digits (or a consumer variation anyway) in Q4. Presumably they were going to be shipping systems using Windows ARM.
Rumors have had them working with Valve as well. Who knows though. Just speculating as Microsoft seems to be the scapegoat. Considering how badly Microsoft continues to screwup x86 CPU scheduling requiring dumb things like core parking still. It does make sense not being able to properly handle a Nvidia APU with complex core configurations could be a major issue that would be unfix able by Nvidia as there is no issue with the hard ware.

I don't know if that is what is going on. I hope it pushes Nvidia to properly go all in on a Linux consumer launch.

On the 5060ti... combined with the new driver that isn't properly reporting temps under windows? I don't know its not a crazy thought as well. Its possible. Though those are already shipping. But who knows maybe the leak info is old.
 
ChadD said:
It does. Its also a little more then a rumor at this point that Nvidia was planning a consumer launch of digits (or a consumer variation anyway) in Q4.
Click to expand...
Wasn't digits (now called Spark) always been a consumer facing product, they already took pre-order/reservation open to the public I think, same for the competitor using that chips:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/asus-...s-with-nvidias-gb10-grace-blackwell-superchip

Ai dev is so strongly Linux based and those machines are more to connect to from your computer than directly use, they will come with Nvidia DGX os (linux).

It could be, a microsoft windows arm-Nvidia version, but if it is that one, why say almost assuredly Nvidia fault..., that would be likely candidate too.
 
LukeTbk said:
Wasn't digits (now called Spark) always been a consumer facing product, they already took pre-order/reservation open to the public I think, same for the competitor using that chips:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/asus-...s-with-nvidias-gb10-grace-blackwell-superchip

Ai dev is so strongly Linux based and those machines are more to connect to from your computer than directly use, they will come with Nvidia DGX os (linux).

It could be, a microsoft windows arm-Nvidia version, but if it is that one, why say almost assuredly Nvidia fault..., that would be likely candidate too.
Click to expand...
Well depends on your definition of consumer I guess.
Digits as you say is AI focused. As such Linux is the more logical OS over windows.

When I say they have a consumer launch coming up. I mean for normal mass market use. Laptops, gaming handhelds... mini PCs. Rumors have said windows arm, other rumors have said SteamOS. The SteamOS rumors though to be fair mostly stem from Valve themselves making changes to both Proton and DXVK that seem to be bringing up ARM support. (may not be related to Nvidia at all). Valve also has VR products coming up it seems and those probably use ARM chips. So Nvidia shipping something with SteamOS may just be someones fever dream. It makes the most sense that Nvidia if they are planning a gaming laptop powered by Nvidia hardware would be using ARM windows.

Why it would be Microsofts fault? I mean why do AMD CPUs require core parking in windows? Under Linux the Linux scheudler knows exatly what to do, the gains from core parking in Linux are so ludicarisly small (and sometimes costs you performacne parking cores as one would expect) it doesn't make sense to bother doing it, as the scheudler mostly knows exactly what to do. Intel we all know solved the windows is a terrible OS issues with their big Little chips by building in their own thread scheudling right into the hardware. Intel shouldn't have had to do that, in fact it makes almost no sense to do that.... accept that Intel knew MS would be incapable of doing it properly. AMD has been too nice to say hey MS you are fucking us here. Nvidia isn't as nice, if they are planning a ARM windows chip... its going to require some advance scheudling and Nvidia will probably blame MS. (and imo if that is the case they might be right to do so)
 
LukeTbk said:
There has been a couple of very low information type of article here, this is article that say an article exist...

Is this about a 5060 having Windows driver issues ? A laptop one ? A microsoft datacenter ? who knows...


That run Linux I think.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The fact that Semi-Accurate never unpaywalls its old articles, even when long past commercial relevance has caused me to discount their headlines 100%.

I was skeptical of them for many years. What finally caused me to give up all hope was when they posted an article to prove how right their past predictions were. Every prediction from years ago that they cited as proof was still behind a paywall with just the standard uselessly clickbait title and intro visible.
 
