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DLSS 5 - Generative AI

mullet said:
Looks 100% better.
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Screenshot_20260322-124836.png
 
MikeTrike said:
That's because it's a slop generator. Notice they hardly demoed any fast motion examples, basically none except very select bits of fútbol.
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The few motion examples they showed were a blurry mess of jank.

It really feels like this is how they sell their next gen of GPUs. GPUs that probably stagnate with all the traditional gaming things including RT.
 
MikeTrike said:
View attachment 792932
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It is a funny joke... BUT on the other hand the way this tech works. DLSS6 could totally feature full character replacement. lol
The handful of game publishers and Nvidia saying oh ya full artist control. They are either deluded lied to or don't care. This tech is already making changes. The logical place this goes is the replacement of all the things.
For that matter it could end traditional modding. Convert all X ot Y.

NV would have got a better reaction if this was sold as remix 2. Folding it in as DLSS raises a lot of questions.
 
mullet said:
That is a lot of assuming on your part.

If you can't turn it off, then Nvidia will piss off a lot customers and developers.
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You think the "no longer a gaming company" is going to care about gamers?
 
1_rick said:
You think the "no longer a gaming company" is going to care about gamers?
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There isn't a company in the world that's a gamer company anymore, at least GPU companies aren't. Sony will get hand me down parts and if MS was to continue, they would as well. High end gaming is now an expensive hobby and not for the masses. The masses will become (those that aren't already phone gamers) console peasants. The PCMR is now only those with DEEP pockets (at least those that want high end) or just want overpriced low-end stuff. I can't blame any company for pursuing the highest margin products. Profit makes the world go round.
 
mullet said:
That is a lot of assuming on your part.

If you can't turn it off, then Nvidia will piss off a lot customers and developers.
If game developers dumb down graphics to depend on DLSS5 then it will piss off customers.

Pissed off customers don't buy products, it is SELF CORRRECTING.

Hence no reason to hyperventilate.
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We have AAA titles that won't launch without RT hardware.
We have AAA titles with the recommended min settings recommending upscale. (I think there might even be a couple that recommend up scaling at all settings) Technically you can turn it off, but the developers don't care if it runs like ass without their recommend level of upscale. Why would they treat this tech any differently.

You can say self correcting, and your not wrong over time. The issue is if the PC game industry craters it doesn't come back in a form we want. It comes back as streaming only.
You know how you force everyone to just not turn it off. You stream the game. Or parts of the game. Just wait NV (and AMD) are going to start talking about asset streaming soon.This is also a clear path to forced game streaming. Sony has asset streaming coming to reduce game install sizes. Clearly that tech goes hand in hand with this type of tech. (no doubt AMD is working on something very much like dlss5) Ya I don't like where this is leading. I hope I'm wrong... and perhaps the backlash makes a few companies rethink. At this point I think the inertia of this stuff is just too great. Good bad great or terrible this looks like its happening.
 
mullet said:
That is a lot of assuming on your part.

If you can't turn it off, then Nvidia will piss off a lot customers and developers.
If game developers dumb down graphics to depend on DLSS5 then it will piss off customers.

Pissed off customers don't buy products, it is SELF CORRRECTING.

Hence no reason to hyperventilate.
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Pissed of customers are wrong. It’s already happened. We know the response.
 
Niner said:
My thoughts exactly. Getting upset about it one way or another isn't going to make it go away.
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Billions of dollars behind the move to data center everything. Gamers QQing about AIed up games isn't going to stop this.
The game publishers are also quite fine with this killing AAA gaming as have known it. They would quite like everyone throwing up their hands and saying ok ok. Fine stream it to me daddy. Let your computer chew the 20gb+ of vram. The publishers can't really loose. They need to find away to pull game developers back under there wing, and being the owners of the servers that make everything possible would be one way to do that as well.
 
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Niner said:
My thoughts exactly. Getting upset about it one way or another isn't going to make it go away.
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No, ignoring it and giving up will ensure it won't go away. Enough backlash directed at the correct targets will get them to back off. No, that doesn't mean they'll back off forever but that's just life.

The irony is how much power gamers have at the moment and they don't even realize it. AAA gaming is in deep shit. Most of the games have been at best mediocre on average and many of the studios are in a shitton of debt with few prospects of turning things around. Enough complaints directed at them and they will back off due to the shape they are in. They don't have piles of cash laying around to live off of for a while after telling gamers to piss off. They've already been doing that for several years when being loaned money to push DEI type crap and that has put them in their current position and the money isn't going to keep flowing to them.

At this point they need to find away to make gamers happy to spend money on their products or they'll go bankrupt. We've already seen multiple companies who were previously titans being sold off. That trend along with bankruptcies will continue if they don't find a way to make sales and a lot of them.
 
SmokeRngs said:
No, ignoring it and giving up will ensure it won't go away. Enough backlash directed at the correct targets will get them to back off. No, that doesn't mean they'll back off forever but that's just life.
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Indeed. Protesting may sometimes shoot itself in the foot but apathy is how bad things are guaranteed to happen.
 
WilyKit said:
I just want to highlight this part of your post because I read it again and it literally made me laugh. We now have a new, copium powered term... "free artists"

So in order to be an actual (aka: free) artists, one has to be unemployed or self employed?
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Yes.
Because that is when you can do whatever you want without other people, company and design guidelines and managers messing with or interfering with your work.
Is this not correct?

And I really don't understand the use of the word "copium" here, why do you infer that I am some sort of Nvidia shill or desparate to see them succeed with this?

I am only saying that I don't see this is as something to get very upset about or as an attack on artists, gamers have messed with the original visions of artists for more than 40 years now.
 
WilyKit said:
Destroying an artists vision… you and your friend keep saying this and all you’ve come up with is a cell shaded assassins creed. Which artist at UBI wanted to do that?

Btw, in case you weren’t aware, it’s looking more and more like you care.
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I'm guessing I'm the "friend" you are referring to. I never said anyone at UBI wanted to make a cell shaded Assassins Creed, I have no idea about whether or not that would be true, but I used it as an example of what would limit artistic freedom in a big company like UBI or EA.
Do you really believe the management of Ubisoft would let an artist decide that the next AC should have a cell shaded art style, because they are artists with a god given artistic freedom?
Of course not, they are first and foremost corporate employees hired to do a job, not 18th century painters.
 
SmokeRngs said:
The irony is how much power gamers have at the moment and they don't even realize it.
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That's because we've had 10 years of games journalists screeching that you are not allowed to criticize, just quietly ignore it if you don't like it they said. Think about the feelings of game developers they said.

They want gamers quiet because they know we are right.
 
Eivind68 said:
gamers have messed with the original visions of artists for more than 40 years now.
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Oh, no, no, no. Changing the original with a mod is not comparable to having no coherent vision at all. AI can't keep it together in a single scene, there is no way it will able to draw the same character the same way throughout a 100+ hour game.
 
Eivind68 said:
I'm guessing I'm the "friend" you are referring to. I never said anyone at UBI wanted to make a cell shaded Assassins Creed, I have no idea about whether or not that would be true, but I used it as an example of what would limit artistic freedom in a big company like UBI or EA.
Do you really believe the management of Ubisoft would let an artist decide that the next AC should have a cell shaded art style, because they are artists with a god given artistic freedom?
Of course not, they are first and foremost corporate employees hired to do a job, not 18th century painters.
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I fully expect dumb ideas to get shot down. As they should be to bring a better product to market. Again, by your logic, even commercial pilots are merely “pilots” since they can’t just take their 737 anywhere they please.
 
mullet said:
A pilot is a pilot no matter where he goes because he is certified, just because he is certified doesn't mean he can just flying where ever he wants, unless he owns the company and the planes.
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“Generative AI in Gaming Is Here, but Facing Pushback From Gamers — and Developers​

Gamers are rebelling over the use of generative AI in the games they play, especially when it isn't disclosed. That makes it tricky to use, whether to whip up code and art while making games or in player-facing materials like generating nonplayer character dialogue in real time in response to your choices.