Sycraft said:
I always said "Semi-Accurate, the site that isn't." :D
Click to expand...
SA did call out Intel's tech troubles very early. Even though the details were paywalled, they did provide a useful straw in the wind.
So I'm more inclined to believe there is some substance here.
 
etudiant said:
SA did call out Intel's tech troubles very early. Even though the details were paywalled, they did provide a useful straw in the wind.
So I'm more inclined to believe there is some substance here.
Click to expand...
The boy who cried wolf eventually was eaten by one. That didn't mean the villagers were wrong to have long ago stopped paying any attention to him.
 
I'm trying to find whatever statement Nvidia made that this SemiAccurate article is commenting about.

SemiAccurate is saying that it is delayed and Nvidia is blaming Microsoft, but I can't find anything from Nvidia about it, and everything else I find is just referencing the SemiAccurate article.
Is this actually a thing or AI-generated Clickbait?
 
Lakados said:
I'm trying to find whatever statement Nvidia made that this SemiAccurate article is commenting about.

SemiAccurate is saying that it is delayed and Nvidia is blaming Microsoft, but I can't find anything from Nvidia about it, and everything else I find is just referencing the SemiAccurate article.
Is this actually a thing or AI-generated Clickbait?
Click to expand...

I've never seen any indications that SA is using AI clickbait. AI BS is race to the bottom garbage, SA's very expensive access prices are going after the other end of the market.

That said, as noted above, never unpaywalling their old articles makes it impossible for anyone without deep pockets to evaluate if SA's alleged insider leaks are valid or not.
 
Marees said:
I googled Microsoft & Nvidia. This is what I came up with:

  • Future Blackwell Ultra GPU VMs: Microsoft plans to introduce virtual machines based on NVIDIA Blackwell Ultra GPUs on Azure later in 2025.
  • Future RTX PRO 6000 Server Edition on Azure: Microsoft will also bring the performance of the NVIDIA RTX PRO 6000 Blackwell Server Edition to its Azure platform.

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2025/03/21/azure-ai-foundry-gets-nvidia-tech.aspx
Click to expand...
But nothing about delays except from articles months ago about them being delayed until early 2025, which is essentially now.

Unless the article is essentially saying Microsoft has bought so many of them for this workstation initiative that it’s being delayed for everyone else while Nvidia meets those orders. And Nvidia is having a hard time meeting those orders because AIB’s keep dicking around with their inventory playing dodge the tariffs.
 
Lakados said:
And Nvidia is having a hard time meeting those orders because AIB’s keep dicking around with their inventory playing dodge the tariffs.
Click to expand...
what percentage of RTX 6000 are non Founder Edition...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...sid=p4550459.m570.l1313&_odkw=nvidia+rtx+6000

It is not exclusive but, we tend to see Nvidia model heavily in that class..

It must about yet to be announced product too, right... it is hard to imagine blaming RTX 6000 issues on microsoft (healthy Linux market for those we would imagine anyway).

This feel, blind items celebrity gossip level of Internet... will we go 1 month having no details about one of the most followed and evaluated public company in world history, when all the cnbc/press has to do is get an subsription to SA to know all of it ?
 
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
LukeTbk said:
what percentage of RTX 6000 are non Founder Edition...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...sid=p4550459.m570.l1313&_odkw=nvidia+rtx+6000

It is not exclusive but, we tend to see Nvidia model heavily in that class..

It must about yet to be announced product too, right... it is hard to imagine blaming RTX 6000 issues on microsoft (healthy Linux market for those we would imagine anyway).

This feel, blind items celebrity gossip level of Internet... will we go 1 month having no details about one of the most followed and evaluated public company in world history, when all the cnbc/press has to do is get an subsription to SA to know all of it ?
Click to expand...
Nvidia doesn't really let any AIB deviate on the Workstation and Server cards, and they all come in those boring black boxes/
I've mostly gotten PNY ones myself as they also make them for Dell, HP, and Lenovo and I figure if anybody was tracking the absolute hell out of failure rates and problems with a product, it would be those three, and if they keep with them, then there must be a reason right?