Back in January, planners for the Game Developers Conference released their annual state of the games industry report for 2026, in which 52% of respondents reported that generative AI was used at their company, though only 36% said they're using it as part of their jobs; some say it's optional, at least for now. They mostly use the technology for research and brainstorming (81% of respondents), writing emails and scheduling (47%), or for code assistance (47%), among other tasks. But developers themselves are increasingly skeptical of generative AI, with 52% responding that it's bad for the industry -- up from 30% last year.“

https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/generative-ai-gaming-pushback/
 
mullet said:
You can be an artist working for a company sure but it isn't the artist vision it's the person that employees thems vision. So when people that you are destroying the artist vision that's not 100% correct unless the artist owns the company.
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The point is that it is no one's vision because generative AI is incapable of holding to a coherent vision. So unless the vision is that the game and its NPCs will look slightly different in every scene this isn't anyone's vision. It doesn't matter who is employed by whom, because with generative AI the final say is always with the AI. The businessmen and techbros leading the AI charge might not even understand how it works, although it's far more likely that they are just lying to prop up the AI bubble.
 
The engineers at Nvidia must really be as blinded by the stock options as Jensen is. I understand his defense of what is clearly AI slop. Its his job... as CEO and as the companies largest private shareholder. lol

I guess this is what happens when you pay all your top engineers in stock. They can just fail to see how bad something is if it scratches the stock go up itch.
 
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mullet said:
I agree with what you are saying if there is NO on and off switch. As long as it is an OPTION I don't see this as an issue. IMO
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Problem with that thought, is the developers are not going to spend effort on two ways to implement graphics. It might start as an option but if there is enough cards out there that can run the AI slop option than that's what they will switch to and you won't get a choice. Most developers will pick the cheapest option.
 
Gideon said:
Problem with that thought, is the developers are not going to spend effort on two ways to implement graphics. It might start as an option but if there is enough cards out there that can run the AI slop option than that's what they will switch to and you won't get a choice. Most developers will pick the cheapest option.
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Most developers, but not all. I can see the big AAA game devs adopting this, but AAA gaming itself has already been slop long before DLSS 5. There will always be based AA and indie devs who are completely against any form of Gen AI in their games and will not force DLSS 5 on us. And their games are typically way better than any AAA slop anyways.
 
mullet said:
I can see that happening, I personally think people will pass on that game that does that. I like RT but I rarely turn it on, if there was no on/off switch I would just pass on the game.
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Then you already understand the issue. We now have games with only RT lighting. By the looks of it we will get AI only games soon enough.
Publishers are looking to save money with this tech, not double their work load.

It took about what 5 years maybe 6, from Gen 1 RT hardware to games requiring RT. Considering the length of development on a AAA title. That means developers at the gen 1 point decided to drop support for raster light maps.

The same will happen here I'm sure. 5 years out from now we will probably start seeing games shipping with AI slop mode only. The you have a choice stuff only lasts for about as long as a AAA games development cycle. 5 years or so.

I think you are also pointing out why this should bother you as well. You already say you don't turn RT on but like it. WHY don't you turn it on? Probably cause you don't want to game at 60fps when you can game at 120fps right? The tech debt on this tech is going to be higher. Does this look so great you are going to game at 60fps with it on instead of 120fps with it off? Maybe. But what happens when the OFF mode is LOW resolution and crap. No developers are going to bother with traditional Ultra graphics settings. WHY? The new ultra will be "up scaling" the quality from Low to Instagram.

That is what this is. DLSS was upscale for low res to high res.
This is DLSS upscale for LOW quality to high. NO RT, NO High textures, No ambient occlusion or any of the other tech currently in use. Developers are going to develop plain jane barely lit scenes with basic geometry and basic textures. It will run at 600fps at 720p. Then you let DLSS slop it and upscale it to 4k for 30fps.
Eventually there will be no in between. You either play ugly mode PS2 Style graphics, or you play in AI Slopped super quality mode.
 
mullet said:
I can see that happening, I personally think people will pass on that game that does that. I like RT but I rarely turn it on, if there was no on/off switch I would just pass on the game.
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DLSS (upscaling) started out as optional, but devs started relying on it to get playable framerates, so now it is not optional even on higher end graphics cards. I think it set back graphics development significantly.

Same with RT, early games looked OK without it, but devs now rely on it so heavily that RT off looks terrible, worse than games already looked 10 years ago without RT, and they didn't need upscaling to run on even mid range hw.

If nvidia gets its way this will also turn into standard practice.
 
kac77 said:

Nvidia CEO Says He Gets Where The DLSS 5 Outrage Is Coming From: ‘I Don’t Love AI Slop Myself’​

By Ethan Gach
Jensen Huang tried again to defend one of the company's most unpopular initiatives
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““I think their perspective makes sense and I can see where they’re coming from, because I don’t love AI slop myself,” he told Lex Fridman in a new podcast episode published on March 23. “You know, all of the AI-generated content increasingly looks similar and they’re all beautiful and so I’m empathetic towards what they’re thinking.””, Jensen Huang


View: https://youtu.be/vif8NQcjVf0?si=6wHGHolouvGdqRrJ
 
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ChadD said:
Then you already understand the issue. We now have games with only RT lighting. By the looks of it we will get AI only games soon enough.
Publishers are looking to save money with this tech, not double their work load.

It took about what 5 years maybe 6, from Gen 1 RT hardware to games requiring RT. Considering the length of development on a AAA title. That means developers at the gen 1 point decided to drop support for raster light maps.

The same will happen here I'm sure. 5 years out from now we will probably start seeing games shipping with AI slop mode only. The you have a choice stuff only lasts for about as long as a AAA games development cycle. 5 years or so.

I think you are also pointing out why this should bother you as well. You already say you don't turn RT on but like it. WHY don't you turn it on? Probably cause you don't want to game at 60fps when you can game at 120fps right? The tech debt on this tech is going to be higher. Does this look so great you are going to game at 60fps with it on instead of 120fps with it off? Maybe. But what happens when the OFF mode is LOW resolution and crap. No developers are going to bother with traditional Ultra graphics settings. WHY? The new ultra will be "up scaling" the quality from Low to Instagram.

That is what this is. DLSS was upscale for low res to high res.
This is DLSS upscale for LOW quality to high. NO RT, NO High textures, No ambient occlusion or any of the other tech currently in use. Developers are going to develop plain jane barely lit scenes with basic geometry and basic textures. It will run at 600fps at 720p. Then you let DLSS slop it and upscale it to 4k for 30fps.
Eventually there will be no in between. You either play ugly mode PS2 Style graphics, or you play in AI Slopped super quality mode.
Click to expand...

So you think there will not be even a single developer who will not force feed us AI graphics? Not even this man?

1774303029820.png
 
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ChadD said:
No doubt AMD has their version of neural rendering in the wings.
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So we're going to get three versions of a official game.
The original raster version.
The AMD FSR version.
The Nvidia DLSS version.

AMD is going to be using different training data most likely.

It's just going to be weird along with the additional complexities of having to support both, devs might forgo AMD, as we've seen with crimson desert telling Intel users to f*** themselves and then doing a 180.

Also, does this mean no more remasters? And if there are remasters what does that even mean?
 
MistaSparkul said:
So you think there will not be even a single developer who will not force feed us AI graphics? Not even this man?

View attachment 793227
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They were among the first to use AI tools, so why wouldn't they? And what does it matter in the greater scheme if a few devs don't use it? There are still games that don't have ray tracing, that does not negate the general trend.
 
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