But to the best of my knowledge, all workstation and server cards are Founders Edition cards, and Nvidia does not let the AIBs deviate from the spec in any way, shape, or form with that lineup. So, in theory, every RTX 6000 should be completely identical regardless of which AIB actually made it, the AIB's aren't sourcing their own VRAM or MOSFETs or any critical component, they order a kit from Nvidia and that kit contains all the pieces so Nvidia can procure all the components at bulk pricing. But if any part that goes into that kit gets bottlenecked because of unforeseen circumstances, then every AIB down the line gets starved for parts. So if Samsung has issues and can't produce enough EEC GDDR7 modules fast enough, and it means it takes Nvidia 6 months longer to fill that Microsoft order than everybody is waiting for that extra 6 months.

But I doubt it's an actual thing, be all humble brag, Microsoft bought so much of our stuff that if we dedicate 100% of our output to that order it will take 8 months to fill it alone, and we still have every other company begging to be on the wait list.

You would think some sort of beef at that level between Microsoft and Nvidia where multiple Billions were on the line there would be more chatter.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Could it be this ?

https://www-computerbase-de.transla...465/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB

The Windows PC chip is coming​

Ultimately, however, a modification of this solution is also conceivable for PCs aimed at end users. Instead of 20 CPU cores, perhaps only eight to twelve, and the RAM likely to be a quarter of that or even less, i.e. 32 or 16 GB – depending on which market segment is ultimately targeted. The same applies to the GPU unit and its possible expansion levels. Instead of the $3,000 entry-level price in the professional world, this should also be significantly cheaper.

According to media reports from Asia, MediaTek has already booked additional capacity with ASE. ASE provides OSAT (outsourced semiconductor assembly and test) capacity. Moreover, a mainstream PC chip doesn't require extravagant packaging; it's a classic chip on a substrate in an FCBGA package—there's more than enough capacity for that, even from many suppliers. MediaTek is said to have awarded contracts with ASE for about a year within a few weeks, it's reported. Things seem to be getting serious.

Via

NVIDIA N1X and N1 SoC for desktop and laptop PCs expected to debut at Computex​


https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...-and-laptop-pcs-expected-to-debut-at-computex
 
DukenukemX said:
So is this MediaTek's chip or Nvidia's?
Click to expand...
Mediatek was involved in the GB10 design and manufacturing (mediatek has good direct TSMC 3 experience for somewhat similar product and there rumours that this could be a 3 version: https://www.trendforce.com/news/202...gits-is-reportedly-built-with-tsmcs-3nm-node/) , now that Nvidia as a mature C2C (direct chips to chips interconnect) technology to connect chips together from their H200 endeavor, that open the door price wise to high bandwith chiplet of the sort, they are planned to collaborate in the car market has well.

We can imagine mediatek helped scale down Nvidia grace CPU, maybe help for the more general platform cpu need than what they are used too, work with TSMC on N3 to make it work.

As per NVIDIA’s press release, the GB10 SoC features an NVIDIA Blackwell GPU, connected via NVLink-C2C chip-to-chip interconnect to a high-performance NVIDIA Grace CPU, which includes 20 power-efficient cores built with the Arm architecture.

Citing MediaTek’s Senior Vice President Jerry Yu, the reports note that the Taiwanese chip leader is responsible for co-developing the 20 Grace CPU dies within the GB10 chip, utilizing TSMC’s advanced 3nm process.

Notably, this marks MediaTek’s second major 3nm product following the Dimensity 9400. The flagship smartphone chipset, launched in October, 2024, has been adopted by major Chinese smartphone brands including Xiaomi and OPPO.

It is also worth noting that MediaTek and NVIDIA will engage in closer collaboration in the future. According to Yu, MediaTek’s Dimensity Auto Cockpit C-X1 will come with support for NVIDIA DRIVE OS, as the company is expected to be delivering samples in the first half of 2025.

Marees said:
Could it be this ?
Click to expand...
This was always a very obvious candidate (the most) for an issue involving Microsoft, but it always made the tone that was a little bit how could it be partly Microsoft fault ? A bit strange, if it is to be running windows and support legacy wintel x86 emulation with windows gaming performance something that is relevant to the project success, it is easy to imagine that it could be possible.
 
DanNeely said:
I've never seen any indications that SA is using AI clickbait. AI BS is race to the bottom garbage, SA's very expensive access prices are going after the other end of the market.

That said, as noted above, never unpaywalling their old articles makes it impossible for anyone without deep pockets to evaluate if SA's alleged insider leaks are valid or not.
Click to expand...
Charlie is probably one of the best connected folks in the industry from what I can tell. If he's writing something, he's probably got the receipts.
 

Nvidia and Mediatek's AI CPU may not see mass rollout until late 2026 — Asus, Dell, and Lenovo reportedly developing N1X desktops and laptops​

News
By Stephen Warwick published 3 hours ago
The chip is tipped for an unveiling at Computex 2025

the report notes, early N1X benchmarks hint at performance that lags behind some Arm-based PC chips, noting "the results have raised industry concerns."

Perhaps more worryingly, Digitimes reiterates reports that there are "unresolved integration issues with endpoint devices." These manufacturing headaches have previously been reported elsewhere, and could explain the hefty lead time of 2H26 on these chips.


https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...eportedly-developing-n1x-desktops-and-laptops



Nvidia and MediaTek's hotly anticipated AI PC chips may not see meaningful shipment volumes to the mass market until the second half of 2026, according to a new report. As reported by Digitimes, Nvidia and MediaTek are expected to jointly unveil their new 'N1' Arm chips for Windows PCs at Computex.

According to Digitimes, the joint chip will "likely debut under the Nvidia brand," with both N1X and N1 models planned, echoing previous reports. Digitimes says that both companies are well into production ramp-up, however, states "insiders believe meaningful shipment volumes won't emerge until the second half of 2026."
 
That would be a big surprise:
commercial N1X AI notebooks targeted at both high-end consumers and commercial markets with 180-200 AI TOPS compute performance.

No precession so it could mean many different things, but usually they tend to use the highest number possible (FP4 for example), a 5060 is above 600, Digits/spark will be around ~1000, I get the desktop versus laptop, but 2026 High end-commercial that would max at 200 ? that a bit less than a 3080 from 2020 and a 3080 was doing it on 16 bits...

That said would still be a massive boost from the 40-50 we see today from the competition... if he does 90-100 AI tops on FP8, but not that big versus where the competition will be...
 
Well, colour me surprised, Microsoft and their relatively terrible Windows ARM implementation are causing problems...
Windows ARM works better in a VM than it does on direct hardware because the driver hooks for it are very different than x86 and it's a major problem developers have been bitching about for at least 2 years.

Microsoft made the interface along side Qualcomm and they did some weird shit in there and it's a major PITA, I am counting down the days until I can get the last of my ARM based Surface Pro tablets gone, there are only 4 left and they are a constant headache, but the people who have them really need the pen interface for how they do their jobs. But the previous year's Intel models are better in almost every respect, and the only reason those 4 are still in operation is because Accounting won't let me replace them this early into their deployment, much to everybody else's annoyance.

Windows ARM virtualized through Parallels on the Macs, though, beautiful, super clean, and works better in many respects than even some of the x64 Win11 Enterprise installs we have, especially with legacy software. But the team at parallels put in a crap load of work in getting things stable and the work shows.

Honestly, Microsoft should be more than a little ashamed about that.
 
Could this be related ?

So, what is POPCNT?​

POPCNT is a CPU instruction and a short form derived from Population Count. Processors use it to determine how many bits are actively set in a given binary number. Notably, it is part of the SSE4.2 instruction set. Given that you have to go back more than a decade and a half to find processors without native POPCNT support, it doesn't really concern anyone who wants a practical workmanlike PC for typical 2025 workloads.

Windows 11 24H2's POPCNT requirement​

POPCNT may seem like an obscure processor instruction, but it has been in the news previously, with popular software insisting upon it being supported by the system CPU. Case in point - Microsoft's Windows 11 24H2 introduced a requirement for POPCNT hardware support. That change came to light around a year ago, and alongside other requirements such as tech as secure boot and TPM support, it ruled out a host of older CPU generations from official Windows 11 OS compatibility.

RTX 5090 with Core 2 Duo? Nvidia driver change opens up bizarre system build options​

News
By Mark Tyson published 2 days ago
Potentially the worst CPU bottleneck in computing history.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-change-opens-up-bizarre-system-build-options
 
Marees said:
Could this be related ?

So, what is POPCNT?​

POPCNT is a CPU instruction and a short form derived from Population Count. Processors use it to determine how many bits are actively set in a given binary number. Notably, it is part of the SSE4.2 instruction set. Given that you have to go back more than a decade and a half to find processors without native POPCNT support, it doesn't really concern anyone who wants a practical workmanlike PC for typical 2025 workloads.

Windows 11 24H2's POPCNT requirement​

POPCNT may seem like an obscure processor instruction, but it has been in the news previously, with popular software insisting upon it being supported by the system CPU. Case in point - Microsoft's Windows 11 24H2 introduced a requirement for POPCNT hardware support. That change came to light around a year ago, and alongside other requirements such as tech as secure boot and TPM support, it ruled out a host of older CPU generations from official Windows 11 OS compatibility.

RTX 5090 with Core 2 Duo? Nvidia driver change opens up bizarre system build options​

News
By Mark Tyson published 2 days ago
Potentially the worst CPU bottleneck in computing history.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-change-opens-up-bizarre-system-build-options
Click to expand...
Unlikely, that functionality has been part of the ARM set since 2013 or so but it was optional in Cortex 7 and older, but in Cortex 8 and up it's standard so you would be pretty hard pressed to find a modern ARM chip without that equivalent.
 
During the Computex 2025 trade fair, we were able to speak with long-time employees of the Taiwanese chip manufacturer at the MediaTek booth, during which it became clear that we'll probably have to wait a long time before we see Windows PCs with a MediaTek CPU. While they were unwilling to comment on the long-running speculation surrounding so-called "AI notebooks" featuring new chips called "N1" and "N1X" developed in cooperation with Nvidia , they did make it clear that these devices are unlikely to come with Windows.

Windows on ARM PCs with MediaTek CPU: You can wait a long time for that​

9e6886bab1fe4b8a8ff1f0eede854a38

21.05.2025 11:04 a.m.
By Roland Quandt
ARM-based Windows PCs with chips from manufacturers other than Qualcomm are likely to be some time away. MediaTek has no short-term plans to enter the Windows on ARM client PC market, according to employees at Computex 2025 .


https://m-winfuture-de.translate.goog/news/151064?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB
 
Marees said:
He openly confirmed that it is the N1/N1x

Details continue to remain paywalled

https://x.com/CDemerjian/status/1934624870827970959
Click to expand...
By "Unfixable" by Nvidia, they mean they don't use the same instruction set as Qualcomm.

Qualcomm is using a highly customized ARM architecture and custom instruction set. Nvidia, on the other hand, has kept things much closer to a stock ARM configuration as far as the CPU is concerned.

Microsoft had an exclusive Qualcomm agreement in place that guaranteed that Qualcomm was going to be the sole supplier of ARM chips for the Windows Operating System, Windows 11 ARM was built completely around all those customizations that Qualcomm has in place which would make those parts of Windows 11 ARM fundamentally incompatible with any other vendors ARM chips, not just Nvidia's.

Parallels for Mac OS works around that via custom drivers and translation layers, and to their credit, it works very well, but Microsoft didn't make their jobs any easier.

As it stands now, unless Microsoft gives Windows 11 ARM a massive overhaul and rebuilds critical aspects of the OS to better support the generic ARM architecture and not just the Qualcomm variation of it, I just don't see Nvidia, MediaTek, Broadcomm, or anybody else out there bending over backwards to make it work. And I don't see there being enough consumer demand for Microsoft to invest the time and resources to make it happen. Might Microsoft release "Windows 12" with a generic ARM version available for licensing, perhaps, but god only knows when that happens.

Nvidia and MediaTek would be far better served partnering with Valve to go after gaming, and possibly putting some resources into ChromiumOS, than they are going after Microsoft.

Microsoft barely manages to keep Windows 11 updated for the minor variations within the Intel and AMD CPU lineups, and that is their biggest OS market share by far, the Idea that they would suddenly expand the ARM edition to work with vendors other than Qualcomm is somewhat laughable in a sad, frustrating way.
 
Last edited:
Lakados said:
By "Unfixable" by Nvidia, they mean they don't use the same instruction set as Qualcomm.

Qualcomm is using a highly customized ARM architecture and custom instruction set. Nvidia, on the other hand, has kept things much closer to a stock ARM configuration as far as the CPU is concerned.
Click to expand...
HIghly customised does not mean highly different instruction set, AMD and intel as radically different architecture but for the most part the exact same ISA.

Apple M series is highly customised from the out of the box design, but very similar instruction set, Snapdragon are fully ARMv8 compliant cpu even if they are almost 100% custom, no ?.
https://docs.qualcomm.com/bundle/publicresource/topics/80-78185-2/architecture.html

The short lived arm surface RT after all was running on Nvidia tegra 3 soc, Ampere ARM cpu "can" run windows on arm...
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ampere-64-core-arm-workstation-runs-windows
https://community.amperecomputing.com/t/fastest-windows-arm-pc-ampere-guide/811

Arm Windows Dev kit (volterra) were on regular 2021 Gen 3 snapdragon cpu, running more classic cortex A78 cores, probably not that far from the 7c series they used in chromebooks, people were running non windows OS on those I think once microsoft made an updated DeviceTree for them.

why microsoft matter could be the same reason they have a major issues, running the giant x86 games/application library well enough, not native arm not working because windows on arm use an esoteric different ISA than arm (what the point of using arm at all if you do not use the design nor the ISA? on those Orion core ?)

The logic must be
) Care at all about microsoft for access to wintel x86 legacys app, if you get new build for arm just for your platform, indeed not much advantage veruss a steam OS/nvidia OS/etc....
) Because you care about wintel x86 legacy app, it is extremelly hard to make it work and have an architecture good at running arm but also translated/emulated x86 one.
 
Last edited:
LukeTbk said:
HIghly customised does not mean highly different instruction set, AMD and intel as radically different architecture but for the most part the exact same ISA.

Apple M series is highly customised from the out of the box design, but very similar instruction set, Snapdragon are fully ARMv8 compliant cpu even if they are almost 100% custom, no ?.
https://docs.qualcomm.com/bundle/publicresource/topics/80-78185-2/architecture.html
Click to expand...
It's not so much the CPU side of things, Qualcomm does keep their CPUs' ISA 95% v8 standard, it's the rest of the platform that is the problem.

Microsoft has completely gutted the OS in its attempts to optimize it for the Qualcomm Snapdragon chip in a futile effort to improve the platform's performance.
It is highly customized for the Qualcomm Adreno GPU family, and the same goes for all aspects of Networking, USB functionality, power management, and even UEFI functionality.

There are a slew of Blog-Style pages out there about people trying to make it natively run on their Altra Ampere systems, but it always results in something very Janky.
Ultimately, they end up installing Linux (mostly Ubuntu), then downloading the latest ARM build from https://uupdump.net/, then do what they must to run Windows 11 ARM as a virtual machine instead.

So it's less about the CPU optimizations, of which there are some, but the optimizations and requirements on the rest of the platform that kill it for everybody else.
 
lol, Nvidia being restricted by proprietary standards from one vendor. Nvidia should indeed either develop their own Linux based OS, or work with Valve OS.
 
noko said:
lol, Nvidia being restricted by proprietary standards from one vendor. Nvidia should indeed either develop their own Linux based OS, or work with Valve OS.
Click to expand...
They do have their own Linux OS Jetson Linux
https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-linux

Nvidia is already working with Valve on a number of projects, one of which is confirmed to be their open source drivers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...he-future-of-steamos-on-intel-and-nvidia-pcs/

“With NVIDIA, the integration of open-source drivers is still in its early stages,” Griffais says. “There’s still a lot of work to be done on that side. So it’s a bit tricky to say we’re going to release this version when most people wouldn’t have a good experience."
Griffais also revealed that Valve has four developers dedicated to working on Nvidia’s open-source driver. “It’s just that there’s still a lot of work to do,” Griffais says.
 
etudiant said:
SA did call out Intel's tech troubles very early. Even though the details were paywalled, they did provide a useful straw in the wind.
So I'm more inclined to believe there is some substance here.
Click to expand...
actually that originated from a guy on the steam forums then here and toms hardware first, so they got it from one of those 3 and ran with it. and that's if they even reported on it before it made the youtube rounds.
 
Lakados said:
By "Unfixable" by Nvidia, they mean they don't use the same instruction set as Qualcomm.

Qualcomm is using a highly customized ARM architecture and custom instruction set. Nvidia, on the other hand, has kept things much closer to a stock ARM configuration as far as the CPU is concerned.

Microsoft had an exclusive Qualcomm agreement in place that guaranteed that Qualcomm was going to be the sole supplier of ARM chips for the Windows Operating System, Windows 11 ARM was built completely around all those customizations that Qualcomm has in place which would make those parts of Windows 11 ARM fundamentally incompatible with any other vendors ARM chips, not just Nvidia's.

Parallels for Mac OS works around that via custom drivers and translation layers, and to their credit, it works very well, but Microsoft didn't make their jobs any easier.

As it stands now, unless Microsoft gives Windows 11 ARM a massive overhaul and rebuilds critical aspects of the OS to better support the generic ARM architecture and not just the Qualcomm variation of it, I just don't see Nvidia, MediaTek, Broadcomm, or anybody else out there bending over backwards to make it work. And I don't see there being enough consumer demand for Microsoft to invest the time and resources to make it happen. Might Microsoft release "Windows 12" with a generic ARM version available for licensing, perhaps, but god only knows when that happens.

Nvidia and MediaTek would be far better served partnering with Valve to go after gaming, and possibly putting some resources into ChromiumOS, than they are going after Microsoft.

Microsoft barely manages to keep Windows 11 updated for the minor variations within the Intel and AMD CPU lineups, and that is their biggest OS market share by far, the Idea that they would suddenly expand the ARM edition to work with vendors other than Qualcomm is somewhat laughable in a sad, frustrating way.
Click to expand...
This is really on MS.
Windows is poorly coded, poorly planned, poorly executed.
Ironically at one time Microsoft was able to support alternate architectures. In the 90s they supported MIPS. X86, Alpha, powerpc, Itanium with windows NT. As well as ARMv4, ARMv5, and ARMv7 with widnows CE. Microsoft back in the 90s actually had some talent, and supported at least 8 architectures that I can remember.
These days Microsoft is a shadow of its former self and their OS has become a bloat wear fest of tangled intermingled code. Supporting another Arch should be a relatively minor issue. The fact that it isn't is very telling about the state of Microsoft, and windows. It feels like they moved their code to GIT, and when that didn't magically solve all their spegetti they just threw their hands up and said. All well. They can't even fix the basics.

I agree it is time for Microsoft to be chased out of the consumer product space. Nvidia should partner with valve, and either adopt steamOS. My suggestion to Valve and the industry in general would be to have Valve spin SteamOS off to a mother project... which they would use to build SteamOS. Much the same way Google made Chromium its own stand alone project that they shepherded, and is used as the base for darn near everyone's browser these days. Valve could do the same, take their atomic arch distro and make it a stand alone project. One that could easily be pulled by Nvidia to skin their own NvidiaRTX OS, be the base of SteamOS, and where any other company could choose to run SteamOS, or do the same and pull their own. Companies like Samsung have really customized things like Android for their hardware. Maybe its time everyone just stops putting windows on everything. Could also be a solution for AMD. AMD has been screwed over by Microsoft for years now, windows has never really worked right with AMD hardware. Their hardware being as good as it has been the last few years is in spite of Microsoft and Windows. If Valve does a chromium style version of SteamOS, AMD should also build on its base. AMD OS should be a thing as well... no more core parking, no more waiting for Microsoft to support your NPU stuff, no more waiting for MS to implement any of your tech. With a shared base, and a flatpak style app delivery software developers shouldn't have any of the old issues people worried about supporting Linux. For us neck beards that say but native runs better, and non atomic is superior. We can swap our OS... and we have ot remember that for the masses Atomic Linux + Flatpak is 200% better then Windows.
 
ChadD said:
This is really on MS.
Windows is poorly coded, poorly planned, poorly executed.
Ironically at one time Microsoft was able to support alternate architectures. In the 90s they supported MIPS. X86, Alpha, powerpc, Itanium with windows NT. As well as ARMv4, ARMv5, and ARMv7 with widnows CE. Microsoft back in the 90s actually had some talent, and supported at least 8 architectures that I can remember.
Click to expand...
I had a DEC Alphastation (I think it was an Alphastation at least, was def an Alpha in a Workstation Tower) running NT4.0 and VMS in the 90's. It was fun having a 64 bit system before basically everyone, and rocking the distributed computing stuff (which was probably just SETI@Home really back then) with it. Trying to game on it was certainly....interesting, even the built in pinball stuff ran sloooow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
ChadD said:
Microsoft back in the 90s actually had some talent,
Click to expand...
I doubt Microsoft core team issues is a lack of talents, the gap in excellence we see between what they can do with new product versus legacy affair like Windows (or when they were newer in the 90s) is maybe more just how much complexity and challenging it got over time, Mac, Linux ability/willingness to break and change things open the door to them.

You do not compete with AWS and Google like that without talent, apparently the Office team is filled with it, if you spend over 40 billions on employees, giving the opportunity to work on some of the most beloved climate on earth locations, big institutional access to H-1B visas, Isreal-India-China big office, you should be able to attract talents, how do we end up with a React native start menu that look and work like this in windows 11 become a bit of a mystery, same for Cursor and other VSCode branch eating VSCode, among the 230,000 employees it would be surprising if you cannot easily find 20 of them better than those teams thats outcompeting them, but the giant muddy corporation, legacy concern, make it hard.

There is some institutional rot going on, like for Apple in some domain or google search before it was suddenly push.
 
Last edited:
LukeTbk said:
I doubt Microsoft core team issues is a lack of talents, the gap in excellence with see between what they can do with new product versus legacy affair like Windows (or when they were newer in the 90s) is maybe more just how much complexity and challenging it got over time, Mac, Linux ability/willingness to break and change things open the door to them.

You do not compete with AWS and Google like that without talent, apparently the Office team is filled with it, if you spend over 40 billions on employee, opportunity to work on some of the most beloved climate on earth locations, you should be able to attract talents, how do we end up with a React native start menu that look and work like this in windows 11 become a bit of a mystery, same for Cursor and other VSCode branch eating VSCode, among the 230,000 employees it would be surprising if you cannot easily find 20 of them better than those teams thats outcompeting them, but the giant muddy corporation, legacy concern, make it hard.
Click to expand...
In my experience, most of MS's problems stem from craploads of legacy rules that require weird things OR Else!

I think Microsoft is reaching the point where Windows 12 should be a fresh start, breaking away from many legacy aspects for the sake of performance enhancements and security fixes. Then, release a very lightweight, stripped-down, bare-bones VM of Windows 11 for running legacy applications and services.
Don't even give it a UI, give it PowerShell passthrough for troubleshooting, and call it a day. Enable the host OS so that if the user checks a box on the application or passes it a flag, it will seamlessly launch in "Legacy Mode" and run inside that VM.

For Pro or Enterprise versions, they could include options to install legacy protocols for AD, WINS, etc., but don't put them there by default. Instead, place them in the "Add Additional Windows Components" section or a similar location.

UI's change, I get it, honestly, aside from 8.0, none of them were atrocious, but as time goes on, Windows is trying to do too many things, Microsoft needs to pick a damned lane because right now it's just swirving all over the place.

Then, when it's time for Windows 13... Just don't do it...
Launch "Windows One" instead and start over.
Build on that VM for legacy Windows stuff, take the approved Windows UI and slap it into a Linux Distro and call it a god damned day.
I don't even care if it isn't fully open source, would that be nice, sure, but I get it.
I'm sure they could find a way to put WDDM and DX12 Ultimate Extreme edition in there, tied to a subscription of some type, and have multiple people cheer for the chance to pay them $12.99 a month to play Windows games natively in Linux.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top